Towing capacities aren't realistic, completely unachievable

[backwater83]

New to this forum, but looking for advice. My truck is a 2014 F350 SRW. Stated fifth wheel capacity is 15,900. I'm looking to buy a 39 foot 5er that weighs in at 14,400 with a pin weight of 2900. No way I can tow that because my cargo capacity is 3113. Once I put me and a bucket of chicken in the cab, I'm over weight. Pisses me off. I saw that Ford increased their super duty towing capacities on their 18-19 models.

The listed fifth wheel towing on the '19 F350 is 21,000. Problem solved. Its only gonna cost me 70 thousand dollars to get a truck that can tow the 5'er I want. I went to the dealer and looked at the door sticker on the '19. Guess what the cargo capacity is... 3200 pounds. What the holy hell! That's the same as I have now!! the '19 wont pull the camper either.

So I did some research. There isn't a 5th wheel out there over 14,000 lbs that has a tongue weight less than 2800 pounds. There is NO WAY the '19 truck with a listed 5th wheel cap can tow anywhere near the stated 21,000 pounds. ****, why not give it a 50k tow rating? 21,000 is just a meaningless arbitrary number that you'll never EVER be able to tow and stay in your weight rating!

I DO NOT want to buy a DRW truck. I put 50k miles on per year without towing, so yeah, it's a daily driver.

This is serious false advertising.

What do I do here? I'm trying to do things right but I feel like I'm going to have to tow overloaded just like the 70 percent of other people out there who I laugh at for towing WAY too much weight.

[troubledwaters]

sayoung wrote:

troubledwaters wrote:
If your in an accident and someone decides to sue you, whether you were towing 10,000 lbs or 12,000 lbs is never going to come up in the discussion. It's not realistic to try and prove to a jury (who knows nothing about towing, weights, or why it matters) how much the rear axle of the truck weighed at the scene of the accident 3 years ago, rather then you simply failed to stop in time.

My attorney would use that info to convince the jury you overloaded on purpose just to injure someone for enjoyment. There are some pretty good attorneys out there makeing a boat load of cash by using every tidbit of info that can remotely be added to the story of how negligent the defendent was. Civil suits are to the point the attorneys should have to belong to the Actors Guild as well as the Bar. I tell my Son this all the time as he is an Attorney.

So how is your attorney going to prove what Anything weighed at the time of the crash. Cause unless he is out there at the scene of the crime and takes possession of both vehicles then and there, he can prove nothing. He doesn't know how much water was in the tanks, whether the pantry was full or empty, how much stuff was in the back of the truck, etc., etc., etc.

It makes for a good scare tactic, but show me one case in real life where a non-commercial RV was found liable and paid damages because they exceed vehicle manufacturer's specifications.

Ask your son the Attorney which case he would rather try and prove; he was exceeding the manufacturer's specifications or he failed to stop in time.

[sayoung]

troubledwaters wrote:
If your in an accident and someone decides to sue you, whether you were towing 10,000 lbs or 12,000 lbs is never going to come up in the discussion. It's not realistic to try and prove to a jury (who knows nothing about towing, weights, or why it matters) how much the rear axle of the truck weighed at the scene of the accident 3 years ago, rather then you simply failed to stop in time.

My attorney would use that info to convince the jury you overloaded on purpose just to injure someone for enjoyment. There are some pretty good attorneys out there makeing a boat load of cash by using every tidbit of info that can remotely be added to the story of how negligent the defendent was. Civil suits are to the point the attorneys should have to belong to the Actors Guild as well as the Bar. I tell my Son this all the time as he is an Attorney.

[troubledwaters]

If your in an accident and someone decides to sue you, whether you were towing 10,000 lbs or 12,000 lbs is never going to come up in the discussion. It's not realistic to try and prove to a jury (who knows nothing about towing, weights, or why it matters) how much the rear axle of the truck weighed at the scene of the accident 3 years ago, rather then you simply failed to stop in time.

[bucky]

I guess the good news here is that the OP doesn't seem to have bought the 5er yet. Could be worse.
Bojangles or Kentucky Fried?

[rhagfo]

memtb wrote:


backwater83, We have a similar issue.....do not want a DRW. For our use of a truck, a DRW is very impractical. Our only use would be for towing.

