If you know anyone with land, tell them to build an Rv Park

[StephJohn2010]

Record Rv sales are making it very hard to fulltime rv. We recently had to buy an second home in our favorite place because the monthly sites are fully booked basically all the time. Anyone else running into trouble booking a monthly like they used to? #buildmoreRVsites

[FunnyCamper]

RoyBell wrote:

2oldman wrote:

RoyBell wrote:
Online presence is huge nowadays. Sooooo many CGs are stuck in the 80 with zero web presence. Most of them you can't even book online yet!

My favorite is having a contact form on the site that they never respond to.

That is so annoying.

Here is what happens in my house.

1) We decide we can go camping xx weekend.
2) We talk about where we want to go.
3) We sit down after dinner and research CGs in the area. IE: 9pm.
4) Call the CGs, of course office is closed that late.
5) We realize we need to call in the AM.
6) We are both at work and forget all about it
7) We get home and yell at each other for not calling the CG
😎 Repeat for 2 weeks.
9) I finally remember to call around and everything is booked except for that rinky dink CG.
10) Wife gets pissed because it's not where she wanted to stay.

call during office hours?
oh my...99.9% of my bookings are done online at 11:30 pm at my home LOL
There is like the smallest amt of cgs that don't have online reservations anymore. Those few I do have to call annoy me also LOL

[westernrvparkow]

2oldman wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:
..having an automated system turn away customers I could potentially serve doesn't help me achieve that goal.

What does a fully automated system cost?

Initial costs around $20K and depending upon the system, $5K or more per year.

[2oldman]

westernrvparkowner wrote:
..having an automated system turn away customers I could potentially serve doesn't help me achieve that goal.

What does a fully automated system cost?

[westernrvparkow]

down home wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:

down home wrote:
It depends on the area of the Country as to how receptive or prohibitive in building an RV park.
In Tn, in a rural county near a popular stream, starting twenty years ago, a Fellow who worked for TVA had his own dozer and few pieces of equipment from his farm.
He built to pads at a time himself.
The ultimate design included planning the electrical grid with is a big expense.
He did the work himself and had it reviewed.
The septic system, if a pumped system is easier to get approved but takes a lot of effort to keep it pumped and costs.
He laid out his own septic drain field which was about twice the size of the park. The tanks were near the pads under concrete with access sealed access covers.
Many Rural Folks build their own homes and septic, everything so it is not like hitting a wall of doom and gloom doing such projects.

I didn't pull out slide rule and so forth with that bit.
Around here commercial is around 11 cents killowatt or was.
Septic system doesn't usually need hauling anything off.
Our system at last home was well built and never needed any service in 37 years.
Water, in the country usually means wells . On this property I can go down just a few feet for flowing water, anywhere, good water, filtered through sinks and limestone of the hills and mountains.
Oh I can run the numbers for you but it would take a week or so to gather the info on the location, the ground, the utilities available taxes, not that I'm going to.
And as far as payroll two thousand a month each is good.
A well laid out and built 50 sites would only require one zero turn and two push mowers and several other pieces of equipment.
Garbage collection would b a commercial firm with two dumpsters, I suppose.I don't have an idea on their cost.
Of course if you or family worked the store with one hired relief, it was assumed. Four Full Time Employees should do it.
You're in Washington I think. I have a SIL from there and know somewhat of the huge cost up there or anywhere in the Northwest.
The septic line depends on the location and soil or rock.
most ground in this part of the country perks like a sponge, but the mtns and hills are limestone.

You state four full time employees, yet only budget $2000 a month. That would average out paying those employees $2.89 per hour. That isn't going to get you very good help (or a pass from minimum wage laws). Even at minimum wage, with employer taxes, required unemployment insurance and required workman's comp insurance it costs the employer over $10.00 an hour to have an employee. And if you are using relatives and family members are they really OK with working without pay?
I stand corrected on septic systems and water systems. I wasn't aware I was responding to someone who was up to date on current codes. I guess Tennessee is either more progressive or regressive (depending upon your view) compared to the rest of the nation in that they allow their public water supplies to be free of regular testing and they don't have any regulations regarding how you dispose of septic waste. Simple general knowledge that Tennessee water filters thru limestone and the ground soaks up water like a sponge apparently fulfills all of Tennessee's Department of Environmental and Conservation (that's the actual regulatory agency, I looked it up) requirements. I guess Tennessee must have no budgetary concerns because even with that common knowledge they have entire departments within that agency dedicated to Water Quality and Waste Disposal. Seems like they could save a lot of money eliminating those departments and their employees since those issues are apparently of no concern.

