Fifth wheel Towing Help

[jffkrn]

While planning on an upgrade soon, weight ratings have me baffled. I have plugged in the numbers on some weight calculators and they come up short of what I can tow including the trailer I am towing now!!! But, it gets better, the weight ratings show I am fine towing what I am now and the scales show me way in the good also. So here is my dilemma. Tow vehicle is a gasoline 2010 GMC Sierra 4X4 extended cab regular or short bed manufacture GVWR of 9900, 3:73 ear ratio. I am towing a travel trailer at 6400 lbs now without any issues. So the plan to upgrade to a fifth wheel with a GVWR of 13900 and hitch weith at 1955. Manufacture shows a GCVWR of tow vehicle at 16000. Going through the checks and balances of different calculators and using all the info I have I come up short of towing the new fifth wheel. Now the question is how come everyone is pulling a large fifth wheel with the weight ratings that don't work or not within spec? I am not one to ignore the specs, but just about ready too unless I by a 2 ton truck! I am sure my truck will handle the weight etc, tow ratings jump with different gear ratio and / or diesel so the truck is the same, just mechanical difference so fuel mileage will suffer is the main issue only? Am I crazy or what? Honest input will be helpful. I will get with some folks at PD commercial enforcement to help as well. Your input is welcome and I thank you in advance.

[Cummins12V98]

jffkrn wrote:
OK - So the actual numbers and info is /are:
2010 GMC Sierra HD 25004 X 4, 3:73 gears, extended cab, 6 1/2 ft bed.
owners manual says; Max trailer weight 9900 lbs 16000 GCWR
actual scale reads with full fuel and passengers 6840
front axle 3760 rear axle 3080
door sticker gvwr 9200 fr ax 4200 rr ax 6084
Trailer now that we are looking at is considered half ton towable with max gvwr at weighs in at 10320 uvwr 7550 hitch at 1520.
calculating all we carry at 2000 lbs, (recalculated all) I think we will be ok? ! ? ! ? Your input once again is welcome. Good Luck & Be Safe ! ! !

Should be good to go. 20% pin good 25% is close to max.

[jffkrn]

OK - So the actual numbers and info is /are:
2010 GMC Sierra HD 25004 X 4, 3:73 gears, extended cab, 6 1/2 ft bed.
owners manual says; Max trailer weight 9900 lbs 16000 GCWR
actual scale reads with full fuel and passengers 6840
front axle 3760 rear axle 3080
door sticker gvwr 9200 fr ax 4200 rr ax 6084
Trailer now that we are looking at is considered half ton towable with max gvwr at weighs in at 10320 uvwr 7550 hitch at 1520.
calculating all we carry at 2000 lbs, (recalculated all) I think we will be ok? ! ? ! ? Your input once again is welcome. Good Luck & Be Safe ! ! !

[rhagfo]

Golden_HVAC wrote:


Yes you would be crazy to use a 3/4 ton truck to tow a 10,000 pound fifth wheel with a 2,000 pound hitch weight.

Fred.

Many of us tow over 10,000# 5ers with a 3/4 ton. Newer 3/4 ton (AKA 250/2500)have payload capacity's in excess of 10,000# GVWR on the TV, giving payloads to handle a 10,000# 5er.

I tow an 11,000# wet, 9,820# dry, and 12,360# GVWR 5er with my 01 Ram, yep over GVWR, but still within axle & tire ratings. The only suspension enhancement is a full set of Bilstien 5100's.

NO I am not crazy, the truck does great towing this rig hills or flat.

Yep loaded for a great trip.

[Itching2go]

Here's my perspective after towing a 10,000 lb fiver with a 2006 Chevy 2500 HD for several years, including one trip from Indiana to the Grand Tetons, Yellowstone, and back home via the Black Hills. Could I do it? Yes. Was I crazy? No. Did I have any problems? No. But, I will tell you that it was a lot of work, and especially when driving any significant grades at altitude. It was what we had at the time, and I made it work. But since then, we've upgraded to our current 3500 D/A and the difference is night and day, even with a heavier trailer (13,000 lbs loaded). Can now use cruise control, and don't have to creep over the passes with my foot buried in the floorboard to just maintain 20 MPH. Oh... and did I tell you my MPG increased by some 40%?

So would I do it again? Yes, if that's the setup I have and am not in a position to upgrade. I didn't feel unsafe, just under equipped.

My experience. Others may have a different one.

[RCMAN46]

"Yes you would be crazy to use a 3/4 ton truck to tow a 10,000 pound fifth wheel with a 2,000 pound hitch weight."

I hope this was a typing error. If it is not I am sure there are thousands of crazy people towing 10,000 lb trailers with a 3/4 ton truck myself included.


Sorry had to correct a typing error. Misspelled typing.

[rhagfo]

jffkrn wrote:
Just an update to all, I am in the process of looking at other fifth wheels that are available. 2012 Keystone Cougar 299RKS has a similar floor plan and has a 10,000GVWR. It may be doable, so who knows. I guess a bummer for me as I was set on an Arctic Fox, but it should all work out in the end. So Thanks again for all the input. Jeff, Good Luck & Be Safe ! ! !