Our5th wheel is at or slightly above (depending upon what we’re carrying) 20K pounds, with over 4K pin weight....and tow with our 2007 Ram SRW. And “”NO” our rig it doesn’t comply with the “little yellow sticker”. We have Firestone Air Bag system to maintain a level ride height. But, most importantly.....we put on aftermarket wheels and tires. We bought 19.5” steel wheels manufactured right here in America by Riskson Wheel Manufacturing. They even have the proper offset for your particular vehicle....something not offered by the import wheels. Check out their website!! As we use our truck for off-road use, winter driving, ect. , we chose Hankook DH 07 tires all the way around. With two winters of ice, snow, and mud.....they’ve done about all you can ask! While the wheels/tires are not cheap....far less than $60 - $70 K for a new, unwanted truck!!!

Our Ram axle is rated plenty high enough for the weight, the tires/wheels were the problem. The Rickson Wheels and the Hankooks, brought us real close to 4K pounds each......the wheels are rated at 5K pounds each, the tires @3940 # each!

Well would not want to be in your shoes if involved in an accident! TV with a GVWR of 10,100# trying to carry a 20,000# 5er with a 4,000# pin. Based on my numbers from our old 2500, you are likely at near 12,000# on the TV, and close to 7,500# on the rear axle. This is on ratings of 10,100# GVWR and a 6,200# rear axle rating. Sure the axle manufacture likely rates the axle at 9,000#+. I would not want to up against a good personal injury lawyer even if not cited in an accident.

[mtofell1]

backwater83 wrote:
New to this forum,

It seems as though you think you're the first one to realize the way this game of advertising from the manufacturers works. Many of us have been at this for years and know exactly how the game is played. It's like anything in life. Reading the fine print is on you. They are not technically lying with the numbers they advertise. It is "possible" to tow what they state. Granted, VERY unlikely unless you travel with nothing other than a cup of coffee in your hand and an empty truck but it is still possible to attain the weights they brag about.

My biggest revelation with towing came when I realized there are two numbers for every truck. What can it carry? (people/stuff in the truck and bed, hitch weight of trailer, pin weight of 5ver, etc.). What can it pull? (total weight of truck, trailer and everything in both. These are two totally different things and manufacturers often get hung up on bragging about just one.

[memtb]

Walaby wrote:
If you fixate on cargo capacity as the limiting factor, then yes, you likely will not be able to ever tow a 14,400lb 5er.

You have to decide for yourself how much weight/risk you put on exceeding cargo capacity vs rear axle weight.

I have a 1 ton Ram diesel. Cargo capacity is 3600(ish) if I recall. RGAWR is 7000lbs. I am currently towing a 5er that loaded, weights 13,500(ish I think,. going off memory). Pin weight is 3060(again memory). Loaded up, ready to camp, I exceed my cargo capacity by 20 lbs (so, maybe a couple buckets of chicken, and some ribs too probably), but am about 400 under my RGAWR. I have no issues with this, although there are some on here that will tell you (a) your truck will self destruct as soon as you put a pound over cargo capacity in it and/or (b) by exceeding payload by a pound you are going to put everyone, including all the leaders in the free world, in jeopardy, the minute you pull out of the driveway.

I subscribe the the RGAWR crowd, but you have to make your own decision based on a reasonable evaluation of the facts and your judgement.

Mike

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If you consider the load to be excessive for your specific vehicle.....there are options to safely upgrade your towing/load capacity. However, in doing so you will be in violation of the “Yellow Sticker”, a “happy to litigate” attorney, and our local “weight police”!

[Walaby]

If you fixate on cargo capacity as the limiting factor, then yes, you likely will not be able to ever tow a 14,400lb 5er.

You have to decide for yourself how much weight/risk you put on exceeding cargo capacity vs rear axle weight.

I have a 1 ton Ram diesel. Cargo capacity is 3600(ish) if I recall. RGAWR is 7000lbs. I am currently towing a 5er that loaded, weights 13,500(ish I think,. going off memory). Pin weight is 3060(again memory). Loaded up, ready to camp, I exceed my cargo capacity by 20 lbs (so, maybe a couple buckets of chicken, and some ribs too probably), but am about 400 under my RGAWR. I have no issues with this, although there are some on here that will tell you (a) your truck will self destruct as soon as you put a pound over cargo capacity in it and/or (b) by exceeding payload by a pound you are going to put everyone, including all the leaders in the free world, in jeopardy, the minute you pull out of the driveway.

I subscribe the the RGAWR crowd, but you have to make your own decision based on a reasonable evaluation of the facts and your judgement.

Mike

[kaydeejay]

time2roll wrote:

backwater83 wrote:
New to this forum, but looking for advice. My truck is a 2014 F350 SRW. Stated fifth wheel capacity is 15,900. I'm looking to buy a 39 foot 5er that weighs in at 14,400 with a pin weight of 2900. No way I can tow that because my cargo capacity is 3113.

