surge protectors

[mammothsteve]

Hello all. Recently bought a DP and am curious to know about surge protectors. I have RV'D for the past 40 years with everything from a cab over, a class C to several 5th wheels. In all those years, I never had a surge protector. I'm reading posts from several people that have had issues with these devices.
My question(s) are thus:
Are surge issues commonplace? Is it REALLY necessary to have one? Are RV park spikes that frequent or is this just a sales pitch to spend $300+?
If it is an issue, is a portable or hardwired unit better that the other?
Thank you for any response. All the best!

[Gene_M]

ok, after some research I have decided to forget about my original idea, to adapt a home type surge protector, and go with a hardwired unit.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the progressive EMS-LCHW30?
and from their website:
EMS-LCHW30

Progressive Industries Portable Electrical Management Systems (EMS) provide full RV protection against all adverse power conditions. You will feel secure with multi-mode surge, voltage, polarity and lost/open neutral protection. Each unit includes a digital display, scrolling continuously through the power source information: Voltage(s), current, frequency, error code, and previous error code (if applicable). Replacement parts are simply plug-and-play, making repairs quick and easy. As with our portable models, the computer is driven by state of the art microprocessors. Should the software ever change, EMS owners can receive a free upgrade at no cost.

Any thoughts, good/bad?

[Gene_M]

catkins wrote:
FYI - I think the whole house unit referred to here is one that protects the entire RV(house), inline prior to power entering the RV.

Yes, I understand that, my question is in regards to the type of surge protector used in a brick and mortar home. Can that type be used in an RV?

[catkins]

The more electronics RVS have, they more you need a surge protector. Modern RVs are very electronics heavy - fridge motherboard, AC units, TVs, microwaves, and some detectors can all be adversely effected by bad power.

I agree, LOW voltage is much more frequent than high voltage or a surge. Progressives protects high/low voltage and will allow power through when the power situation returns to normal voltage. A quality unit will be expensive and may you never need it. I never plug in without one. I know how many times it has saved me but wonder how many more times it activated when I was sleeping or gone. Happy Trails!

FYI - I think the whole house unit referred to here is one that protects the entire RV(house), inline prior to power entering the RV.

[Gene_M]

Hi all, did not read all the posts so I'm not sure if this has been asked: can a whole house surge protector, the type you can get at home depot, be hardwired into the RV? I currently have my devices on those small plug in surge protectors but would like to protect the refrigerator and my integrated load center as well.

Thanks for entertaining my potentially ridiculous question in advance.

[ArchHoagland]

TechWriter wrote:

ArchHoagland wrote:

Low voltage is the real culprit and it will take out your air conditioner fairly quick. I monitor our 120 volts and if we drop to 105 off goes the air conditioner.

So you never sleep?

I sleep fine. Make the wife stay up....

Actually we seldom run the air at night and after watching campground power for years the power goes up at night so I don't fret about it.

[ncrowley]

You do not just want a surge protector - you want a power conditioner. And I think they are essential. The power conditioner has saved us a couple of times. Just one time is enough to make it worth the cost.

[TechWriter]

ArchHoagland wrote:

Low voltage is the real culprit and it will take out your air conditioner fairly quick. I monitor our 120 volts and if we drop to 105 off goes the air conditioner.

So you never sleep?

[AAFD]

We bought the hard wired type due to the fact that it not only protects agains park electric issues but also with our generator. Worth the money, bought ours on sale through Progressive web site.

KC

[RayChez]

I have been using Progressive 50 amp for several years. It not only protects from a spike, but it will shut down the power if it is too low to protect your coach. It also will tell you when you first hook up to power if the outlet you are plugging into is wired correct or wired wrong. It has worked good for us.

[fcooper]

I've been using the same Progressive 50amp hard wired model since 2004, and it has saved us from bad wired campground outlets, undervoltage, overvoltage and surges.

You can look at a meter to see under/over voltage, but do you watch that meter while you're sleeping?

We've had it disconnect due to overvoltage after retiring for the evening.

I would not be without one.

Fred

[wa8yxm]

Thanks for the comment westom.

Oh, the little six outlet strips... Back when I had a sticks and bricks I had several of them in my pasement for assorted reasons, including the one that fed the computer... Well Detroit Edison hired Harlan electric to fix some lines that were down and Harlan, being well trained (not) hooked 'em up WRONG and I got hit with a genuine surge,,,, not unlike many Rvers who have plugged a rig into a 30 amp Dryer or Welder outlet (240 volts instead of 120).

Sounded a bit like July 4 in that basement with MOV's going BANG like firecrackers.. no fire, but not one MOV survived

(MOV, Metal Oxcide Varisistor, is the device that provides SPIKE protection in thes low-cost devices. it does nothing for a genuine surge such as I had)

Cost me a new blower motor for my furnace (Edison paid) and a new power supply for my computer. Oh, and a bunch of new spike suppressors.

