Brakes - No Brakes

[TX77705]

We were traveling on i81 near Roanoke VA in heavy stop and go traffic, on a very hot day, and decided to pull off to fuel up at a nearby Pilot. Brakes were fine up until we pulled up to pump to refuel. After refueling, we started to drive away when I felt the brake pedal go all the way to the floor. Luckily I was able to apply the e-brake and got the rig stopped. No dash lights came on to indicate any brake trouble, and a check of the brake fluid reservoir showed it full and no leaks. At this point, we called GS Roadside Assist for help (completely useless I might add, but that's another story), and after many calls back and forth the final outcome was that we were going to have to spend the weekend boondocked at this Pilot filling station. We settled in for the night, but after dark I thought I would give the brakes another check and found them to be working again. Back on the road, we completed our journey without further incident. Will have the rig into service tomorrow to have everything checked out, but wondering what could have caused this problem? Anyone have any similar experience or idea as to what could have caused this?

[Pirate1]

Same thing happened to me. Following another rv in stop/go traffic in Florida during summer. After several hours, Rv in front of me emergency stopped due to an idiot pulling in front of them. I slammed my pedal down, NO BRAKES. Slammed into low and used parking brake to stop after having to pull off road to avoid rear-ending rv in front of me. About 1 hour later, had brakes again. I learned then to keep the fluid changed every 2 years.

[wa8yxm]

Brake fluid (At least some of the formulas) are/is Hydroscopic

This means it sucks moisture out of the air, like salt.

Now, if the brakes get hot enough, WATER (Moisture) Boils turns into steam.

Unlike liquid, STEAM, can be compressed, rather easily.. And the pedal goes to the metal.. Sounds like this is what happened to you.

So the advice to flush the system and put in all new brake fluid.

Very good advice.

And have them inspect the rest of it while at it.. Whow knows...

True story follows: Got sued once for neglance causing an accident.. WAS PREAPARED when we went for the deposition.. They settled for the damage to the car my wife hit, actually, a bit less than that (Like 3 grand and change).

What happend.. A brake pad went AWOL as wife was approaching a red light., There being no where to turn to she hit the car in front of her.

Following up,, I removed the wheel with the defetive pad in the presence of two mechanics, both of whom observed the missing pad.

I still had the box the brake pads came in with the register tape stapled to the box.. Took that with me to the shyster ambulance chaser Kentucky Coronal of a lawyer's office for the deposition.

They settled out of court. One of the smallest settlements of that kind the insurance company ever paid.

And to the aforementioned lawyer.. If you perhaps should read this.. NOTE that I have not given your name or address.

[bsinmich]

TX77705 wrote:
We were traveling on i81 near Roanoke VA in heavy stop and go traffic, on a very hot day, and decided to pull off to fuel up at a nearby Pilot. Brakes were fine up until we pulled up to pump to refuel. After refueling, we started to drive away when I felt the brake pedal go all the way to the floor. Luckily I was able to apply the e-brake and got the rig stopped. No dash lights came on to indicate any brake trouble, and a check of the brake fluid reservoir showed it full and no leaks. At this point, we called GS Roadside Assist for help (completely useless I might add, but that's another story), and after many calls back and forth the final outcome was that we were going to have to spend the weekend boondocked at this Pilot filling station. We settled in for the night, but after dark I thought I would give the brakes another check and found them to be working again. Back on the road, we completed our journey without further incident. Will have the rig into service tomorrow to have everything checked out, but wondering what could have caused this problem? Anyone have any similar experience or idea as to what could have caused this?

When you find the problem please come back here and post the solution. One of the suggestions might have been the right one.

[Geocritter]

You don't say what part of TX you're from but if it's along the Gulf Coast you can bet that your 10 year old brake fluid is contaminated with water that it picked up just from being exposed to the humid Gulf air for 10 years.

My brother had a terrible time with brake fade in the Sierra Nevada's, it was old moisture contaminated brake fluid. I helped him and put in DOT 5.1 and he had no more problems.

Steve

Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_fluid

[mr__ed]

Is there a possibility the OP can look into synthetic brake fluid if he decides to change it? I realize not all braking systems are designed to make this change but perhaps it can be considered. IIRC, synthetic fluid is not hydroscopic.

[GSRoadsideAssis]

Thank you for your post, TX77705. I apologize for any difficulties you experienced regarding your membership. I would like the opportunity to speak with you concerning your post. I would be more than happy to contact you…please send me a private message with your Good Sam Roadside Assistance membership number and contact information: telephone and e-mail. I am looking forward to speaking with you. Thank you, Frank

[beemerphile1]

My guess is water contaminated brake fluid or master cylinder.

aruba5er, you obviously are a gambler, I hope your luck continues. Brake fluid is hygroscopic and will absorb water right through the rubber hoses.

