Popping spark plugs V10

[getgoin]

Hello All,
We just retired....traded the tt?, sold the truck and got a 2016 Winnebago Vista 26HE. It's nice for us and the fuzzy kids.

Now, upon reading everything I can get my hands on I can't help but wonder did we make a BIG mistake?....if I believed all that I read these F53 V10 are ripping out aluminum spark holes like crazy. Trying to pinpoint the problem years has proven to be nothing short of a waste of time! When and how do I find real info on this, years 3 valve, etc. Ours is the 3 valve so from what I can tell the plugs are of a strange, different configuration that traps carbon in the area beyond the threads thus leaving 1/2 the plug behind if not removed carefully....I use Kroil.

I am a retired machinist and after 40 years in the trade have a thorough understanding of PROPER power plant machining practices.....Is this the awful problem posters have depicted? Can 'standard' plugs be adapted to the 3 valve engines....what's the fix?

Too bad they don't put a Cummins in a 27 footer

Any and all info on this would be greatly appreciated

Thanks much,
Mike

[getgoin]

This post went a bit off track. The vehicle is a 2016 Winnebago Vista 26 HE (F53) with the V10 3 valve. It seems I am in the clear on this one. I would like to see a pic of the plug used in this engine.

Thanks for the replies,
Mike

[CharlesinGA]

pianotuna wrote:
So does Champion make a plug for the two valve engines?

Apparently the problem with the two valve engine is the lack of enough threads in the head, about 4 turns and thats all. The best plug in the world won't fix that. There are helicoil type kits out there to repair the heads if the thread tear out. Nice clean threads, lightly lubed with anti-seize and torqued to the minimum spec. Thats everything I have read.......... no personal experience.

Charles

[Naio]

I see the links here all talk about pickups. But are the vans the same engines?

[Naio]

crasster wrote:
Many gasser V10's don't make it to 100k anyway.

Yeah, that was true when we were kids, with American trucks. You had to buy Japanese.

But things have changed! Shopping for vans, I have seen a surprising number of gassers with over 350k, some over 450k. I'm not buying them, but they are out there.

[allbrandauto]

as a auto shop owner see many plugs that have changed break off in cyl. head used all the updated procedures to change plugs and still broke than I saw a youtube video with someone using a impact gun to change plugs would have never thought it would work have never broken another spark plug

[mlslcan]

The Ford V10 is part of the "Modular" engine series by Ford. There are two issues with spark plugs in those engines (not just the V10). First is the spark plug popping out. Most agree that was only with the 2 valve engines but dates vary on when different models moved to three valves. The following link has more information although it list car models and not engine models the last model year listed is the 2006 F150.

See http://www.fordproblems.com/trends/triton-engine/spark-plug-ejection.shtml

The second issue is with spark plugs breaking when removal is attempted. This affects mostly the three valve engines and was fixed with a redesign of the spark plug. There is a tool to remove the broken spark plug without removing the heads. The last model year affected was 2008. Although when talking motorhomes that would be the chassis year not the MH year.

See http://www.fordproblems.com/trends/triton-engine/spark-plug-stuck.shtml

Mike

[frankdamp]

We never had a problem in our '02, but it only had 18,000 miles on it when we sold it in 2014. We bought it from the original owners in 2010 at 12,000 miles.

It was my understanding that it was the thickness of the cylinder head that didn't allow enough threads to keep the plugs firmly in place.

[Desert_Captain]

"Many gasser V10's don't make it to 100k anyway."

Seriously? You base this statement on what? :h

The V-10 is one of the most bulletproof motors to ever come down the road.

I can't imagine how much abuse and/or lack of maintenance it would take to wear out a V-10 before 100,000 miles.

:S

[DrewE]

pianotuna wrote:
So does Champion make a plug for the two valve engines?

I would guess probably, but it's immaterial to the spark plug ejection problem. The fault there lies in the heads having a marginally adequate threaded thickness to hold the spark plugs in, and obviously you can't improve that with any superior spark plug design.

[crasster]

carringb wrote:
Don't' worry about it. Go camping!

Love this response!

If all else fails, the OP (many will disagree) can always buy iridium plugs (good for 100k miles) and use a heat resistant thread lock. Many gasser V10's don't make it to 100k anyway. So add the current miles PLUS 100k. 100k is also the lifespan of iridium plugs, they can go longer, probably 130k before probs.

[pianotuna]

So does Champion make a plug for the two valve engines?

[J-Rooster]

Mike, I had the same trouble in my 1999 Ford Triton V-10 I traded it in on a Workhorse with a Big Block Chevy! Ended that problem! Surprised to hear that is still happening in the V-10 Fords! Good Luck to you!

[427435]

Your 2011 is fine. The early 2 valve engines had some problems, but mine is fine at 80,000 miles. I did very, very carefully change them at 40,000 miles and reinstalled with Never Seize and very carefully torqued.