What is the trailer GVWR?

Otherwise to hit 15,900 you need a base model truck and probably a flatbed trailer where you can adjust the load over the axle just right to keep the pin weight in spec.

You can blame the truck manufacturer all you want but the issue is really with the trailer manufacturer not designing specifically to the truck specs. (your truck)

The one thing everyone here appears to be missing is the word "Maximum". All Manufacturers quote capacity based on a base level truck with minimum equipment. They have no idea how you are going to configure your truck when you buy it, so the tow capacity and carrying capacity numbers WILL change when you spec out a loaded 4WD crew cab diesel.
Carrying capacity WILL get you when looking at big fifth wheels.
As a consumer you have to accept the responsibility to work with the numbers you end up with.
The trailer manufacturers DO NOT have to "build to the truck specs". They build to what the market is demanding. If you don't want a dually, or even a 450, then that is your decision, not theirs. Again, it is the buyers responsibility to match the truck and trailer capabilities.
To the OP, you are looking to buy a trailer that WILL exceed your truck's capacity. Tell me how the trailer Manufacturer would know that!! You have two choices - a lighter trailer or a new truck!
At the top end of the scale, some people opt to tow with a Medium Duty Truck. Are you suggesting the trailer Manufacturers should not build units suitable for that?

[time2roll]

backwater83 wrote:
New to this forum, but looking for advice. My truck is a 2014 F350 SRW. Stated fifth wheel capacity is 15,900. I'm looking to buy a 39 foot 5er that weighs in at 14,400 with a pin weight of 2900. No way I can tow that because my cargo capacity is 3113.

What is the trailer GVWR?

Otherwise to hit 15,900 you need a base model truck and probably a flatbed trailer where you can adjust the load over the axle just right to keep the pin weight in spec.

You can blame the truck manufacturer all you want but the issue is really with the trailer manufacturer not designing specifically to the truck specs. (your truck)

[topjimmy]

Just got off the road a year ago after 8 years of fulltiming all of them towing with a Dually and yes they are more stable and yes they are the perfect tool for the Job for heavy 5er's and I was never overloaded But now I am just a "vacationer" and sold the Dually for my current SRW short bed and loving it and do not miss that Big Butt turning radius of a stretch Limo Dually AT ALL my current rig tows the 5er Good and me and my wife love driving it anywhere so my point is are you going on long trips?? are you fulltiming?? it if not like I said RELAX your are good to go:)

[memtb]

Cummins12V98, Everything has it’s limitations....even the DRW’s. It is the drivers responsibility to access the situation and determine the best option. If in the scenario provided, I suspect the outcome would not be substantially different. Sometimes impact “trumps” an evasive maneuver! That vast majority of fatalities here, involve vehicle rollovers, by leaving the roadway....often including overcorrection. As stated, “evaluate the situation”....adjust accordingly!

[ACZL]

memtb wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Sad when people think "my rear axle is rated to carry XYZ so all I need is bags and 19.5's"

Sorry but there is much mort to it than that!

But hey it tows just fine!

Yes it does! 🙂 Please elaborate, on your statement!

Both Cummins and my post answer your question I feel.

[laknox]

backwater83 wrote:
My issue is with the truck manufacturers advertised towing capacity. That number is completely unattainable based on cargo weights being so low. Use the 21,000 lb number for example. The cargo weight is 3200 pounds. There are NO trailers that weigh anywhere near 21000 pounds that wouldn't overload the cargo cap, so you'd never be able to tow what the manufacturer boasts, the manufacturers are misleading consumers big time. Just annoying.

Well, I've got a 21k GVW gooseneck trailer and I can load it so the rear of my 3/4t truck comes off the ground. Do I do that? No, but I =do= watch my load placement and the squat on my truck so I don't overload the rear end and tires. With a FW, you just don't have that option. BTW, I towed that GN with a small tractor on it from N of Bakersfield to PHX without an issue. Was I over my CGVW? You betcha; by a lot! Did I ever feel uncomfortable? Only from the surface of I-5 and 215. :B

Lyle

[Cummins12V98]

memtb wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Sad when people think "my rear axle is rated to carry XYZ so all I need is bags and 19.5's"

Sorry but there is much mort to it than that!

But hey it tows just fine!

Yes it does! 🙂 Please elaborate, on your statement!

Tows just fine, I am sure it does. Let's say you are trying to avoid an accident or on a 6% downhill grade and someone cuts you off and you have to make an evasive maneuver the SRW configuration will NOT compare to a DRW plain and simple.

Big question is can the modded truck "HANDLE" the long and heavy RV???