[down_home]

westernrvparkowner wrote:

down home wrote:
It depends on the area of the Country as to how receptive or prohibitive in building an RV park.
In Tn, in a rural county near a popular stream, starting twenty years ago, a Fellow who worked for TVA had his own dozer and few pieces of equipment from his farm.
He built to pads at a time himself.
The ultimate design included planning the electrical grid with is a big expense.
He did the work himself and had it reviewed.
The septic system, if a pumped system is easier to get approved but takes a lot of effort to keep it pumped and costs.
He laid out his own septic drain field which was about twice the size of the park. The tanks were near the pads under concrete with access sealed access covers.
Many Rural Folks build their own homes and septic, everything so it is not like hitting a wall of doom and gloom doing such projects.

I didn't pull out slide rule and so forth with that bit.
Around here commercial is around 11 cents killowatt or was.
Septic system doesn't usually need hauling anything off.
Our system at last home was well built and never needed any service in 37 years.
Water, in the country usually means wells . On this property I can go down just a few feet for flowing water, anywhere, good water, filtered through sinks and limestone of the hills and mountains.
Oh I can run the numbers for you but it would take a week or so to gather the info on the location, the ground, the utilities available taxes, not that I'm going to.
And as far as payroll two thousand a month each is good.
A well laid out and built 50 sites would only require one zero turn and two push mowers and several other pieces of equipment.
Garbage collection would b a commercial firm with two dumpsters, I suppose.I don't have an idea on their cost.
Of course if you or family worked the store with one hired relief, it was assumed. Four Full Time Employees should do it.
You're in Washington I think. I have a SIL from there and know somewhat of the huge cost up there or anywhere in the Northwest.
The septic line depends on the location and soil or rock.
most ground in this part of the country perks like a sponge, but the mtns and hills are limestone.
The "store" can cost however elaborate you want it. Add fifty thousand for assembled rustic style 25x40 bldg insulated on pad and heat and air and septic line. Coolers and supplies rental agreement with vendors butt I would buy.
This is all an exercise in is it feasable not brass tacks to costs etc. It assumes who ever built it would do a large part of off the construction.
And it was all from recollection of what a Client did.

[westernrvparkow]

2oldman wrote:

westernrvparkowner wrote:
Fact is there are just too many variables to turn over many RV park's reservations to an automated system.

The state of WA has a totally automated booking system that's worked just fine for me and apparently others. I don't know what goes on behind the scenes on the phone, but they haven't shut it down yet.

Good for them. Unlike the state of Washington where registration fees cover 58 percent of the costs, I have to pay all my expenses out of revenues. I have no idea if their reservation system maximizes occupancy of each and every site. But I sure haven't seen a system (and I have looked at many), that comes close to being able to accomplish that task. I can't afford to have system that says "sorry, no space available" when it is possible that I can either move reservations from one site to the next to make that stay happen, or offer the guest potential alternative options that may, in fact, work. I have to "make hay while the sun shines" and having an automated system turn away customers I could potentially serve doesn't help me achieve that goal.

[2oldman]

westernrvparkowner wrote:
Fact is there are just too many variables to turn over many RV park's reservations to an automated system.

The state of WA has a totally automated booking system that's worked just fine for me and apparently others. I don't know what goes on behind the scenes on the phone, but they haven't shut it down yet.

[hokeypokey]

john&bet wrote:
I got the acreage. But the corn and soybeans are alot less hassle for me and a lot more profitable. Oh, and I am to far off of any beaten path with enough RV traffic.

Our land renter puts the check in our bank account 2x a year and we mail the real estate taxes off to the county 2x a year, what could be easier ? Our total annual expense is 2 postage stamps. Renter won’t even let us pay for fence repairs, he says he has fencing supplies around so we shouldn’t worry about it.

[RoyBell]

westernrvparkowner wrote:

RoyBell wrote:
We have noticed over the past couple years our favorite spots book up FAST. Supposedly millennials are going crazy with camping. I am 35 and started camping when I was 24 so take that for what it's worth. It got huge when recession hit because it was cheap entertainment. Well, not really cheap anymore. Now sites are $75/night because the places are packed and can charge it. We always debate getting rid of camper and getting a boat because the sites are getting pricey and crowded. We can book hotel rooms and be money ahead over the extra fuel and ownership costs of an RV.