[westom]

kuzined wrote:
Took out the fridge, convection micro, water cooler, beer fridge and a couple of small items.Only thing that saved the laptop is the little surge protector in the multi-plug cord I was using.Smell of burnt wire woke me up.

Device called a surge protector (attached to a computer) is completely different from another device summarized by wa8yxm. Your computer was not protected by that 'burned' device. A computer easily protects itself. But that 'burned' surge protector was so grossly undersized as to almost cause a camper fire.

Plenty of completely different devices are all called surge protectors. A protector considered essential for campgrounds is completely different from a protector that should be standard in homes. Both protect from completely different anomalies.

That protector that plugs in adjacent to an appliance does not claim to protect even from anomalies that can exist in a home. If not protected by a 'whole house' protector, then those near zero protectors can even create fires. That burning smell would be a grossly undersized part burning while a surge remained connected to that computer. Protection inside a computer is often more robust than protection provided by plug-in protectors.

APC (due to new owners) recently admitted many of their protectors are so dangerous as to be removed immediately. Sound like your computer's protector also had that dangerous design.

Protector that is strongly recommended for campgrounds is protection from different and potentially destructive electrical anomalies that can cause appliance damage - even to plug-in protectors.

[msturtz]

I have used both the Progressive Industries and the TRC SurgeGuard EMS. Currently, we have the Surge Guard hard wired. Yes, I have seen miswired pedestal power connections etc. Surprisingly enough I have seen many "low voltage" conditions usually a result of poor quality park wiring or too much load. It isn't worth it to me to take a risk of damage to my coach. Even if the damage would be covered by a 3rd party it would be a hassle to have our vacation ruined and the coach in the shop. I have used an Autoformer and surge suppressor for our RVs for years. I have seen a lot of strange things. In fact one surge suppressor had to be tossed because it was fried.

[Trap]

We have a surge guard built in, but I also like to use one on the power pedestal. So far in just over a hundred campgrounds it has done what it was suppose to twice and shut down the power on us. Once for over voltage the power was up over 132 volts and once for under voltage. Ironically both of these campgrounds we're in California

[wa8yxm]

First there are "Surge Protectors" and there are Surge Protectors.

The first type (You can get those six outlet strips) are simple devices that clip spikes, but a true surge (Sustained high or low voltage) they) are of no use or worse are simply destroyed.

Dangers of high voltage: Many electronic devices get a tad upset with high voltage, it can "let the magic smoke" out of the device, and as you know when that happens. they no longer function....... Story follows.

Dangers of low voltage: Motors, like the compressor in yoru air conditioner (Roughly a kilobuck to replace the upper unit in an A/C labor included) do not like low voltage, it extends the start cycle, during the start cycle hugh current flows, this can damage the motor before the thermal cut off cuts off.

Danger of a BRIEF (like 1 second) power outage: Many devices do not like "Hot Restarting" (that is off and right back on) Including the afore mentioned air conditioners.. NOTE this would also apply to Residential refrigerators.

What SURGE PROTECTORS do

They monitor voltage. If it drops below the pre-set minimum for more than a very brief time they drop you out. this protects your A/C and residential Fridge and perhaps some other stuff.

IF it goes too HIGH, likewise they shut you off protecting all sorts of electronics.

They may also monitor frequency (Too high or low there is also bad)

And they have a time delay.. Progressive Industries ships set to 15 seconds (not long enough) but can be upped to about 2 minutes (much better) TRC Surge Guard ships with just shy of 3 minutes (Better still, in fact 3 minutes is the recommended minimum off time) That said many RV Air conditoenrs have a bit of delay built in as well so the Progressive Industries, set on LONG DELAY and the A/C will total 3 minutes.

Short version of the true story: Campground I used to visit had a "Temporary" Transformer (The one that provides power) When the aluminum main feed to the park burned out the manager replaced it with Copper.. The improved wire overloaded the transformer (lower resistance, better power to the park) and burned it out.. The power company came out and hooked up the replacement,,, wrong,, fed half the park 240 volts... Blew TV's. Microwaves, Converters and more, thousands of dollars in damage, hundreds to each RV.

Many people have plugged into a 30 amp outlet at a friend's hosue "Oh it's ok Other Rvers have done it, all the time" only it's not OK, it's a Dryer or Welder outlet and it's 240 volt And again there are hundreds of dollars in fried electronics in the RV.

If you plug in either PI's or TRC's Surge protectors to a 240 volt outlet in this manner they will tell you what you have done and deny the connection, thus protecting your hardware and paying for themselves in that one act.

And yes. I have heard of RV parks mis-wiring a 30 amp outlet or even a 50.