Gas engine vs. Gas engine (not diesel)

[Winnipeg]

I know the debate over gas vs. diesel has been done MANY times, and most agree that diesel is "better", but more $$$$.

We were ready to trade our 10 year old Winnebago Class C to move to a Class A. Our budget was low $100k range, so although new diesel pushers were tempting, they are beyond our budget. And, we were not interested in a 10 to 15 year old DP. So, our options were new Class A gas or maybe a Class B Sprinter type. The Sprinters were too small.

My big concern was, how much of a dog would a Class A gas unit be? Its basically the same power train (Ford V10) as on the Class C and MUCH heavier. I guess the old rig loaded up (with towed) was about 17,000 pounds GCVW and the new about 24,000. That's a big increase!

The only difference in the drive train (that I know of) is that the Class A chassis get an extra valve in each cylinder and Ford has upgraded the transmission from 5-speed to 6-speed. I thought I would HATE going up mountains (Southern California).

Much to my delight, the new unit performs about the same as the old one, even with so much more weight to move. I am sure it burns more fuel, but I don't track that. An added bonus is that while the old unit had a somewhat unpleasant roar when working, the new one has a deeper rumble to it.

I am sure there are other differences, but overall, I am very happy that the new V10 does a lot more work than the old V10.

[wa8yxm]

Well when my Wife and I bought our Class A we obeyed the old GM Television commercials from the 60's (See the U S A in your Chevrolet... powered Motor home) Ok so we modified it a bit.

Chevy Vortec V-8.. Very very clost to the ford V-10 in HP and torque Allison I think mine is a 5 speed with overdrive.

No complaints on handling.. Only have a couple places where I have to "Slow down" and usually I slow down not because of the steepness of the hill but .. .Well there is a "Basic Speed Limit" you must absolutly MUST not violate

Go no faster than the Semi in front of you .

[TropicalRV]

I've had a 2001 F53 with the old 2 valve engine and 4 speed tranny for 15 years and now a 2015 F53 with the 3 valve engine and 5 speed tranny. They both got me to where I was going. The differences that people talk about here are more subtle than you think. Just go for it and enjoy the experience.

[Yellowboat_]

I traded my 2005 5 speed chassis for a 2016 6 speed chassis. Change in performance is night and day. My 2016 is much quieter and white knuckle driving is greatly reduced. Narrow lanes and construction zones are no longer high stress areas.

JD

[willald]

There is a huge difference between the V10s in the E450 chassis and the F53 chassis. Look at the specs on each one - the difference in both horsepower and torque is significant.

The difference is not just because of the extra valve per cylinder. Ford puts a different intake manifold on it that allows for more torque, as well as a different exhaust manifold, and different tuning. That is why it is rated to handle a lot more weight.

As I understood it, Ford 'de-tunes' the V10 a lot to make it fit, work in the E series chassis, whereas with the F53, they pretty well turn it loose. The newer ones also have the 6 speed transmission as well.

I used to have the old 2 valve per cylinder V10 in a 2003 Ford Excursion that we towed an RV trailer with. When we traded up to the Class A with the 3 valve V10 about 6 years ago, I noticed a significant difference in power, even though the Motorhome was pulling more weight overall. Throttle response is much better. The V10 in the Class A just has more 'throat', throttle response than the 2 valve V10.

[theoldwizard1]

Winnipeg wrote:
Much to my delight, the new unit performs about the same as the old one, even with so much more weight to move. I am sure it burns more fuel, but I don't track that. An added bonus is that while the old unit had a somewhat unpleasant roar when working, the new one has a deeper rumble to it.

Class C RVs are built on a E350/E450 chassis and use a 2 valve version of the V10. Class A RVs ar built on the F53 chassis which is basically a medium duty truck/school buse chassis. It uses a 3 vale version of the V10. Short story, the 3 valve makes a lot more power. The 6 speed transmission helps also.

rhagfo wrote:
What is the final drive ratio in both rear Ends?

And the final drive ratio makes a BIG difference !

[MetalGator]

TCollins wrote:
As far as gas engine vs. gas engine, I would definitely go with the gas engine.

X2
🙂

[TCollins]

Having never driven anything with the new V10 I guess I don't know what I'm missing. My 2004 has been a real good motor. I don't lack for power and I'm satisfied with the transmission. Got all my sparkplugs too! We don't travel real heavy but we do tow a car.

As far as gas engine vs. gas engine, I would definitely go with the gas engine.

[Mile_High]

They are constantly upgrading, sometimes suttle changes. DW tows our boat with an Expedition - first a 1998, then 2004, now 2014. All had 5.4L V8s, but this 14 is a rocket compared to the others and add the 6-sp and trailer tow integrated brake system - wow!

I hate to say, but the new ones with the ecoboost V-6 will be even better yet next trade.

[stvdman]

Ive had:

-2008 Chevrolet SUPER C with 8.1 GAS/ Allison TRANS
-2009 E450 Class C with V-10 5-speed
-2017 Ford F53 Class A with V-10 6-speed

Best driving experience by far has been the 2017 F53. The shift FORD made in 16/17 on the V10's torque curve (new factory tune?) and the addition of the 6-speed trans made a BIG difference IMO.

[s_N_s]

Not to steal the OP's thread but I had a interesting talk with one of our transport drivers who just brought to auction an 04 Fleetwood Bounder on a Workhorse chassis with 490K on it. Now I haven't verified for myself the mileage but when they are checked into the yard the mileage is double checked. I'm hoping to venture inside sometime today and see if there are any service manuals that may have been left behind. I asked him how it drove and he said great. I did see the coach from the outside and didn't see any real signs of abuse so I can only assume whoever had it did have some kind of maintenance schedule they followed. I'll report on anything that I may find here in the next couple of days.

[rhagfo]

What is the final drive ratio in both rear Ends?

[mtofell1]

Great info and thanks for sharing. This is EXACTLY the type of report I'm always looking for in my research. The newer gas coaches with the 6spd really seem to be doing well.

I'm curious specifically how much of a difference you notice with the different tranny? Are there any annoying gaps between gears or annoying shifting when hauling heavy up big hills?

I'm really thinking of getting into one of these newer coaches soon and would likely be hauling similar weight.

One last note..... people P L E A S E don't turn this into another gas V diesel thread!!!!