[Community Alumni]

aruba5er wrote:
Flushing brake lines may be all and good, but todays vehicles have improved so much over the years that the dealer has no work to do so they make work. 3000 mile oil changes? Brake flush? just 2 of the many things to get you back into the service bay. Unless brake fluid has changed so much, my 2nd to last vehicle had 250k+ and was 27 years old and never had a transmisson oil change nor brake fluid change. It got new cooling fluid when I had to change the water pump. The transaxle and rear end were never changed nor where to front or rear wheel bearings greased Luck, I don't know.

So what do you think the OP's issue is, why did the pedal go away and then come back the next morning?

... Eric

[aruba5er]

Flushing brake lines may be all and good, but todays vehicles have improved so much over the years that the dealer has no work to do so they make work. 3000 mile oil changes? Brake flush? just 2 of the many things to get you back into the service bay. Unless brake fluid has changed so much, my 2nd to last vehicle had 250k+ and was 27 years old and never had a transmisson oil change nor brake fluid change. It got new cooling fluid when I had to change the water pump. The transaxle and rear end were never changed nor where to front or rear wheel bearings greased Luck, I don't know.

[bsinmich]

I flush my brake fluid every 2-3 years. I had my first experience with moisture in the brake fluid on my E350 '89 Jamboree when it was 2 years old. My Workhorse chassis had the brake recall for piston that would swell when the brake fluid got moisture in it. It takes a good 30 minutes for my son and I to flush the brake fluid and 3 Litres for the complete job.

[wcjeep]

Have your mechanic check the brake pads. They might have liquefied. The "stop and go" in hot weather would do it. After stopping for fuel your brakes no longer had air flow. When the pads cooled later they seem to work. This is partially true. You are now due for all new pads all the way around regardless of mileage or age. You may be due for new rotors/drums. Have your trusted mechanic inspect. When the pads cooled they crystallized. They can no longer be trusted for an emergency stop.

This is an advantage of diesel exhaust brake. The engine brake does most/all of the work during normal operation. This leaves the pads/caliper/rotor cool for maximum effect during an emergency.

As mentioned earlier, the brake fluid could also be bad. While brake fluid does not compress, the contaminants inside the fluid do compress. If you did liquefy the brake pads include a complete brake fluid flush. This entire repair will be expensive.

Again, have your certified mechanic inspect before leaving again. Do you have an infrared temperature gun? Did you take any readings?

[hmknightnc]

TX77705 wrote:
2004 Coachman 28' C on Ford E450 chassis with the V10 eng.

10 year old now contaminated brake fluid would be my guess as well. I drain, flush and completely replace brake fluid on all my tow vehicles every 3 years just for this reason.

[rockhillmanor]

2004 Coachman 28' C on Ford E450 chassis with the V10 eng.

BRAKE LINES

I came off a ramp after driving for 4 hours and had no brakes! Yup you do see you life flash before your eyes!

Collapsed Brake lines are a very common problem and ALWAYS overlooked by repair. The lines will look perfectly ok from the 'outside'.

BUT

They collapse on the 'inside'.

It can come an go until the fatal day you don't manage to stop. It's an accident waiting to happen if your mechanic is not knowledgeable about truck brake lines.

I managed to get to a semi truck repair shop that day and had new ones put on.

I did have to stay overnight because there are no aftermarket brake lines for the Ford E-450. I had to wait for the OEM parts to be delivered. I certainly did NOT have a problem waiting for them!

I recommend anyone buying a used MH to just go ahead and have the brake lines replace. IMHO a Small maintenance price to pay when you life is at hand.:C

[naturist]

This is just a wild guess on my part, but it was hot out today. Sitting at the pump, engine off, for 5 or 10 minutes, gives things under the hood plenty of time to get as hot as the engine, since there's no cooling air coming through the grill.

If it has been a long time since you had the brake fluid flushed and replaced, it is possible that the heat boiled it, which would give you no hydraulics. Brake fluid is notoriously attractive to moisture, and the effect of moisture in it is to lower the boiling point. Many auto makers, particularly those that make sports cars, but others as well, call for brake fluid flush, bleed, and fill every couple years. Volkswagen and BMW among them. It's just part of the routine maintenance.

If this was indeed what happened to you, you are fortunate that it didn't happen while you were going down some long steep hill somewhere.

But, as others have noted, there are other possible causes, too. All of which should be checked out. We want you to be safe out there.