Truck limit

[RickeyS1]

I still need help to understand what TV I need, looking at a Durango Gold fifth wheel unloaded weight of 12250 lbs, and GVWR of 14,995 lbs.
So my current truck is a 2018 Ram 2500, It has 6000 front axel and 6500 rear axel, 6.7 turbo diesel, door sticker says 2380 cargo capacity. I went to a cat scale with wife and dog & gear in truck and the front axel weight was 4980 & rear axel was 3300. So now the confusion if I go by the 10,000 then I only have cargo or pin weight available of 1720 lbs. But if you go by axel rating I would have 3200 lbs, I suspect I would need a Ram 3500 but not 100% sure, Help me understand this better please, the more I read the more confused I get. I understand where the axel ratings come from but why is payload limited to the 10,000 lb, where does that number come from? need to figure out what to do before buying the Durango.

Thanks,

[rhagfo]

Lantley wrote:

troubledwaters wrote:
CRSWine - still waiting for you to show me one lawsuit where exceeding the GVWR entered into the equation for liability. Been about 6 months now and I'm still waiting. Until then it's just a lotta hyperbole - could cause this, could result in that.

You are correct . But if the plaintiffs lawyer realized you were exceeding your GVW do you think they would use it against you? Hyperbole or not it would be a liability if you were in civil court.
There are civil court trials everyday all across America it would be naive to believe the issue has NEVER surfaced.

If you are at fault doesn’t matter within or over GVWR or othe ratings they will likely go after you.
If not at fault they may try to go after you, because we all know it is never there fault!!! This is why I run a das camera, as a silent witness.

[Chiefcpo]

Try this site (hope it works). Short vid. that might help.
www.KEEPYOURDAYDREAM.COM

[Lantley]

troubledwaters wrote:
CRSWine - still waiting for you to show me one lawsuit where exceeding the GVWR entered into the equation for liability. Been about 6 months now and I'm still waiting. Until then it's just a lotta hyperbole - could cause this, could result in that.

You are correct . But if the plaintiffs lawyer realized you were exceeding your GVW do you think they would use it against you? Hyperbole or not it would be a liability if you were in civil court.
There are civil court trials everyday all across America it would be naive to believe the issue has NEVER surfaced.

[joebedford]

My thinking parallels CWSWine's

[troubledwaters]

CRSWine - still waiting for you to show me one lawsuit where exceeding the GVWR entered into the equation for liability. Been about 6 months now and I'm still waiting. Until then it's just a lotta hyperbole - could cause this, could result in that.

[camperfamily]

Concerning your new truck. Seriously consider the DRW if this is your dedicated TV. We went from a 30' to a 36' 5th witha SRW (Ford, not RAM). Increase in weight about 3k as well. It actually rides nicer (smoother), BUT you can feel the cross winds more. I think a DRW would eliminate that. Drive both. I did and went SRW because its my DD in the suburbs outside NYC. I just don't want to deal with it unless necessary. FWIW.

[CWSWine]

This is how I come to my conclusion or not exceeding GVWR.

Here is what it says in the owner manual and tow guides.

“Note:
Trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight should be 10% (15% for 5th-wheel towing) of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by option weight) will accommodate trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle. Addition of trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo must not cause vehicle weights to exceed rear GAWR or GVWR. These ratings can be found on the vehicle Federal Safety Compliance Certification Label.”

—OR—
Just take the word or a few very active posters that the factory information is incorrect and you can ignore manufactures GVWR but you should honor the manufactures GAWR which both are listed on the Federal Safety Compliance Certification.
Link
Towing Guides

Next I contacted GMC Commercial Sales and ask about exceeding GVWR and loaded to GAWR and they sent me this link and this is the GMC official position.
Understanding GVWR

I believe that it is very slim chance that you going to get ticketed for being over your trucks GVWR of even the GAWR/GCWR/tire ratings. My research turned to the legal side started at the link below.

“Towing in excess of the vehicle manufactures’s weight limits could not only prove dangerous but could be considered negligent In the event of an accident with an overweight personal vehicle, you could be held responsible for higher awards in a lawsuit for damages to other people, vehicles or property.”
RVer Personal Liabilities

Still not total convinced I made an appointment with my trusted family lawyer and he explained how manufactures specs on all kinds of products are used in civil court to gain higher awards and there doesn’t have to be a law prohibiting exceeding manufacture specs to play a role in court. The other question you might want to ask is what happens if a lawsuit exceeds my limits on my insurance policy and how to protect yourself. That question can’t be answered unless someone knows what assets would be exposed and what’s your income level. That was an eye opening meeting.

