Installation of the Amish Cooling Coil Units

[Larry_1190]

I have a 2011 Carriage 5th Wheel and I'm concerned about this Norcold refrigerator fire problem. My question is has anyone had the Amish coil cooling unit installed in there unit, if so who done it and where are they located. I live in North Florida. According to Carriage all the recalls were done on my 5th wheel before it left the factory (Feb 2011) for the dealer. Now I see all these forums about campers of all makes and models going up in flames even though they too had these band aid fixes by Norcold.

S/F

[Dutch_12078]

Galvanizd wrote:

One problem I noted is that Norcold is getting sued. Can they survive that?, dunno.

Keep in mind that Norcold is owned by RV industry giant Thetford Corporation. I'd expect they're well insured for product liability.

[Dutch_12078]

I think perhaps we need to differentiate between the new replacement cooling units built by Pines RV Refrigeration, that happens to be owned and operated by an Amish family, and remanufactured units sold by others that use Amish workers and may or may not be Amish owned. The cooling units with the best reputation so far do appear to be those made by Pines and sold by David Force.

[JJBIRISH]

Rest assured I am NOT condemning the Amish built units or anyone’s decision to buy or use them…
I am sorry you had your problem to begin with and that you felt you had to use an outside marketer/builder because of safety reasons… I also hope your repair last forever or at least 30 years…
I am trying to be realistic and I have and continue to try to keep abreast of the issue because someday I may be faced with the same decision… while I have a nine year NorCold luckily it’s not the 1200 series and not a double wide that seem to have additional and/or unique problems…

While I understand about the concerns about a law suit and if they could withstand it, I would be more concerned about a small company being able to weather the same thing… or the ability to recover the loss of an expensive RV due to a fire from a Amish farmer or its’ independent marketer…

I know of some problems with replaced units unfortunately and we all have heard about the fires with the OEM… I try to keep these things in perspective in my own mind but it’s hard to find good information at times…
I don’t know of any fires caused by the Amish built units (that’s good) but I don’t know what their sales or failure rates are (or NorColds for that matter)… I believe the picture I posted would have resulted in a fire if the fridge was being operated on propane at the time of the leak… I also know of a couple of fires in Amish homes reportedly caused by refrigeration (no electric) but never found any follow-up details… many of the fire investigations I have been able to follow turned out to be caused by other sources near the fridge (electrical wiring)…

I wish more would post about the subject, it seems that sometimes settlements erase the truth… I think the happens with a popular RV hitch that only has positive reviews and writings…

Anyway I will let it go and just keep watching… good night everyone…

[Galvanizd]

I have a 2003 Monaco Dipl with a Norcold 1200 RLIM unit. I had the recall done about a year and a half ago. Until Jan of this year the unit has worked fine. In january the control board started blowing fuses. Then in February, the ammonia smell and the cooling unit failed. I spent the next month looking at cooling units made by Norcold and by the cooling Unit Warehouse (Amish). I looked at a Samsung residential refrigerator but could not make it work without doing major modifications to the refrigerator cabinet and giving up one of my furnaces.

I pulled the refrigerator to inspect the cooling unit. I did this myself without taking it to a shop. It wasn't that difficult. I built a platform with wheels and was able to remove the refrigerator from the cabinet by myself. I followed the videos and photos and instructions of those that have done this before me. There are alot of them. You can find many of them on the Cooling Unit Warehouse website.

I noticed that my cooling unit had failed at the exact place that the recall had been done. They attach a metal band with an electrode around the metal of the cooling unit and thats they're "fix". I wasn't impressed. It looked like a fairly cheap fix for a major problem. Norcold obviously came up with this "fix" but doesn't have much control over the manner and expertise in which the fix is installed.

My replacement choices were narrowed down to two. Norcold or Cooling Unit Warehouse (Amish)

I chose the Amish for the following reasons. I found that I was able to replace it myself. The Amish unit comes with a 5 year warranty. I was able to call the Cooling Unit Warehouse and speak directly to David Force who provided excellent info. Comparing the two units side by side, the Amish unit appears to be made stronger with more coils.

Now, the brand new Norcold Cooling unit is probably a good unit. Camping World is still installing them. It appears to be the same standard unit. One problem I noted is that Norcold is getting sued. Can they survive that?, dunno.