That should fit your 2500 just fine and the 6.0 gas should pull it just fine.

PS: I would not have tried to pull that 16,000# 5er with my 2500 diesel!

[mkirsch]

If you're not one to exceed the ratings, then the 9900lb tow rating should put the kaybosh on this mega-5er idea right off the bat.

A 13,900lb GVWR 5th wheel is going to be over 10,000lbs dry. 10,000+ > 9900.

The reality is that your actual "tow rating" based on real weights will be less than 9900lbs, but you're going to be way over the limit just using the manufacturer's optimistic tow ratings before you even start talking about real numbers...

[jffkrn]

Just an update to all, I am in the process of looking at other fifth wheels that are available. 2012 Keystone Cougar 299RKS has a similar floor plan and has a 10,000GVWR. It may be doable, so who knows. I guess a bummer for me as I was set on an Arctic Fox, but it should all work out in the end. So Thanks again for all the input. Jeff, Good Luck & Be Safe ! ! !

[Cummins12V98]

wclement1248 wrote:
You need to get the manufacturers specs and actual scale weights. According to ford, my 2014 4X2 F250 turbo diesel crew cab will tow 5ers up to 16,300. The payload is 3640. GCVWR is 26,000. The scale weight of the truck ready to go camping leaves me about 3,230 available for payload. This gives me plenty of room for towing many 5ers.
Jffkrn, I would think you have the capacity to tow a number of 5ers. Do your research and find a trailer that works

You would be overloaded according to your numbers to tow the RV you mention! 20% of 16,300 is 3,260# and if you use your RV more than just weekends the pin will easily reach 25% that is 4,075#.

This is where people get overloaded by using towing numbers instead of real world pin weights.

[Cummins12V98]

jffkrn wrote:
Thought I put it all in. HD2500 extended cab, 4 x 4 regular or 6foot 6 inch bed gvwr 9900, rear axle 6084 vehicle weight is at 5800thanks jeff

This is what you wrote "2010 GMC Sierra 4X4 extended cab regular or short bed manufacture GVWR of 9900, 3:73 ear ratio"

I am wondering if you meant to say 8,800# GVWR?????? You did not say it was a 2500.

Bottom line you are fine with your TT but the 5er is too much.

[jffkrn]

Thanks all for your input and recommendations. It is not what I wanted to hear, but it is what it is and I may be going back to my original endeavor to purchase a new TT, Arctic Fox 26 X that has a GVWR of 10400, UVWR is 6200 and we carry about 2500 lbs of clothing, food, water and supplies, this includes our extra gas, tools, generator and fire wood. This will put us at about 8700 make it 9000 for stuff we pick up on the road even though not full of water and fuel at all times, keeps us within the limits of our vehicle. We also go to some pretty remote places and want to keep somewhat smaller in length, so this may be the way for us. It may be future planned, but upgrade later, who knows! Again we appreciate your input and help. Good Luck & Be Safe ! ! !

[wclement1248]

You need to get the manufacturers specs and actual scale weights. According to ford, my 2014 4X2 F250 turbo diesel crew cab will tow 5ers up to 16,300. The payload is 3640. GCVWR is 26,000. The scale weight of the truck ready to go camping leaves me about 3,230 available for payload. This gives me plenty of room for towing many 5ers.
Jffkrn, I would think you have the capacity to tow a number of 5ers. Do your research and find a trailer that works

[lawrosa]

truck weight at scales is at 5800, front axle from door is 4200. The weight rating is last weigh in at scales subtracted form the total amount. I will still have to go to the scales without trailer, but should be pretty close. thanks Jeff

Thats fine the truck is 5800. But you need the individual axle weights from the scale of truck alone..

Say you weigh the truck and rear axle is 4084. Subtract that from your door tag of 6084 will leave you a 2000 pound payload. That would be your max tongue weight..

But once you put other passangers in the truck, the weight of the 5th wheel hitch, and any cargo that 2000 lbs goes down. So say you have an extra 1000 lbs in the truck with all of the above. That leaves you with 1000 pound tongue/payload.

You will not find a 5th wheel like that with a 1000 lb tongue from what I know...

Get those weights and post back.. We will guide you further...

[therink]

I believe with the 3:73 axle and gasser, the heaviest trailer you can pull (per the truck ratings) is 9900 lbs. With the 4:10 axle and gas 6.0, the rating jumps to 13900.
The pin weight of 1955 is dry pin weight. Ignore that. True pin weight will be calculated at around 20 percent of the loaded fiver weight. A fiver with gvwr of 13,900 will have a loaded pin weight of around 3000, which is too much for your 2500 or any 2500 for that matter.
With your truck, I would recommend a fiver with a gvwr of 10,000 or less. The truck in my signature with 4:10 axle (gasser) has a gvwr of 10800 (scaled payload of 3900). My fiver scaled weighs 12,280 loaded with a pin weight of 2500. This scenario is a good match for my truck. I am only offering this information for comparison sake.
Steve