As for yours:



The Ford Three-Valve Broken Spark Plug Blues
Posted in How To: Engine on December 1, 2010 Comment (1)
Share this
Jim Allen

If you are the owner of a Ford truck with a three-valve (3V) modular V-8 or V-10 engine built from 2004 thru 2007, you have either faced the misery of broken spark plugs-or you will. The Ford 4.6L, 5.4L or 6.8L 3V engines are some of the best and most durable engines Ford has ever built, but like Superman, they have a Kryptonite weak link. In this case, it's the OE Motorcraft spark plugs. They don't typically fail in service but often break upon replacement, leaving a piece in the cylinder head that can lead to an expensive repair.
129 1012 The Ford Three Valve Broken Spark Plug Blues kit Photo 30946540 The Boy Scout motto is "Be Prepared." Here is most of what you need to deal with broken spark plugs in your 3V Ford Modular. The cost of this would be around $250 in most places. Our informal survey of the costs of having it done at a dealer or independent repair shop range from $600 to $1,200, with only a few broken plugs. If parts fall into the cylinder and the head must be removed (which necessitates lifting the cab), the cost can run $2,000 to $3,000.

The High-Thread (HT) Motorcraft plugs for the three-valves built through 2007 (built by Autolite and also sold under the Autolite name) are a multi-piece design. Carbon buildup inside the combustion chamber locks the lower part into place. It can take as little as 35 lb-ft to break that piece off the main body and it remains in the head. It's almost a guarantee that at least one spark plug will break. What happens after that depends on the knowledge, skill, and toolbox contents of the technician doing the job. With the right tools and knowledge, the problem is usually solvable without major pain or expense, bearing in mind that shops will charge actual time on this job. If the tech is clueless or careless, the vehicle owner can be in for a wild ride.

Early on, Ford developed a special removal tool and came out with a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) with detailed service procedures. That original 2006 TSB has been updated several times, with the final one being TSB 08-7-6 (you can easily find it on the web). For 2008, Ford redesigned the 3V cylinder head to use a new one-piece spark plug. Unfortunately, it will not retrofit to the older heads and Motorcraft/Autolite hasn't altered the design of the 2004-07 plugs. Even though Ford specifies the use of a nickel antiseize on the tip upon replacement, there is plenty of evidence that those plugs will do the same thing in another 60,000 to 100,000 miles, at least a good portion of the time.

Because it's such an oddball spark plug, the aftermarket doesn't offer many other choices. Besides Motorcraft and Autolite, there are only Brisk and Champion. These latter two are both one-piece plugs that won't break. The Brisk plugs, however, are designed for competition; the heat ranges and construction materials may not be ideal for a stock engine in low-speed operations. Currently, that leaves Champion as your best bet. Champion was clued in right away to the problem, but it took a couple of years to come up with a design didn't get them into patent-infringement hot water.

Lisle Tools also entered the game early on with help. They looked at the Ford kit and came up with a better idea of their own, one that was much less likely to drop bits and pieces into the combustion chamber. The general consensus seems to be that, among techs that have tried both, most prefer the Lisle, saying it's easier to use and hundreds of dollars cheaper. Lisle has also managed to amass a pretty good bag of tricks in dealing with unexpected problems.

Change Now Or Later?
The owner's manual for 3V-powered trucks may list a 100,000-mile service interval for "normal" operating conditions and a 60,000-mile interval for "special" conditions. Ford defines "special" as lots of low-speed operation and city-type driving. Techs and industry professionals hint that seldom are OE sparkplugs of any type delivering optimal performance past 60,000 miles, so they recommend replacing the plugs in the 50,000- to 70,000-mile range for optimum fuel economy.

There is a not-always-apparent rhyme or reason to which 3V engines will have broken plug problems and which will not. Techs we asked have seen plugs break off at 11,000 miles and have had all eight come out at 100,000 miles. These are at the ends of a broad spectrum of experiences, and both are relatively uncommon occurrences. Generally, the earlier you do the change, the better the chances of fewer breaking off-but it's no guarantee. The consensus seems to be that most cost-effective solution is to get some miles out of the OE plugs, and then either get the Lisle tool and be ready, or find a shop that is well versed in removing the plugs. Individual owners who perform DIY changes seem to prefer getting them outta there ASAP once they learn of the problem. There's really no wrong answer if you are prepared to deal with it.

