Do I need a lawyer?

[frelsang]

I trade in my 08 Windsport to a brand new 2014 Winnebago last November, The pay off of the first loan is $75000, I had paid an extra $20,000 for the upside down pay off on the first loan during the purchase, The problem is the dealership never pay off my first loan, I've been making 2 RV monthly payment for the last 3 month, I called the dealer many times, they just keep lying to me saying it's in the process to be pay off in a week or two, but 3 months had passed, I am afraid if I don't do anything it's going to get drag on for as long as they pleased, my question is do I need a lawyer? or take the dealership to small claims court? Does this happen to many people or just happen to me?

[msmith1199]

UsualSuspect wrote:
x2 Dennis. I know a few DMV Investigators who are neighbors. They said most of their complaints come from DMV Clerks, not the public at large, and usually when it is someone from the public it is because they were referred from an Attorney, rarely does someone walk through the door or call. I hope that anyone in the future who runs across this thread takes the time to file a complaint with DMV, it will bite them where they don't want to be bitten.

Many of their complaints used to come from me. I was an investigator with the DA's Office. People would come to us with these types of complaints and I had the local DMV Investigators on speed dial. Most of the time we would refer them straight to DMV, and on bigger cases we would work with DMV. In fact I retired almost 2 1/2 years ago now, and my last active case just wrapped up a couple of months ago and it was a car dealer who did these exact things. It was a huge monster of a case but this guy was almost 100% fraudulent. Lots of people lost lots of money that they'll never see again. This dealer the OP is talking about is just fudging on the rules trying to squeeze out a few extra dollars from each deal and is likely not intending to steal all this money.

[msmith1199]

hardtobe wrote:

frelsang wrote:
Thanks to everyone's feedback and advice, I will contact DMV and BMV today
the dealership claim that they are the biggest in Southern California, I been
a very nice customer to them, but as soon as I signed the deal wrote them the check no one would answer my calls can't get any question answer. they know they don't need my business for the next many years, even the warranty work they know I could go to any Winnebago service dealer, the dealer name is McMahon Rv Westminster CA.

seeing as U have named the dealer(McMahon) I will come forward and tell you this happned to a friend of mine in 2011.Same deal kept getting interest charges from bank on a the vehicle he traded in
one month I believe in his case.
Its amazing that if this is as illeagl as suggested how these guys (McMahon)keep doing this year after year??obviously DMV don't do their job as well as smith suggests

Did your friend complain to DMV? They can't do anything if they don't know about it. And as I said, I personally have worked on quite a few occasions with California DMV Investigators, and they are stretched thin, but do a dang good job when it comes to things like this.

[UsualSuspect]

x2 Dennis. I know a few DMV Investigators who are neighbors. They said most of their complaints come from DMV Clerks, not the public at large, and usually when it is someone from the public it is because they were referred from an Attorney, rarely does someone walk through the door or call. I hope that anyone in the future who runs across this thread takes the time to file a complaint with DMV, it will bite them where they don't want to be bitten.

[Executive45]

hardtobe wrote:
obviously DMV don't do their job as well as smith suggests

California has the most and strictest consumer protection laws in the country, bar none. However, they also don't have enough people trying to enforce those laws.

Furthermore, too many folks expect businesses to do the "right" thing and these things drag out. The OP is a perfect example....he's already waited three months before coming here for advice....several folks on here suggested he continue this debacle by contacting the dealer and try to work it out, either through negotiations and/or threats...the DMV works on complaints. If everyone filed a complaint with them, they would act more quickly. One or two complaints a year against a dealer as large as McMahons is only a drop in the bucket. That they may be doing it as a regular business model is only relevant if they are investigated. That won't happen until and unless many more people file complaints. Read the "RipOff Reports"..only 8 reports and of those, only two for similar situations...

Asking why McMahon keeps getting away with this, is like asking why ALL speeders don't get tickets....:W....Dennis

[hardtobe]

frelsang wrote:
Thanks to everyone's feedback and advice, I will contact DMV and BMV today
the dealership claim that they are the biggest in Southern California, I been
a very nice customer to them, but as soon as I signed the deal wrote them the check no one would answer my calls can't get any question answer. they know they don't need my business for the next many years, even the warranty work they know I could go to any Winnebago service dealer, the dealer name is McMahon Rv Westminster CA.

seeing as U have named the dealer(McMahon) I will come forward and tell you this happned to a friend of mine in 2011.Same deal kept getting interest charges from bank on a the vehicle he traded in
one month I believe in his case.
Its amazing that if this is as illeagl as suggested how these guys (McMahon)keep doing this year after year??obviously DMV don't do their job as well as smith suggests

[UsualSuspect]

frelsang wrote:
Thank you Msmith1199 for your summary and thanks to Usualsuspect's link to DMV and many forum friend's great advise, I have already contact DMV investigator, I am going to DMV today to fill out the complaint form, boy, I am feeling much better now.

Your welcome. Let us know how it turns out, good luck.

[msmith1199]

frelsang wrote:
Thank you Msmith1199 for your summary and thanks to Usualsuspect's link to DMV and many forum friend's great advise, I have already contact DMV investigator, I am going to DMV today to fill out the complaint form, boy, I am feeling much better now.

