Weight Ratings and CC Silverback

[GReeves]

Hello all, first post here. I am making myself go crosseyed trying to figure out if I will be safe towing with the wheel/tire setup on my truck. Currently, I have a 2016 Duramax 2500HD CCSB with the 10,000# GVWR option, the truck has been leveled with 22x10 American Force forged aluminum wheels with a 3500-lb weight rating per wheel. Currently have 33x12.50 Toyo OpenCountry M/T's which I know are only rated for 2270-lbs per tire, severely reducing my cargo capacity. I am looking at putting on 285/55r22 Nitto RidgeGrappler which are rated for 3525-lbs per tire....this effectively means I could put 7K on the rear axle, limited by the wheels. Truck is around 3500-lbs on the rear axle with the hitch and fuel and myself. Does anyone have a real world hitch weight for a 2012 Cedar Creek Silverback 33REA by chance??? I know 20-25% of the GVW is the norm for a fifth wheel but I have a hard time believing that this camper will have a hitch weight around 3500-lbs(25% of 13,850-lbs). Dry hitch weight is listed at 1850-lbs. Currently, my dad tows this camper with his 2011 F-250 CCSB with 20x9 XD Badlands (3200-lb weight rating) with 35x12.50r20 Toyo OpenCountry AT-2's (3200-lb weight rating) and I don't see an F-250 and a 2500HD differing in weight by too much but maybe I am wrong. He has offered to sell me his camper for payoff and I really don't want to pass this deal up since it would be a steal for me

[JIMNLIN]

GR wrote:
I am looking at putting on 285/55r22 Nitto RidgeGrappler which are rated for 3525-lbs per tire....this effectively means I could put 7K on the rear axle, limited by the wheels.

You have 2 severe safety problems here with those P class tires.
One is those P rated tires 3525 capacity tires are required by fed regs to be derated by dividing its capacity by 1.1....which means now they have just 3200 lbs capacity. A better/safer idea is to go with 20" wheels and a 20" LT E tires. GM has them as a option on 2500 trucks
.
The other is those are a P class tire and not good with those two thin sidewalls on the load carrying vehicle like your 2500 truck. You have severally derated the trucks ability to SAFELY carry weight with those passenger tires.

I'm not of the weight police from this forum so as long as you stay under your 2500 GM trucks 6200 lb axle ratings your good to go on the 13xxx GVWR trailer.
Once actual scaled weights are established and your over on the 6200 RAWR (drive axle rating) then is the time to upgrade to 3750 lb LT E class tires....proper 3500 lb rated truck wheels and maybe air bags if the rear sags to much.

Gets some proper load carrying LT E tires on your truck for safety reasons.

[ependydad]

GReeves wrote:
10-4, I will try to catch him on days off of work and we can take both my truck and his truck/camper. Even if for some crazy reason my truck tipped the scale at 8900 gross with the hitch in the bed, with the camper fully loaded to it’s capacity I would still be well under the GCWR by around 2000-lbs. And I agree with what you’re saying, not too concerned about “payload”, I’m more concerned with what the axle can handle. Like I said, if I put the tires on that I’m looking at, then the axle becomes the weak link by 300 pounds

Agreed, go weigh it!

Here's how:
http://learntorv.com/how-to-weigh-a-fifth-wheel-camper-at-cat-scales/

[GReeves]

We ditched the slider hitch about a year ago, have an Anderson style now and I don’t think the hitch even weighs 150 pounds, maybe 100. I believe the max pin weight my truck is rated for is 3500 pounds. I’m headed to scale right now to weigh my truck, try to get dads truck and camper over there soon but depending on what the CAT scale spits me out, I may not even worry about it

[4x4ord]

I would never buy or recomend a 3/4 ton diesel to anyone but if I had a 3/4 ton I would forget the scale and just enjoy the truck. If your rear springs are not up to the task of carrying the trailer (ie your headlights are pointing at the moon) add air bags.

