Answering "How Much" Questions

[jerem0621]

Sorry for this long and wordy post... I am looking for some feedback on a little project I have been working on today. Kind of a sick day for me... so I have taken the down time to try and be productive.

One of the questions many people ask in the TT, Fiver, and TV's forums is how much can I tow? Really this is two questions in one.... How much you can tow (trailer weight) is directly related to how much can you carry (payload).

I have created some charts, in an effort to help some out with correctly answering, how much can you tow and carry at the same time.

After one arrives at an understanding that their vehicle must not only tow but must also carry the tongue/pin weight... the next question is... how do I know how big of a trailer I can tow without overloading my TV? After all the tow rating is often MUCH higher than how much payload the truck has available.

Now the charts, and I wanted to ask the forum if these make sense.. if they are useful... or should be scrapped?

Basically, you take your available payload and based on the rule of thumb 13% tongue weight for TT's or 25% pin weight for fivers you get an APPROXIMATE max trailer weight... of course if your tow rating is lower than what the chart says is a match for your available payload or your GCWR is lower then the LCD rules in this number games.

Here are the charts

How to calculate available payload



Travel Trailers



Fifth Wheels



Are these useful, worthless, can be improved?

Thanks for the feedback in advanced.

Jeremiah

[jerem0621]

handye9 wrote:
Check this out. Plug in some numbers and see what it does.

Note: the block for hitch weight is only the WD hitch

Great tool!

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[handye9]

Check this out. Plug in some numbers and see what it does.

Note: the block for hitch weight is only the WD hitch or fifth wheel hitch

[jerem0621]

Here is a pretty nice Towing Glossary from U-Haul

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[jerem0621]

Allright team..Here is the next table... with disclaimers... etc etc etc.

This should be handy for folks who more accurately know what their tongue/pin weight % is.

Soooo... whatchall think 🙂

[jerem0621]

Thanks jmtandem,

You have pretty well identified this project. If I can get someone to understand that these numbers have to work together (payload and trailer weight) then I'll call this a success. And yes, the normal half ton owner with limited to no understanding why or how these numbers interact and why they normally can't tow the max trailer weight rating.

But, to a lesser degree this applies to 3/4 and one ton truck owners. I didn't think about the big Dually's that run out of max trailer weight before they run out of payload.

Good stuff.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[jmtandem]

Sounds good...link to a glossary...

Do you have a recommended link? While these terms make sense to you and I... Joe or Jane average has a limited if non existent understanding of them. But if there is a place we can point people to to gain a universal understanding I am all for it.

Thanks for the feedback! Please keep it coming!

Jeremiah

I have found Ford has an excellent towing guide and lot of good info including deducts from tow ratings for altitude and wind resistance frontal area. I have not looked at any GM tow ratings but I think Ram does a pretty good job as well. Ford's tow guide is on line and covers cabover campers as well as fifth wheels and tow behind travel trailers. I think what you are doing is good if you bring clarity to the relationship between payload and max allowable tow ratings especially for the half ton tow vehicle crowd. As you move into the one ton trucks the relationship almost becomes the opposite--they can easily handle the tongue weight or fifth wheel weights especially duallys. Ram and others now offer one ton duallys that can carry 6000+/- pounds or more payload, often far more payload available than the ability of the truck to tow heavy trailers or fifth wheels especially the gas engines. An example would be Ram's new 6.4 gas engine in a one ton dually. It will run out of tow capacity (16,000 with the 4.10 axle) long before it runs out of payload capacity for pin weights of around 3200 pounds. And the hitch maybe another 200-250 pounds, all well below payload capacity.

[tsetsaf]

There is an app for that Fifth ST

[jerem0621]

jmtandem wrote:

Okay guys and gals... I'm about to get back to work on this... Basically I want a newbie interested in towing to start at the beginning and gain a decent understanding of all these ratings...

So... May try to integrate a glossary of terms

Here is my short list

GVWR
GCVWR
AXLE RATINGS
TIRE RATINGS
TIRE CLASS
RECEIVER HITCH
RECEIVER HITCH RATING
DRAW BAR
BALL
WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION HITCH
SPRING BAR
SWAY CONTROL


can you think of anything else to add to a glossary of terms? Anybody want to volunteer to write a few brief one sentence descriptions of some of these terms?

Thanks!

