Getting the dealer to owe up

[Roman_Duck]

We purchased a used DP on the 15th of june, prior to the purchase we went to view, test drive and inspect the coach several times. Each time there was a valid excuse as to why they the dealer weren't able to comply, each time the sales agent "would say what ever you find wrong we will fix it"
So we bought it. We made arrangements to pick it up on the 29th of June.
We arrived 6/29 for PDI/take delivery. In short nothing was done.
The owner of the dealership and us agreed that they fell short on their word and that we would have it in a week without fail.
In addition we still hav'nt had an oportunity to test drive the dp, but we were able to go thru it and develop a repair list on items that were broken.
A week later they delivered the coach with a number of defects that were not repaired.
The delivery driver gave us a receipt for items owed and told us that they have been ordered and as soon as the parts came in they would schedules a repair.(about2 weeks)
Since then we have sent several dozen emails , called,left many voice mails and no response.
Recently (8/15/13) we received a form letter stating"the parts are in, please call make an appointment for install. of the parts". we called and left messages, sent emails, and we get no replys.
In addtion to the above after taking delivery of the DP, we discovered a number of problems with the chassis, Upon this enlightment we call the dealer, spoke to the service writer about chassis issues. The service writer directed us to to take it to a local service center to invesitgate the problems,(we live about 2 hrs away from dealership, and they don't do mechanical repairs)
Upon inspection the service center sent copies of the repair estimate to the dealers service writer, and to us, who forwarded it to the service writer also.
That was on july 15th. Now the coach sits at the service center awaiting approval for repairs.
The SR still has'nt answered any calls/emails
The service center has been charging a storage fee of $85.00 per day after 10 days from delivery of estimate .
Currently the storage fees need to be paid before the coach can be taken.
We would of picked it right up, but due to a severe fuel leak the service center advised not to run the coach due to potentical risk of an engine fire. the cost of repairs exceeds $4,000.00 which at this time we don't have (we had traded in our gasser A and gave a large sum of $$ for down payment and haven't recoup from that yet)


Does anyone has any suggestions on how I can get the dealer to owe up to his oblications. .

That are legal??

Thanks to all who can offer constuctive advice

[willald]

msmith1199 wrote:
...And to the OP: I find it very difficult to believe that an RV dealer would sell you a 13 year old motorhome, let you take it off the lot, and simply authorize a blank check for "whatever" you find wrong they'll fix.

You're right, none would do that.

However, I have heard many a vehicle sales rep say exactly that - whatever you find wrong (in a test drive or whatever), we'll fix. Its a common line used, to make the customer feel good about buying.

Its one of those 'what they say, what they really mean' things:

What sales rep says: "Whatever you find wrong, we'll fix it"

What he really means: "Whatever you find wrong and don't get in writing that you want fixed, we don't have to fix it"

..Like many have already said: Regardless what they 'said' they would fix, the only things they are obligated to fix is what they agreed to fix, IN WRITING as part of the deal. With a used unit like this, they're just hoping that in the excitement of everything you forget to get in writing anything you find wrong with it that needs fixing. Then they're off the hook, basically.

Like already said, there's some definite lessons to be learned from this, main one being, the importance of a test drive and checking these things out thoroughly before purchasing. That, and the importance of getting everything in writing that you find wrong that you expect the dealer to fix. Like a previous poster mentioned, that should be done on anything from a $1500 'beater' right on up to whats being discussed here.

[msmith1199]

Just to clarify one issue, has anybody found an RV dealer yet that sells DP's and also has a repair facility for the chasis? Not saying they don't exist, but I've never seen one here in California. Maybe the dealer can change the oil and the filters, but any significant repairs and you're taking your DP to a Freightliner or a Cummins or a Cat service center. The dealerships still have service centers and service writers, but it's all for the house part of the RV.

And to the OP: I find it very difficult to believe that an RV dealer would sell you a 13 year old motorhome, let you take it off the lot, and simply authorize a blank check for "whatever" you find wrong they'll fix.

[H345]

.

Anyone that would buy a DP without a lengthy test drive and thorough inspection , should be barred from posting on any RV forums
They need to spend time reading and learning , not responding and giving advice !

.

[rockhillmanor]

dougrainer wrote:

rockhillmanor wrote:

The SR still hasn't answered any calls/emails
The service center has been charging a storage fee of $85.00 per day after 10 days from delivery of estimate .
Currently the storage fees need to be paid before the coach can be taken.We would of picked it right up, but due to a

severe fuel leak the service center advised not to run the coach due to potential risk of an engine fire.

the cost of repairs exceeds $4,000.00 which at this time we don't have (we had traded in our gasser A and gave a large sum of $$ for down payment and haven't recoup from that yet)

WHY if they were supposed to fix a serious fuel leak are YOU being charged by the day while it is in THEIR shop? :?