There may be other choices but that's how I went. I got a couple of friends to help me install the new amish cooling unit. We leaned it over and layed it on its face and replaced the cooling unit, new air shield, two new fans, two heating elements and a new "Dinosaur" control board. After the refrigerator was out and ready, the new installation took us 6 hours. I have about $1500.00 invested. I have the cooling setting on "2" and the unit cools to about 35 or 36 degrees. It works fine.

Again, I had no problems with my Norcold unit for 10 years. I have watched one other rv burn , we believe it may have been the cooling unit.

I'm always concerned with fires but I'm not sure I would do anything with a 2 year old unit except maybe as others have stated about the fire extinquishers.

[Cloud_Dancer]

I suppose all of them are capable of ending up with a weak spot which might corrode quicker, and begin to leak.
However, if the Pines RV Refrigeration unit is made with a higher-quality steel tubing, seamless and of heavier wall as well, IMO this by itself will lower the chances of ending up with a weak spot. But, the weld itself (the bead) can also develop a hairline crack due to improper technique or cooling.
I bought one because of the lower price PLUS I believed what David Force told me. He certainly did NOT say anything of the product being superior due to the "Amish" connection. And, I certainly don't assume that the Amish people inherently produce better products. In fact, some of the choices of material, and some of the construction quality, of my Newmar Dutch Star "box" was substandard.
BTW my original Norcold 1200 cooling unit worked perfectly for 7-1/2 years, and I have no reason to doubt that this one won't at least equal that performance.
But, if it fails I'll post about it right here.

[rhagfo]

Dutch_12078 wrote:

JJBIRISH wrote:
there are several on here that have had them installed…
I’m not sure there are enough of them to make any kind of comparison, and what is the real difference in them that makes them any better???
Marketing aside, Who’s to say they won’t catch fire???

I’m not sure what Amish made really means or what is better about them…
all companies that make them claim theirs to be the best available…

The new Norcold units built by Pines RV Refrigeration and sold by David Force's Cooling Unit Warehouse are made using a thicker wall tubing than the OEM and a different coil pattern. Pines is indeed an Amish owned and operated company located on a traditional Amish farm in Shipshewana, IN. The owner is Larry Miller, and the tubing is formed and welded by his brother in law, Harley, at JC Refrigeration located a few farms down the road, prior to final assembly and testing at Pines. There is a very detailed post on another forum by someone who was in Shipshewana for repairs to his KZ TT and visited their facilities after winning a contest sponsored by David Force. They also do installations there.

I bought one of these units for my Norcold in our old 86 King of the Road. Called and talked with David before ordering, I am a skeptic by nature, it was a very good conversation. I bought a rebuilt unit, that needed to run on the lowest setting to keep the refer above 32 degrees.

Totally satisfied, would buy from them again.

[JJBIRISH]

Trlrboy wrote:
If the Amish tag line is supposed to make this a "better" product I would have my doubts considering the fine Amish "craftsmanship" we see in the RV's themselves.

That is a very unfair statement that is to often made by people who hold something against them or lack of knowledge about their role in the RV building business…

You get what you get from lack of training, improper tooling, and shorting build times, to maximize profits, and by far most of all poor management…

[JJBIRISH]

Dutch_12078 wrote:

JJBIRISH wrote:
I appreciate your opinion and have a great deal of respect of it… although honestly have almost no faith or respect in the BBB ratings, but they are a tool that can be used just the same…
All the early evidence points to it being a good product but I think the NC 1200 double wide series is the only ones using their own design, all the others can be new or remaned, but I could be wrong about that…

I hope they prove to be as good as claimed, because someday I may need one… it’s an expensive part for an expensive appliance that just must work…
Thanks…

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of BBB ratings either, but I thought the drastic difference in this case was noteworthy. I should have been clearer that I was primarily speaking of the 1200 series design. The other models are available in either new or remanned, the buyers choice. I think the 1200 is the only model they refuse to remanufacture due to its fundamental design faults. The new units are built with the same thicker wall tubing as the 1200's though. I don't know either if any design changes have been made, or were needed, in the other models. My 18 year old Norcold 6182 still works perfectly and shows no obvious signs of corrosion, but I will definitely use a new Pines unit if it should need a replacement before I move on to a different rig.