Jeremiah

Most if not all of your definitions can be found in most towing guides. Why reinvent the wheel? Just use their definitions. I think it is pretty easy for most to understand tow ratings (well except for some RV salesmen that think anything can tow about anything else with some added springs and air bags and new tires; and, of course, Toyota and the shuttle etc.) but for most of us that is not the issue. What you are doing is bringing clarity to the payload vs tow rating issue, not reinventing the wheel and new definitions or providing new tow ratings.

Sounds good...link to a glossary...

Do you have a recommended link? While these terms make sense to you and I... Joe or Jane average has a limited if non existent understanding of them. But if there is a place we can point people to to gain a universal understanding I am all for it.

Thanks for the feedback! Please keep it coming!

Jeremiah

[jmtandem]

Okay guys and gals... I'm about to get back to work on this... Basically I want a newbie interested in towing to start at the beginning and gain a decent understanding of all these ratings...

So... May try to integrate a glossary of terms

Here is my short list

GVWR
GCVWR
AXLE RATINGS
TIRE RATINGS
TIRE CLASS
RECEIVER HITCH
RECEIVER HITCH RATING
DRAW BAR
BALL
WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION HITCH
SPRING BAR
SWAY CONTROL


can you think of anything else to add to a glossary of terms? Anybody want to volunteer to write a few brief one sentence descriptions of some of these terms?

Thanks!

Jeremiah

Most if not all of your definitions can be found in most towing guides. Why reinvent the wheel? Just use their definitions. I think it is pretty easy for most to understand tow ratings (well except for some RV salesmen that think anything can tow about anything else with some added springs and air bags and new tires; and, of course, Toyota and the shuttle etc.) but for most of us that is not the issue. What you are doing is bringing clarity to the payload vs tow rating issue, not reinventing the wheel and new definitions or providing new tow ratings.

[BenK]

jerem0621 wrote:
Okay guys and gals... I'm about to get back to work on this... Basically I want a newbie interested in towing to start at the beginning and gain a decent understanding of all these ratings...

So... May try to integrate a glossary of terms

Here is my short list

GVWR
GCVWR
AXLE RATINGS
TIRE RATINGS

definition of the word RATINGS and RECOMMENDATION

TIRE CLASS
RECEIVER HITCH

remove the word 'hitch'

RECEIVER HITCH RATING

ditto

add Dead Weight

DRAW BAR

add SHANK

BALL
WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION HITCH

add WDH

SPRING BAR

add TRUNNION

SWAY CONTROL


can you think of anything else to add to a glossary of terms? Anybody want to volunteer to write a few brief one sentence descriptions of some of these terms?

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[jerem0621]

Okay guys and gals... I'm about to get back to work on this... Basically I want a newbie interested in towing to start at the beginning and gain a decent understanding of all these ratings...

So... May try to integrate a glossary of terms

Here is my short list

GVWR
GCVWR
AXLE RATINGS
TIRE RATINGS
TIRE CLASS
RECEIVER HITCH
RECEIVER HITCH RATING
DRAW BAR
BALL
WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION HITCH
SPRING BAR
SWAY CONTROL


can you think of anything else to add to a glossary of terms? Anybody want to volunteer to write a few brief one sentence descriptions of some of these terms?

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[jerem0621]

Very cool calculator!

[ependydad]

Good idea. I tried doing the same thing with mobile-friendly web pages:
http://www.towingplanner.com/Calculators/

[Executive45]

Very nice job...

That said, I'd include the following at the beginning of your charts:

In general, the maximum amount of weight you can safely tow will be the lesser of the following:

• the GCWR (gross combination weight rating) of the MH minus the actual weight of the MH as it is loaded for travel (includes fuel, fresh water, food, clothing, people, pets, supplies, etc.)

• the weight rating of your tow bar

• the weight rating of your hitch

This caveat for the uninformed, which is where your charts are aimed....Dennis

[spud1957]

Jerimiah, you may want to read up on FMVSS No.110 regarding the cargo carrying capacity label. The CCC figure is GVWR less curb weight. The definition of curb weight is "the weight of a motor vehicle with standard equipment including the maximum capacity of fuel,oil and coolant,accessory equipment and addition weight optional engine.

There is no reference to a 150 driver included. As the label states, it is " occupants". Obviously the driver would be defined as an occupant. The code does assume all occupants weigh 150.

Now, the 150 pound driver is used when some manufacturers determine tow ratings.

I do stand to be corrected but this is what I have found.

On edit:Guess I took too long to type.
S