More CGs would be nice. Would like to see more with Full hookup. I don't know what it adds to the cost of building, but I would gladly pay an extra $5-10/night to not have to wait in line at a cleanout or plan my exit/entry to the CG by the line at the cleanout.

joelm wrote:
We are in the process of developing a park. Westernrvparkowners numbers are close to what we are coming up with for the sites. Office, store, rec area,pool, etc, we are looking at 400k. My brother/partner is a contractor so savings there.
One of the mistakes I see people making is building where there is no reason for anyone wanting to stay. Just because you own a piece of property doesn't mean it is a good location for a park.
We are also going to spend time and money marketing beginning a year before opening. A good website with a proper marketing plan and budget will pay dividends.

Online presence is huge nowadays. Sooooo many CGs are stuck in the 80 with zero web presence. Most of them you can't even book online yet! It's 2017. If you can book any Michigan state park online, you should be able to book any private CG online. It costs some money, but they don't need someone sitting at the phone all day saying "no sorry, we are booked". Nothing I hate more than calling 40 CGs and getting the same response when I could just check their website to see if they have any spots avail.

First and foremost, There is no excuse for parks that don't respond within a designated response time. If it is in season, they should respond with a short period of time during business hours and almost immediately at the beginning of the next business day, should the request come after hours. During the off season, a clearly stated policy should be front and center and adhered to. If those two responses do not happen, they are irresponsible and dropping the ball Period, end of story.
But a totally online booking system is way too complicated for many parks, including mine. We have multiple sites that only take certain types of rigs or certain size rigs. A large number of our guests have specific site requirements that cannot be requested and administered with an online system. Things like they must be near the restrooms, must be satellite friendly, must be near the dog park, pull thru, views in certain directions, must have multiple sites side by side etc.
Then there is the fact that it get way more complicated the longer the stay. With a bunch of one or two night stays, it's relatively easy to move people around and keep everyone happy. When you start juggling 7 or more night stays, it becomes virtually impossible. You can't split those reservations, people don't want to move once they get set up.
Finally, people will sometimes "exaggerate" to attempt to get the site they want. They will lengthen their rigs, thinking they will get a bigger site. They will shorten their rigs, if a response were to come back "no site are available to accommodate your RV", They will "forget" to include the car hauler trailer or the boat being towed behind the fifth wheel. Many people figure once a reservation is confirmed, it becomes the problem of the park to meet all their unspoken requirements.
You just don't have most of these concerns in a hotel setting. The rooms are pretty much the same. There just isn't too many special requests to complicate the reservation process. If they screw up, the rooms assigned will still work, even if not to the customers complete satisfaction.
Fact is there are just too many variables to turn over many RV park's reservations to an automated system.

I see your point completely and it makes a lot of sense. I am not saying to get rid of phone booking. It is nice looking at a map of campsites so you have an idea where you are booking though (in relation to bathrooms, parks, etc) so you have a visual idea of the location. We are pretty easy campers. Any place is good for us as long as it's not a nasty hard to level site 🙂

[westernrvparkow]

RoyBell wrote:
We have noticed over the past couple years our favorite spots book up FAST. Supposedly millennials are going crazy with camping. I am 35 and started camping when I was 24 so take that for what it's worth. It got huge when recession hit because it was cheap entertainment. Well, not really cheap anymore. Now sites are $75/night because the places are packed and can charge it. We always debate getting rid of camper and getting a boat because the sites are getting pricey and crowded. We can book hotel rooms and be money ahead over the extra fuel and ownership costs of an RV.

More CGs would be nice. Would like to see more with Full hookup. I don't know what it adds to the cost of building, but I would gladly pay an extra $5-10/night to not have to wait in line at a cleanout or plan my exit/entry to the CG by the line at the cleanout.

joelm wrote:
We are in the process of developing a park. Westernrvparkowners numbers are close to what we are coming up with for the sites. Office, store, rec area,pool, etc, we are looking at 400k. My brother/partner is a contractor so savings there.
One of the mistakes I see people making is building where there is no reason for anyone wanting to stay. Just because you own a piece of property doesn't mean it is a good location for a park.
We are also going to spend time and money marketing beginning a year before opening. A good website with a proper marketing plan and budget will pay dividends.

Online presence is huge nowadays. Sooooo many CGs are stuck in the 80 with zero web presence. Most of them you can't even book online yet! It's 2017. If you can book any Michigan state park online, you should be able to book any private CG online. It costs some money, but they don't need someone sitting at the phone all day saying "no sorry, we are booked". Nothing I hate more than calling 40 CGs and getting the same response when I could just check their website to see if they have any spots avail.