[jrs1871]

Old-Biscuit was spot on; weigh your dad's truck and camper to find out what the real pin weight is. We tow a 2013 Cedar Creek 30RL with a 2010 Chevy Duramax 2500. Our actual pin weight, loaded and ready roll is 2,850 and trailer gross weight is 12,900.
We know we are close to the limits on our setup so we are careful that we don't have everything but the kitchen sink in the storage compartments. Also we switched to an Anderson hitch before our last trip. Besides being easy to get in and out of the truck, it saves us 100+ pounds in capacity.
Ultimately you will be the one making the decision. I am just pointing out that you can safely, and within specs, tow with a 2500.

[ACZL]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
This guy had ZERO knowledge of how heavy he was or if he was over his tires max carrying capacity as I am sure he was.

Dealer said I can tow anything!

[Cummins12V98]

This guy had ZERO knowledge of how heavy he was or if he was over his tires max carrying capacity as I am sure he was.

[racer4]

OP,

Those tires are taller than stock. You should figure out your truck's bed height, and thus the FW hitch height, to figure out if the trailer will be nose high when hooked up. The more nose high it is, the more weight on the trailer's rear axle.

Trucks that are higher than stock can be difficult to properly tow a FW trailer with. Some of the posters above said more or less the same thing.

[GReeves]

10-4, I will try to catch him on days off of work and we can take both my truck and his truck/camper. Even if for some crazy reason my truck tipped the scale at 8900 gross with the hitch in the bed, with the camper fully loaded to it’s capacity I would still be well under the GCWR by around 2000-lbs. And I agree with what you’re saying, not too concerned about “payload”, I’m more concerned with what the axle can handle. Like I said, if I put the tires on that I’m looking at, then the axle becomes the weak link by 300 pounds

[Old-Biscuit]

You are asking for 'real world weights' on that 5th wheel........which your Dad owns and twos with his F250

So take it to the scales and weigh it.....question answered.


I tow a 13,873# 5th wheel (actual scaled weight) and the pin is 3080#
Puts me right at trucks RAWR and under Rear Tire Max Load Ratings

Your 2016 2500 is similar in 'ratings' to my 2007 3500 SRW
Change those Rear Tires so tires are higher load rating then trucks Rear Axle.
And just go weigh your Dad RV to get the real world numbers
(You will be over trucks GVWR/Payload but that is NOT an issue.stay at/under RAWR/Rear Tire Load Ratings......go camping!)

[eHoefler]

Just because the wheels and tires are good for the weight, does not mean the frame, springs, cooling, etc.. If your bigger than stock diameter on the tires, you whould be figuring you capacities with the next higher gear ratio, which will definitly put you over your capacities. Bigger tires and lifts, I know nothing was mentioned about a lift, will cause leveling problems, which affect load balance weights, etc.. Just a bad combonation from the get go.

[GReeves]

And just so I can relay this info to my dad as well, if I'm not mistaken, he is overloaded with his F-250 on his wheels/tires, correct? Being that his wheel/tire limits him to a max payload of 6400 lbs, figuring a 23% pin weight and assuming his trucks rear axle is somewhere between 3200-3500 empty with hitch in the bed

[GReeves]

My trucks rear axle is close to 3400 with me, full tank of fuel, toolbox, and hitch in bed. Hitch might be 150-lbs on a good day, its not heavy at all.

[Second_Chance]

GReeves wrote:
Well for one, some of us can’t afford to upsize in trucks and I can get this fifth wheel for a fraction of the price of a new one or even a nice used one. All I really want to know is if anyone had real world numbers for the hitch weight of a CC Silverback 33REA or comparable 5’er. I have basically already decided what I am going to do, and I understand that I will be “close” to the limits of a 3/4 ton, my truck as configured is rated to tow 13,900 and I know for a fact this camper doesn’t have 3,000-lbs of gear in it, so it’s well under 13,850-lbs. Just asking for simple opinions on hitch weight and tire rating to see if my math is correct before I put a hitch in and drag it to the scale

Using 23% of the GVWR of the Silverback 33REA, the pin weight will be around 3,185 lbs. loaded. Never use published pin weights as they are calculated by the engineers with absolutely nothing on board (no propane, nothing in the basement or bedroom, no water, etc.). 23% of the GVWR is a time-tested method and is usually within a couple of hundred pounds for most fifth wheel RVs. Add in another 150 lbs. for a hitch, and weigh your truck with full fuel and all occupants to calculate available payload/rear axle capacity.

Rob