Strategy and Tactics for a Successful Change
This step-by-step will give you the hands-on highlights, but we want to offer some long-term strategies and emphasize short-term tactics that will increase the odds of (relatively!) trouble-free spark plug replacement. Step one on the strategic scale is using a high-detergent gasoline, which will help reduce the combustion chamber carbon deposits that grab the spark plugs. There are minimum federal standards for detergent additives in gasoline, but a group of six automakers think they are inadequate, having suffered from drivability and emissions problems for years. Some of the fuel industry responded, and there are major fuel suppliers that offer gasoline with a higher-than-mandated level of detergents. Appropriately, they are called Top Tier Gasolines, and you can see for yourself which suppliers are on that list by looking at the Top Tier website at www.toptiergas.com.
129 1012 The Ford Three Valve Broken Spark Plug Blues champion And Oe Motorcraft Plug Photo 34924107 Two versions of the 3V HT spark plug and a conventional long-reach plug. On the left is the one-piece Champion 7989 that was introduced in 2007. It features a platinum-tipped J-gap ground electrode and platinum center electrode. In the middle is the OE Motorcraft two-piece plug with a U-gap ground electrode of a conventional nickel material with a platinum center electrode. There are premium versions of Autolite HT that are double platinum, but they are still the multi-piece design. The Champion 7989 spark plug is the replacement for all the 3-valve engines. Though the U-gap plug looks kinda whiz-bang and may transfer heat a little better, Champion's tests showed the difference was not significant and that the J-style is less shrouded and delivers a little more spark where it needs to be. Starting with the 2008 models, the 3V head designs were modified to use a long -reach, J-gap plug similar to the one on the right-and maybe that says a lot.

The second step is to run a tank or two of fuel treated with an injector cleaner/deposit remover before doing the change. There are many on the market, including the one Champion sells under its own name. We have had good luck with the Chevron/Texico Techron product and the similar Techron-based Shell V-Power product.

As far as hands-on tactics go, as detailed here but worth repeating, give the penetrant time to work. If you can, let it soak overnight to really loosen up that carbon. The chemical will wick past the threads and down the tip. Also, to avoid misfires, plan on replacing the COP (Coil on Plug) boots. Finally, save yourself the aggravation of more broken plugs later and go to the most suitable one-piece plug, the Champion.

Doing the Deed
This being so prevalent a problem, we thought bringing you the cures from a very knowledgeable source was important. We also figured that if a ham-fisted journalist could do it, so might you. To aid us in that we enlisted the aid of Roger Bentdahl, a Technical Service Engineer from Federal-Mogul (the parent company of Champion), whose job was to help determine service procedures for this problem and who is now training techs and industry people about it. Having Roger there was kinda like getting Arnold Palmer as a golf coach.

Roger's tips and the Lisle tool instruction sheet differ from Ford's TSB. That's partly because the Lisle removal tool is very different from Ford's and partly from the many other methods that have been successfully tried. We leave it to you to get and read the Ford TSB, compare it to the Lisle method, and decide which way you prefer. Basically, all methods are proven to work.

When you are fully prepared for a problem, it often serves as a cosmic get-out-of-jail-free card. Such was the case with us. The aforementioned ham-fisted journalist followed Roger's directives, and all eight came out with the accompanying screech of joy. Roger's eyebrows gradually crawled to the back of his head as each succeeding plug came out in one piece. He stated that the odds against it were at least 30 to 1, and that there were techs out there who had done many plug changes on 3Vs and never had all eight come out. We must be living right!

The answer seemed clear. In looking at the plugs, we noted very little carbon. We had not had time to run any deposit removing additives in the fuel and had only soaked the plugs for 15 minutes. We can only surmise it was the steady diet of Top Tier Shell gasoline that made the job easy. Also, our engine burns no oil.

Final Words
The truck is running 100 percent on the Champion plugs, and we are happy the next plug change in 60,000 miles will be uneventful. Currently, Champion is offering replacement plugs in the standard heat range. Plans are afoot to launch a wider variety of heat ranges to cover the performance realm, including supercharged engines.

List of Affected Vehicles and Engines
(per Ford TSB 08-7-6, April 1, 2008)

2004-08 Ford F-150 w/4.6 & 5.4L 3V V-8
2006-08 Lincoln Mark LT w/5.4L V-8 (3V engine only, not 4V)
2006-08 Ford Explorer/Sport-Trac/Mercury Mountaineer w/4.6L 3V V-8
2005-08 Ford F-Super Duty or stripped chassis w/5.4L 3V V-8 or 6.8L 3V V-10
All 5.4L 3V V-8 and V-10 engines built before 10/9/07
All 4.6L 3V V-8 engines built before 11/30/07

Tools & Parts Needed for a Champion Upgrade

Ordinary hand tools, plus:
9/16-inch spark plug socket (for OE plugs)
5/8-inch spark plug socket (for Champions)
Spark plug gapping tool (0.045 inch)
Lisle 712-542-5101 Broken Spark Plug Remover for Ford 3-Valve
8 Champion #7989 Double Platinum spark plugs
8 COP boots
AeroKroil, PB Blaster or other suitable penetrating oil, and/or Motorcraft PM-3 carb clear or suitable replacement.
Nickel-based antiseize if you reinstall Motorcraft/Autolite plugs

[AllegroD]

Pre 2004.