Regarding the fuel leak. A dealership can NOT legally even sell a vehicle with this type of problem. There are VERY severe new laws about this and other vehicle safety issues on the books now that dealerships MUST abide by when selling a used vehicle.

I would go in and look on the wall for the info regarding this dealerships license. Copy down all the info and start calling the names of who issued this dealerships licenses.

Also what ever brand dealership license they are working under.
You need to call their corp office immediately, they will give you the fastest help with this. It does not matter if the used MH you bought is that brand or not, they are licensed by the manufacture of the main ticket to sell used vehicles and must adhere to their standards.

Also drive down to the city and county buildings this dealership is in and speak to the department that provides him with the license to sell in their town and county. Be sure to show them the fuel line issue.

I have gone this route and you don't need to pay an attorney and trust me by the time you get back into your car after speaking to these people phone lines are burning. Go for their heart and that is their license.

They will yank his license in a heartbeat. Trust me they do not want to loose their license's to operate and you WILL get your MH fixed N/C.

"Also what ever brand dealership license they are working under.
You need to call their corp office immediately, they will give you the fastest help with this. It does not matter if the used MH you bought is that brand or not, they are licensed by the manufacture of the main ticket to sell used vehicles and must adhere to their standards".


EXPLAIN this further. Maybe NY has weird laws, but I fail to see how a Chevy dealer could be gigged for selling a used Ford that had problems. WHAT does his Franchise agreement with Chevy have anything to do with selling used makes of other brand vehicles?????
I am using Chevy and Ford as generic names. ...

The dealership has a 'ticket'. I.E. Ford, Chevy. They PAY to sell cars under that ticket. They are supplied cars from that manuf. I.E. Chevy or Ford. The ticket is umbrella'd with also taking in used cars and selling used cars of all makes to make a sale under that dealership brand name.

If a dealership is caught not abiding by the laws regarding the used vehicles of any make taken in....the Manufacturer CAN PULL their dealership ticket. It is NOT a DMV issue. Worked for dealerships and seen it happen. The new laws regarding selling used vehicles is now VERY stringent. Something used car buyers have fought for for a very long time to protect them. That is why you rarely see really old vehicles for sale at dealerships anymore, too much of a risk and the list of all what they HAVE to repair to costly. These older trade ins are usually sent to the shoots the very next day.

A call to the customer service manufacturer corp number will have a manuf representative sent out the very next day to go over each and every detail regarding the sale, new or used their brand or not. I have used them numerous times with 100% results.

[westernrvparkow]

I am with Executive, Jallen, that Go(blank)Go Guy (it's almost NFL time and damned if I'll cheer for the cheeseheads!) and several others. We must be missing a whole bunch. First, I don't see how a leaking fuel line could cost $4000, but then again I can't see how you can get $85.00 a day to store an RV, especially from people on these forums, since they balk at any full hookup RV site over $25.00, but that is a different story.
This all supposedly happened in July and now it is late August. Why hasn't the OP plopped their arses in the dealer's office and gotten this hammered out? The dealer has no service department, but has service writers? They can be contacted to buy the rig, to set up delivery, but can't be reached now? Maybe they need to try *67 and block their number from the dealer's caller ID.
If someone started calling the local government, licensing departments and the like, you can be assured I would never do a thing for them. Actions like that only lead to one road, the courtroom. And with a used vehicle, and almost assuredly a signed AS IS NO WARRANTY document, I like the dealer's chances in that courtroom.
In my opinion they should get the rig repaired. I would make a phone call to a couple of diesel shops and cross check that repair estimate for a leaking fuel line. If $4000 is way out of line, I would drive the rig to the other shop. It made it 550 miles, it will make another 10 or 20. If I have the shop it is in make the repairs, I would be looking to get the storage waived. I would take all these receipts to the selling dealer and try to nicely, but firmly reach a settlement agreement, maybe dealer pays 100% or maybe dealer pays 50%, I don't know. I would get the dealer to honor any other of their commitments and I would move on. Only if I got nothing from those efforts would I start thinking about using the legal system.

[Francesca_Knowl]

garry1p wrote:
I hate to say this but given the description of the circumstance and how it all transpired, sounds like a troll.