Just to be fair I am not as impressed with the Amish cu’s or do I buy the marketing hype…

The Amish are people like us… their craftsmanship is in the fore front and born from need… almost all were raised with a general building knowledge and work ethic… like others each of their craftsmen are so in the fields they best fit, but not all arise to the occasion and not all are craftsmen per say…

Amish quality is a term that is used in marketing, and very often misused in marketing for profit…

I am very aware of the Amish abilities and inabilities and see them at work and working everyday…
I hope this company lives up to the hype so when I need a cu the choice is as easy as just buying a Amish unit… but so far as I said the jury is still out, their reputation is great, but I have also read about and have seen evidence of failures with the Amish units, including the totally redesigned 1200 NorCold series…

You can see the sodium chromate leaking from the boiler around the electric cartridge holders… had the fridge been used on propane would have also caught fire (picture from another blog site) Amish cooling unit under 2 years old…



I hope to read many more honest and true first hand experiences about them in the future…



I really hope unlike one of the most popular top of the line hitches that keeps reporting and customer enthusiasm high by what seems to be the elimination of the factual negative reviews won’t happen here…

[Trlrboy]

If the Amish tag line is supposed to make this a "better" product I would have my doubts considering the fine Amish "craftsmanship" we see in the RV's themselves.

[Dutch_12078]

JJBIRISH wrote:
I appreciate your opinion and have a great deal of respect of it… although honestly have almost no faith or respect in the BBB ratings, but they are a tool that can be used just the same…
All the early evidence points to it being a good product but I think the NC 1200 double wide series is the only ones using their own design, all the others can be new or remaned, but I could be wrong about that…

I hope they prove to be as good as claimed, because someday I may need one… it’s an expensive part for an expensive appliance that just must work…
Thanks…

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of BBB ratings either, but I thought the drastic difference in this case was noteworthy. I should have been clearer that I was primarily speaking of the 1200 series design. The other models are available in either new or remanned, the buyers choice. I think the 1200 is the only model they refuse to remanufacture due to its fundamental design faults. The new units are built with the same thicker wall tubing as the 1200's though. I don't know either if any design changes have been made, or were needed, in the other models. My 18 year old Norcold 6182 still works perfectly and shows no obvious signs of corrosion, but I will definitely use a new Pines unit if it should need a replacement before I move on to a different rig.

[Ivylog]

While not a great picture of a Norcold cooling unit, it will give you some idea about the difference in the amount of coils compared to a Amish one.
The NoCool 1200 does not have enough coils for the size refer.

[RV-1_2n-FUN]

Larry 1190 wrote:
I have a 2011 Carriage 5th Wheel and I'm concerned about this Norcold refrigerator fire problem. My question is has anyone had the Amish coil cooling unit installed in there unit, if so who done it and where are they located. I live in North Florida. According to Carriage all the recalls were done on my 5th wheel before it left the factory (Feb 2011) for the dealer. Now I see all these forums about campers of all makes and models going up in flames even though they too had these band aid fixes by Norcold.

S/F

Another you-tube video on how to install

[JJBIRISH]

I appreciate your opinion and have a great deal of respect of it… although honestly have almost no faith or respect in the BBB ratings, but they are a tool that can be used just the same…
All the early evidence points to it being a good product but I think the NC 1200 double wide series is the only ones using their own design, all the others can be new or remaned, but I could be wrong about that…

I hope they prove to be as good as claimed, because someday I may need one… it’s an expensive part for an expensive appliance that just must work…
Thanks…

[Dutch_12078]

I agree that "Amish" does not automatically confer quality on a product, although in the case of Pines, their growing reputation is certainly leaning that way. As for comparing them or their units to World Class RV Refrigeration, I'm not impressed with World Class at all. They too are about 10 years old, having incorporated in 2004. Based on their web site, they do not build completely new units, they manufacture old units, galvanizing the evaporator as you said, and replacing the boiler with their own design. They also have an 'F' BBB rating. Pines on the other hand, has been in business since 2002, has an 'A+' BBB rating, and builds their new units entirely from scratch, using their own designs for the coils and boiler. The anecdotal reports on this and other forums seem to indicate that the Pines design is more efficient, providing better cooling than the OEM version. Long term reliability? We don't know the complete history of all of the units they've built for residential and RV use, so it's difficult to extrapolate that of course. With Norcold LRIM units failing in as little as a year or two though, I'd think the odds are certainly better with a Pines unit.