First and foremost, There is no excuse for parks that don't respond within a designated response time. If it is in season, they should respond with a short period of time during business hours and almost immediately at the beginning of the next business day, should the request come after hours. During the off season, a clearly stated policy should be front and center and adhered to. If those two responses do not happen, they are irresponsible and dropping the ball Period, end of story.
But a totally online booking system is way too complicated for many parks, including mine. We have multiple sites that only take certain types of rigs or certain size rigs. A large number of our guests have specific site requirements that cannot be requested and administered with an online system. Things like they must be near the restrooms, must be satellite friendly, must be near the dog park, pull thru, views in certain directions, must have multiple sites side by side etc.
Then there is the fact that it get way more complicated the longer the stay. With a bunch of one or two night stays, it's relatively easy to move people around and keep everyone happy. When you start juggling 7 or more night stays, it becomes virtually impossible. You can't split those reservations, people don't want to move once they get set up.
Finally, people will sometimes "exaggerate" to attempt to get the site they want. They will lengthen their rigs, thinking they will get a bigger site. They will shorten their rigs, if a response were to come back "no site are available to accommodate your RV", They will "forget" to include the car hauler trailer or the boat being towed behind the fifth wheel. Many people figure once a reservation is confirmed, it becomes the problem of the park to meet all their unspoken requirements.
You just don't have most of these concerns in a hotel setting. The rooms are pretty much the same. There just isn't too many special requests to complicate the reservation process. If they screw up, the rooms assigned will still work, even if not to the customers complete satisfaction.
Fact is there are just too many variables to turn over many RV park's reservations to an automated system.

[RoyBell]

2oldman wrote:

RoyBell wrote:
Online presence is huge nowadays. Sooooo many CGs are stuck in the 80 with zero web presence. Most of them you can't even book online yet!

My favorite is having a contact form on the site that they never respond to.

That is so annoying.

Here is what happens in my house.

1) We decide we can go camping xx weekend.
2) We talk about where we want to go.
3) We sit down after dinner and research CGs in the area. IE: 9pm.
4) Call the CGs, of course office is closed that late.
5) We realize we need to call in the AM.
6) We are both at work and forget all about it
7) We get home and yell at each other for not calling the CG
😎 Repeat for 2 weeks.
9) I finally remember to call around and everything is booked except for that rinky dink CG.
10) Wife gets pissed because it's not where she wanted to stay.

[2oldman]

RoyBell wrote:
Online presence is huge nowadays. Sooooo many CGs are stuck in the 80 with zero web presence. Most of them you can't even book online yet!

My favorite is having a contact form on the site that they never respond to.

[RoyBell]

We have noticed over the past couple years our favorite spots book up FAST. Supposedly millennials are going crazy with camping. I am 35 and started camping when I was 24 so take that for what it's worth. It got huge when recession hit because it was cheap entertainment. Well, not really cheap anymore. Now sites are $75/night because the places are packed and can charge it. We always debate getting rid of camper and getting a boat because the sites are getting pricey and crowded. We can book hotel rooms and be money ahead over the extra fuel and ownership costs of an RV.

More CGs would be nice. Would like to see more with Full hookup. I don't know what it adds to the cost of building, but I would gladly pay an extra $5-10/night to not have to wait in line at a cleanout or plan my exit/entry to the CG by the line at the cleanout.

joelm wrote:
We are in the process of developing a park. Westernrvparkowners numbers are close to what we are coming up with for the sites. Office, store, rec area,pool, etc, we are looking at 400k. My brother/partner is a contractor so savings there.
One of the mistakes I see people making is building where there is no reason for anyone wanting to stay. Just because you own a piece of property doesn't mean it is a good location for a park.
We are also going to spend time and money marketing beginning a year before opening. A good website with a proper marketing plan and budget will pay dividends.

Online presence is huge nowadays. Sooooo many CGs are stuck in the 80 with zero web presence. Most of them you can't even book online yet! It's 2017. If you can book any Michigan state park online, you should be able to book any private CG online. It costs some money, but they don't need someone sitting at the phone all day saying "no sorry, we are booked". Nothing I hate more than calling 40 CGs and getting the same response when I could just check their website to see if they have any spots avail.

[FunnyCamper]

wouldn't touch that biz with a 391/2 foot pole, just us 🙂

[Mr_Mark1]

joelm wrote:
Not sure name yet. Just outside of Yosemite on Hwy 120

Congratulations on your new venture!

Hope that your Park will have pull-through's to accommodate 45 ft. coaches with a tow vehicle. 😄

Safe travels,
MM.