What happens if you plug a 50 Amp RV into 22V welder plug

[jeepman71]

I am currious, if my rv were a 50amp system and I plug into a 220V welder or dryer outlet what will I find? What different circuits or equipment would likely be damaged?

Let's assume that this rv is a very late model like a 2012.

I don't have to worry because mine is only a 30amp.

[relaxin]

LostinAZ wrote:

Jim and Barb wrote:
RGordon is absoulty right! I have been an Industrial Maintenance Supervisor for 10 + years. All it is 220 single phase its only two 110 legs with a ground wire where it ties on a buss bar in the box that is also a tie point for your nuteral on a 110 v circut. The AMP rating is how much draw it it can handel while working 30 AMP is normal for a house.

What isn't being mentioned when we discuss two 110 V legs is they have to be out of phase to create 220V service. My understanding is that the 50 Amp service we hook into at RV Resort/Park pedestals, the two 110V 50 amp legs are not out of phase and therefore 220V is never present inside the RV.

WRONG!!!!
it is both hot legs, it has to be to only have one neutral and in electrical circuitry is referred to as a shared neutral, that in itself only carries the imbalanced load from the 2 hots

example hot #1 is carrying 10 amps, and hot#2 is carrying 15 amps, the neutral only carry's the difference of 5 amps

if you put both hots on one side of the service and lets say you draw on hot#1 35 amps, and hot # 2 you draw another 30 amps, with both hots on the same leg of the service you will have all the current combined on the neutral so 65 amps,,,, dam why is that wire getting so warm


The reason all the RV equipment is 120 volt is so the RV cam function when plugged into with an adapter a 30 amp outlet, the manufacturers realized early on when 50 amp was introduced that it would be a long time before a majority of parks have 50 amp outlets, so most of the time your 220v equipment would never be able to use if you only came across parks with 30 amp

[sdetweil]

RCMAN, I will now use some testing/isolation device on every hookup.

I purchased the Progressive SSP-50 surge suppressor and circuit tester.
it specifically tests for open ground and neutral. I will not plug the trailer into my new circuit until I get the tester, and it says all is good. One time is enough. Only thing not tested yet is the A/C units.
Everything else is working ok

[sdetweil]

john&bet wrote:

sdetweil wrote:
while not on topic, this incident has made me take a close look at both my subpanels, and both are a mess. ground and neutrals mixed, one enclosure not even grounded.. fun things to fix!

only thing I don't understand, sub panel using plastic conduit,
master has ground/neutral bonded. sub not bonded.

if the conduit had been metal, the sub panel would have inherited the bonding.

what can/am I supposed to do about this?
bond at the sub (no/no)
leave unbonded (maybe?)

Bonding refers to the ground(green/bare and neutral/white) being tied together in the panel such as a jumper from the neutral bar to the panel metal or a wire from the neutral bar to the green bar. Metal conduit does not do this, it will only act as a equipment ground(green/bare) and no ties to the neutral. In your sub panels the green/bares and neutral/whites need to be on separate bars. Hope this helps.

helps, and thanks RCMAN.. (even in the text of this topic, the question/answers are conflicting. There is an 'assumption' by some, that a 'welder circuit' has a neutral. which it normally doesn't).
I have never seen a 220 circuit with a neutral except a dryer, which wants 110 for the electronics.

my subpanels will have them separated (one does, one doesn't as I type this, will be fixed later today).

[john_bet]

sdetweil wrote:
while not on topic, this incident has made me take a close look at both my subpanels, and both are a mess. ground and neutrals mixed, one enclosure not even grounded.. fun things to fix!

only thing I don't understand, sub panel using plastic conduit,
master has ground/neutral bonded. sub not bonded.

if the conduit had been metal, the sub panel would have inherited the bonding.

what can/am I supposed to do about this?
bond at the sub (no/no)
leave unbonded (maybe?)

Bonding refers to the ground(green/bare and neutral/white) being tied together in the panel such as a jumper from the neutral bar to the panel metal or a wire from the neutral bar to the green bar. Metal conduit does not do this, it will only act as a equipment ground(green/bare) and no ties to the neutral. In your sub panels the green/bares and neutral/whites need to be on separate bars. Hope this helps.

[RCMAN46]

Lets take it a little easy. Sdetweil was willing to tell us what happens if you connect to a 220 service with no neutral. Something that can happen to all of us that have 50 amp RV's and happen to connect to a source with an open neutral. Open neutrals are common in the power distribution system.
The RV if wired correctly will not have a connection between the neutral and ground. This will result in high voltages on the 110 gear depending on the impedance seen on each side of the 220. If one side is low impedance and the other is high the high side impedance can see as much as 200 plus volts. Then when that device fails it will become a low impedance and the other side will see high voltage. This will go on until most of the devices that are connected and turned on fail.
It is important to check out the park connection before connecting the RV. More so with the 50 amp connections due to the possible open neutral.