Dunno if it's a troll, exactly, but the description of events in this thread's a little different from the way the O.P. described them in another:

Roman Duck wrote:
...snip...
The biggest issue's are: 1) Per the sales contract a number of items were written up on sales contract to be repaired or replaced, by the agreed time of delivery. That has not happened, and I am still waiting for them to honor thier agreement. 2) Per sales contract the coach was supposed to be gone over by thier service garage ie; oil and filter change, all other filters to be changed(air,fuel,water)repair the exhaust system. Check entire motor transmission/ driveline. 3) to inspect tires, check for defective/expired tires. 4) inspect coach and issue NYS inspection certifcate. the only thing that was done by time of delivery was an inspection.
We took the coach on good faith, with expectations that the dealer would honor his argreement. I've called many times leaving many voicemails, with no return calls. I've emailed them requests for updates as to when they will perform repairs, with no replys.
The DW and I took our new MH out on a 550 mile round robin, not exeeding the double nickle and went thru 120 gals. of fuel. Upon returning home I called and left messages(no response) fianlly took the MH into a cummins dealer to find that the filters were oem(it's a 2000 model yr)meaning that they never were changed. That's one of the reasons for the bad fuel mileage, another was due to a leaking fuel line,it was spraying fuel all over the top of the motor. 4 out of 6 tires are well past thier expiration date. This was relayed to me by cummins dealer after I explained all that was supposed to be done by the dealer. In short everything they claim is false, every promise they made has been broken...snip...

Above quote is from this thread

[GoPackGo]

I absolutely hate to try and solve these kind of things over the phone, or by email, etc. I do not see where you made a return trip to the dealer for a face to face at any time after the failed visit to pick up your coach on 6/29. That was 2 months ago. I really think you should do that ASAP and talk with someone higher up on the food chain then the service writer. And if you do, I suggest taking along a relative or friend in case you need a witness later on.

[CarlGeo]

Purchase of a MH is a major financial transaction. First rule is to never sign any papers or give any money until after you drive the vehicle AND all outstanding issues are fixed to your satisfaction.
Once you sign and give the dealer money, you LOOSE ALL YOUR LEVERAGE!
In other words there is no incentive for the dealer to fix anything, but before you sign and give money YOU HAVE CONTROL. That makes all the diference in the world. Which position do you want to be in???
Before signing and giving money YOU can walk if YOU want to. After you sign and give money, YOU cannot walk without consequences. NOT GOOD, YOU want to always be in a position of CONTROL or POWER!

[Big_Katuna]

Once again, JALLEN has delivered a concise and accurate description of the transaction.

Like I said; I hope you have something in writing that the dealer was going to take care of anything you found.

[JALLEN4]

rockhillmanor wrote:

The SR still hasn't answered any calls/emails
The service center has been charging a storage fee of $85.00 per day after 10 days from delivery of estimate .
Currently the storage fees need to be paid before the coach can be taken.We would of picked it right up, but due to a

severe fuel leak the service center advised not to run the coach due to potential risk of an engine fire.

the cost of repairs exceeds $4,000.00 which at this time we don't have (we had traded in our gasser A and gave a large sum of $$ for down payment and haven't recoup from that yet)

WHY if they were supposed to fix a serious fuel leak are YOU being charged by the day while it is in THEIR shop? :?

Regarding the fuel leak. A dealership can NOT legally even sell a vehicle with this type of problem. There are VERY severe new laws about this and other vehicle safety issues on the books now that dealerships MUST abide by when selling a used vehicle.

I would go in and look on the wall for the info regarding this dealerships license. Copy down all the info and start calling the names of who issued this dealerships licenses.

Also what ever brand dealership license they are working under.
You need to call their corp office immediately, they will give you the fastest help with this. It does not matter if the used MH you bought is that brand or not, they are licensed by the manufacture of the main ticket to sell used vehicles and must adhere to their standards.

Also drive down to the city and county buildings this dealership is in and speak to the department that provides him with the license to sell in their town and county. Be sure to show them the fuel line issue.

I have gone this route and you don't need to pay an attorney and trust me by the time you get back into your car after speaking to these people phone lines are burning. Go for their heart and that is their license.

They will yank his license in a heartbeat. Trust me they do not want to loose their license's to operate and you WILL get your MH fixed N/C.

There is some really poor advice contained here.

The dealership where the coach is presently sitting has every right to charge storage. They received the coach to examine certain problems and issued an estimate. After giving the customer the estimate, ten days expired and one assumes they were not paid for their work nor were the repairs authorized. They are not a storage facility and did not sell the coach. It either needs to be removed and the charges paid or the work needs to be authorized and subsequently paid for.

For the dealership to be liable for selling the coach with a safety concern such as leaking fuel, there would need to be proof it was leaking when the delivery was made. Without independent verification of this fact, you simply have a he said they said situation. Good luck pursuing that remedy.

A motor vehicle sales license is issued by the State. The city or county where the facility is located might well need to issue a business license or occupancy permit but will have no governance over the sale of vehicles. That authority will reside with the DMV of the state.