This is where my research led me and now I’m going to called the weight police and attacked. Your research may lead you in a different conclusion. Everything in life has risk but you have decided if the rewards are worth the risk. In my case towing above GVWR was not worth the risk.

[RickeyS1]

So looking online for trucks, it appears that a Ram (3500 6.7L) SRW has a payload of 4070 pounds and fifth wheel towing of 17020 pounds would fit the bill.

Thanks,
Rick

[RickeyS1]

Thanks everyone, I think that I'll be trading the truck in, Just need to find the right one now, I would rather stay away from a dually if possible, although it would only be used as a tow vehicle, wife has a car and I have a small car for travel to and from work. Decisions - Decisions. But want to be safe first and foremost.

Thanks again
Rick

[ford_truck_guy]

I think ANY 1 of the big 3, newer generation 3500 SRW's will do that job..

[goducks10]

If this is the one you're looking at then it's way way too much for a 3/4 ton truck. Like mentioned above I think it's more suitable for a DRW.
https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2018-Kz-Rv-Durango-%C2%AE-Gold-G384RLT-5000263693

[Old-Biscuit]

10,000 GVWR for truck is so it stays in CLASS 2 weight rating

It is for MFG warranty & Vehicle registration issues
Payload is based on that GVWR so it is also arbitrary
None of the above are DOT legal issues


Axle/Tire Load Ratings ARE DOT Legal issues

Stay AT or Under the axle/tire ratings and good to go


15,000# 5vr GVWR using 22% pin weight ratio results in 3300# WET Pin weight
You will be at/close to RAWR.....depending on how much you load into 5th wheel


I tow based on DOT Legal limits.......Axle Rate/Tire Load Ratings.

[Poppy_s_5th_Whe]

You've opened yourself to a huge variety of answers but still a great question. There are towing guides online that I would trust more than everyone's personal opinions and "feelings", like I tow my 15,000 lb trailer with my F150 and I can't even tell it's back there.

All that said, first, I'd stick to the door tag. If your trucks door tag states you have a payload capacity of 2380, that's what I go by.

Second, always use the GVWR to estimate your pin weight (short of a true weighing). Using a rough guide of 20% of trailer weight that trailer will have 3,000 lbs on the pin. My trailer runs nearly 23% of GVW so it can definitely vary.

My trailer weighs (Cat Scales) right at 13,500 lbs. My pin is just short of 3,200. I'm close with my 2016 Denali 3500 SRW with a door tag payload capacity of 3569 .

I would go to a 1 ton if I were you. Good luck with your decision.

[laknox]

RickeyS1 wrote:
I still need help to understand what TV I need, looking at a Durango Gold fifth wheel unloaded weight of 12250 lbs, and GVWR of 14,995 lbs.
So my current truck is a 2018 Ram 2500, It has 6000 front axel and 6500 rear axel, 6.7 turbo diesel, door sticker says 2380 cargo capacity. I went to a cat scale with wife and dog & gear in truck and the front axel weight was 4980 & rear axel was 3300. So now the confusion if I go by the 10,000 then I only have cargo or pin weight available of 1720 lbs. But if you go by axel rating I would have 3200 lbs, I suspect I would need a Ram 3500 but not 100% sure, Help me understand this better please, the more I read the more confused I get. I understand where the axel ratings come from but why is payload limited to the 10,000 lb, where does that number come from? need to figure out what to do before buying the Durango.

Thanks,

Rule of thumb is 20-25% of the GVW as max pin wt. Taking a ballpark of 22.5% that gives you almost 3400 on the pin, AT GVW. Since you =should= prepare for a worst-case scenario, I'd say that you're well under-trucked for that FW. Are any of the 2500, or even 1500, model lines that would fill the bill for you and fit your truck better? This being said, you're also likely to find a lot of late-model 2500s pulling that weight FW with no problems. So long as you're within your =tire= ratings, I'd say you could do it. Might need some help on the rear end; Timbrens, extra helper spring, bags, etc. That rear-end is likely the same as on a 3500, minus a leaf or two, and, probably, smaller brakes.

Lyle

[jkwilson]

The 10,000 is a made up number. But with 14,995lb trailer weight you want a 3500 DRW IMO. 3200lbs is only around 21% of the loaded trailer weight.