[time2roll]

I want to know how much effort was taken to make the 50 push into the 60.

[jdog]

sdetweil wrote:
Ok, I'm the guy that found out. RV 50 amp into 60 amp Welder service with no neutral..

big Pop when the A/C tried to come on. wish it was a circuit breaker.. no such luck.

something smells near the converter/breaker panel. not wire smell, electronics smell. maybe blown converter.

obviously the smaller ground couldn't take the load. maybe it will be a blown ground wire. (probably wishful thinking).

far as I can tell everything works (on 110 adapter to 50amp plug) except the fridge electric circuit. lights, fantastic fans, 110 outlets. haven't tried slides or leveler yet.

I will disconnect all power today and pull the breaker panel out to look at the wires behind.

diagnosis advice welcomed. will also run a separate 6/3 circuit.

You are a person with some loose screws! Why did you plug into a welding receptical?? That's what happens when you listen to people whom have no idea about what they are saying. You got what you deserved, a big burned up mess.

[ken_white]

smkettner wrote:
Only the main utility service meter panel and distribution should have a neutral ground bond.
Neutral and ground need to be kept separated in all subpanels including all RV panels.

Good advice, do not mix the two wires.

The neutral/return wire carries current while the ground wire is for safety and signal integrity (noise reduction) for connected equipment.

[time2roll]

Only the main utility service meter panel and distribution should have a neutral ground bond.
Neutral and ground need to be kept separated in all subpanels including all RV panels.

[sdetweil]

while not on topic, this incident has made me take a close look at both my subpanels, and both are a mess. ground and neutrals mixed, one enclosure not even grounded.. fun things to fix!

only thing I don't understand, sub panel using plastic conduit,
master has ground/neutral bonded. sub not bonded.

if the conduit had been metal, the sub panel would have inherited the bonding.

what can/am I supposed to do about this?
bond at the sub (no/no)
leave unbonded (maybe?)

[sdetweil]

Atom Ant wrote:

sdetweil wrote:

john&bet wrote:

jeepman71 wrote:
I am currious, if my rv were a 50amp system and I plug into a 220V welder or dryer outlet what will I find? What different circuits or equipment would likely be damaged?

Let's assume that this rv is a very late model like a 2012.

I don't have to worry because mine is only a 30amp.

DON'T DON'T do it unless it has 4 poles or hole in the outlet. YOU MUST have a NEUTRAL period.

right. this is 50 amp 110v service.. requires a neutral..

NOT 50 amp 220 service.

It IS 50A 220VAC service, just because the RV only happens to use 110V equipment, doesn't mean its not 50A 220VAC.

What you are saying is incorrect, as when limiting in term to only 110VAC, it actually produced 100A.

yes, you are correct.. it IS also 50 amp 220.
and also 50amp per leg 110vac service (total 100amp)

[ken_white]

smkettner wrote:

sdetweil wrote:
I have run a proper 6/3 with ground 50amp, 110v service line now, but given the problems, I am waiting for a circuit tester/surge suppressor to arrive to validate the circuit. (this tester will go with me from now on as I hear a lot about power pedestal issues).

If you attached to the proper double breaker there will be 240v between the hot leads. Your RV does not use the 240v but it must be wired this way to avoid overcurrent in the neutral.

The neutral actually keeps the transformer secondary voltages nearly constant (120 VAC) for varying loads and returns the current imbalance (difference) between the two 120 VAC branches.

[ken_white]

Atom Ant wrote:
It IS 50A 220VAC service, just because the RV only happens to use 110V equipment, doesn't mean its not 50A 220VAC.

What you are saying is incorrect, as when limiting in term to only 110VAC, it actually produced 100A.

Correct, but no more than 50 amps per branch...

[Atom_Ant]

sdetweil wrote:

john&bet wrote:

jeepman71 wrote:
I am currious, if my rv were a 50amp system and I plug into a 220V welder or dryer outlet what will I find? What different circuits or equipment would likely be damaged?

Let's assume that this rv is a very late model like a 2012.

I don't have to worry because mine is only a 30amp.

DON'T DON'T do it unless it has 4 poles or hole in the outlet. YOU MUST have a NEUTRAL period.

right. this is 50 amp 110v service.. requires a neutral..

NOT 50 amp 220 service.

It IS 50A 220VAC service, just because the RV only happens to use 110V equipment, doesn't mean its not 50A 220VAC.

What you are saying is incorrect, as when limiting in term to only 110VAC, it actually produced 100A.

[time2roll]

sdetweil wrote:
I have run a proper 6/3 with ground 50amp, 110v service line now, but given the problems, I am waiting for a circuit tester/surge suppressor to arrive to validate the circuit. (this tester will go with me from now on as I hear a lot about power pedestal issues).

If you attached to the proper double breaker there will be 240v between the hot leads. Your RV does not use the 240v but it must be wired this way to avoid overcurrent in the neutral.