Any manufacturer that the business would have a sales and service agreement with would have no connection to their motor vehicle license. The dealership may well have sales and service agreements with multiple manufacturers or if used only, no affiliation at all. A manufacturer does not "license" a dealership to sell used vehicles. Calling Winnebago and expecting them to become involved with a dealership sale of a used Newmar would quickly show how preposterous this suggestion is.

Marching down to City Hall and demanding a dealers license to be revoked because of your dissatisfaction with a purchased item is ridiculous. It is not going to happen in a "heartbeat" nor in a long "New York minute". If that were true, there would not be a dealership left in the entire US!

If, as I suspect, the unit was sold As-Is and there is not a contract existing with a specified warranty and or specific repairs promised, this customer has a long road before them.

[Dale_Traveling]

Sorry to read about the problems with the coach but buying sight unseen, even from a dealer, is very risky and it appears this time the out come was not good for the new owner. The day when a merchant would live by their spoken agreement has long passed. Expressed or implied post sale warrantee period ends at the dealership curb. It you don't have it in writing, with a signature, your options maybe very limited. Since each state has different consumer protection laws you need to education yourself on what options are available.

In the mean time get the coach home or where you keep it and stop the storage costs while you are working this out even if it means going deeper into debt. Keep records of all costs and the time periods the coach was not usable for potential legal action. For the moment any dealing with the dealership do not mention legal action. Once you pull that trigger most merchants will shut you out and just wait for the summons.

[jerem0621]

I call suspect on the whole post.

No test drive, this is a DIESEL PUSHER.. one of the most expensive vehicles an individual consumer will privately maintain and there was no independent inspection? There was no test drive? The tires on this bus are $3500-5500 bucks right?

i am not trying to be mean here, but you don't buy a $1500.00 Beater with out a test drive or at least pulling the dipstick and checking the oil.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[Executive45]

Roman Duck wrote:
In addition we still hav'nt had an oportunity to test drive the dp, but we were able to go thru it and develop a repair list on items that were broken.
A week later they delivered the coach with a number of defects that were not repaired.
The delivery driver gave us a receipt for items owed and told us that they have been ordered and as soon as the parts came in they would schedules a repair.(about2 weeks)
Since then we have sent several dozen emails , called,left many voice mails and no response.
Recently (8/15/13) we received a form letter stating"the parts are in, please call make an appointment for install. of the parts". we called and left messages, sent emails, and we get no replys.
In addtion to the above after taking delivery of the DP, we discovered a number of problems with the chassis, Upon this enlightment we call the dealer, spoke to the service writer about chassis issues. The service writer directed us to to take it to a local service center to invesitgate the problems,(we live about 2 hrs away from dealership, and they don't do mechanical repairs)
Upon inspection the service center sent copies of the repair estimate to the dealers service writer, and to us, who forwarded it to the service writer also.
That was on july 15th. Now the coach sits at the service center awaiting approval for repairs.
The SR still has'nt answered any calls/emails
The service center has been charging a storage fee of $85.00 per day after 10 days from delivery of estimate .
Currently the storage fees need to be paid before the coach can be taken.
We would of picked it right up, but due to a severe fuel leak the service center advised not to run the coach due to potentical risk of an engine fire. the cost of repairs exceeds $4,000.00 which at this time we don't have (we had traded in our gasser A and gave a large sum of $$ for down payment and haven't recoup from that yet)


Does anyone has any suggestions on how I can get the dealer to owe up to his oblications. .

That are legal??

Thanks to all who can offer constuctive advice

Maybe I'm a little dense here, please help me out....

1. You purchased a used DP and actually gave the dealer money WITHOUT ever taking it out for a TEST DRIVE..?:h
2. You say you received a notice your parts were in but could never reach anyone at the dealership via phone, messages or email. How did you CALL and SPEAK to the service writer about OTHER PROBLEMS...?:h
3. You said the dealership does no mechanical repairs so they referred you to a different repair shop. Just out of curiosity, if the dealer does no mechanical repairs, just what does a SERVICE WRITER do...?:h

Not trying to bust your chops here, but something is fishy. Me thinks there's another side to this story. I would like to hear that side before offering advice to seek legal help. If it were me, I would have the service facility that has the coach fix the fuel leak and negotiate the storage fees at that time...say, fix the leak and I'll pay half the storage fees or some such. Get it fixed where it's driveable and if nothing else, drive it to the selling dealer and "camp" in or next to his lot, with signs if necessary, until the repairs were completed or I received a check for the cost of someone else repairing the coach.....good luck..I don't think legal action is going to get you anywhere based on what you've posted.....Dennis

[timmac]

This is why I had extended warranty built in with my finance with my recent 08 Fleetwood Bounder purchase, sure the warranty was high but at least its covered for 4 years, high cost repairs out the door on these expensive toys hurt.