You're welcome. I just looked at your original post again and I missed the first time around that you were still making the payments on the first loan. The dealer owes you that money back. What you should have done back then, and should do now, is not make any more payments on the loan on the previous motorhome. You need to call the lender on that loan and explain the situation to them and notify them that you won't be making any more payments. You could even ask them to refund the payments you did make since November and put that balance back on the loan so that the dealer has to pay the money directly to them.

[wa8yxm]

I used to have a friend who worked as an investigator for Michigan Secretary of State (DMV).

For a major dealer, Loss of license is a major kick in the pocket book.

Good luck, I suspect you actually won't need it but good luck.

[frelsang]

Thank you Msmith1199 for your summary and thanks to Usualsuspect's link to DMV and many forum friend's great advise, I have already contact DMV investigator, I am going to DMV today to fill out the complaint form, boy, I am feeling much better now.

[msmith1199]

You've got some good advice here and some bad advice so let me sort through it for you. For info, I'm a retired Investigator with a local prosecutors office as well as a former police detective and I have worked these very cases in California and I have worked with DMV investigators on these cases. First of all, you state this is one of the larger dealers in Southern California. That is a good thing as there is very little chance you are in danger of losing any money on this matter. They have a very large bond on file with DMV as well as their own business insurance otherwise DMV would have already shut them down. The small dealers that set up in old gas stations are the ones that give DMV the most problems with these types of situations as they don't keep their bond active and have been known to run up hundreds of thousands of dollars in fraud like this and then take off to another Country, or file BK. You likely don't have that worry with a big dealership.

What the dealer is doing is like somebody else already pointed out. He's hoping to turn your motorhome around and sell it and then use that money to pay off the loan. Otherwise, he has to pay off your loan with his existing line of credit and then he has to pay interest on that until he sells your motorhome. This practice is not legal. It's possible he has his credit line maxed out and maybe can't even pay the loan off.

At this point you do not need a lawyer nor do you need to contact the District Attorney or Attorney General. You can either opt to tell him you are going to DMV if he doesn't resolve this right now, or at this point you can go straight to DMV. I would be extremely surprised if DMV could not resolve this issue for you in very short order. There are other things that they may also chose to do based on your complaint. They have the right to go in at any time and inspect his books to see who else he is doing this too. DMV also has two types of enforcement powers on this dealer. They have administrative powers as well as criminal powers. From the Administrative side they can fine him and/or suspend or revoke his license. From the criminal end DMV has investigators that are peace officers. They can go in and arrest the dealer if that is what needs to be done, but odds are it will never get to that.

In the extremely unlikely event that DMV cannot resolve this issue for you, your next stop is the Consumer Fraud Unit of the Orange County District Attorney. They can initiate either a civil action or a criminal action. Bottom line, at this point, you DO NOT need to pay any money to a lawyer to resolve this. You pay a lot of tax money and now's your chance to use up some of it to have the government agencies you pay taxes for resolve it for you.

[11B]

A word to the wise on the BBB. It is a privately owned company with no teeth to rectify anything. It has also been my experience after owning my own company for over thirty years that if your company pays dues to them to be a member you get treated very liberal on the complaints your company receives.

Kind of like Car Fax. If the reporting repair shop and or dealer do not report to them on fixes and sales it's buyer beware.

[hardtobe]

frelsang wrote:
Thanks to all the reply I will keep everyone updated to how it will turn out, yes I paid an extra $20k I signed all the trade documents including release of the liability, they took my Windsport but I am still paying the monthly payment from the bank auto drawn, because they are not paying the loan off, I am gathering all my paper work now prepare for the DMV. The only upside to the deal is the Winnebago Forza sits in my drive way is a beauty.

did u never contact the bank involved and get some action from them? are they not responsible to make sure the loan is allocated to the correct vehicle to some degree??

[tropical36]

Reader1 wrote:
I would notify the dealer that you are contacting the DMV today as well as the State Attorney General's office and do it, don't let them talk you out of it. We bought a used van a long time ago, paid cash for it, and they would not send us the title. When I told them I was contacting the DMV and Ohio Attorney General's office, they overnighted it to us.

I agree, except for contacting the dealer first. This might help the OP, but doesn't help others and the overall situation. This company will still continue with this practice and only appease the wheels that squeal the loudest or at least for as long as he can and by that time, he will have created a lot of havoc.

[Greyghost]

I would notify the dealer that you are contacting the DMV today as well as the State Attorney General's office and do it, don't let them talk you out of it. We bought a used van a long time ago, paid cash for it, and they would not send us the title. When I told them I was contacting the DMV and Ohio Attorney General's office, they overnighted it to us.

Don't bother calling them. Contact the CA Attorney Generals office immediately. They will direct you to the appropriate people to make your complaint. Once you talk to the proper people they will get the ball rolling and contact the dealer. If all goes well you will get a call from the dealer before you are finished filling out the complaint.

I had a similar problem with a home builder in the late 70's. Contacted the Contractors Licensing Board and the builder was on site the next day. I never officially made a complaint, the state rep got the ball rolling. Don't waste any more time calling the dealer. Take action now!

[Reader1]

I would notify the dealer that you are contacting the DMV today as well as the State Attorney General's office and do it, don't let them talk you out of it. We bought a used van a long time ago, paid cash for it, and they would not send us the title. When I told them I was contacting the DMV and Ohio Attorney General's office, they overnighted it to us.