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ProPride and lifted 3500

ApexAZ
Explorer
Explorer
Hi all,

We just applied for financing on a 2021 Fuel F-287.

Assuming the loan gets approved, we should be picking the unit up on the 18th. I have a 2020 Denali 3500 SRW that I put a 4" suspension lift and larger 35" tires on, which put us just a wee bit too high to fit a 5th wheel, so we opted for a bumper pull.

A couple questions I have are:

My truck is rated at 20k conventional hitch weight with 2k tongue weight, and a CGVW of 29700. The trailer has a GVWR of 12,800 and I'm guessing the truck probably weighs in around 8500 curb weight (I plan to try and weigh it soon if I can find a place), which will put me at around 22.5k max combined weight when factoring in passengers and added cargo. Obviously the lift and bigger tires reduce capacity, but does anyone know just how much? I'll still be about 7k under the stock CGVW and conventional hitch figure.

Does anyone have a similar truck who have upgraded their brakes? Is this an option to improve stopping power?

I'm looking at the ProPride 3P hitch. Trailer sway makes me nervous and the lift compounds that. I'm hoping this will make towing safer. Anyone have experience with these and are they worth the $? If they work as advertised, it seems like money well spent for added safety. Any cons? It seems to add a few feet to overall length. Should I assume I'll need some air bags too?

I have seen several comments on various forums that people replace the stock hitch receiver with a class 5. In looking at some of those, the ratings are all very similar to that 2k/20k capacity, so I'm wondering if that's something I should worry about, or is the stock one already a class 5 and sufficient? I can't seem to find any info on the GMC pages.

Thanks so much!

Brian
51 REPLIES 51

Grit_dog
Navigator
Navigator
Nice setup!!
Regarding maneuvering that big ole trailer in tight quarters, watch your tail swing and especially that ladder that sticks out on the other side.
I been pulling about anything that will hitch to a pickup truck since about 1988 and I managed to smear the ladder against a bollard at a gas station 3rd time out! Original owner who used it once in 4 years also hit the ladder. It was tweaked when I bought it.
Fortunately I was able to hammer the brackets and ladder back in shape and repair the ladder and trailer and reinstall. The one place I found a new ladder after searching, was about 5x as expensive as standard RV ladders.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5โ€ turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

ApexAZ
Explorer
Explorer
MFL wrote:
OP...not sure which Dewalt pancake you have, but mine will get to 165 psi fairly quick, and capable of filling your tires easily. It is also lt wt, about 35 lbs.


Mine is very similar and it will do 80 psi tires if I let it run between tires. It's just kinda bulky and don't necessarily want to haul it around. I can certainly fill my tires at home, but not sure when on the road. I found a product called Viair that are fairly compact that can do it, but they are like $300.

MFL
Nomad II
Nomad II
OP...not sure which Dewalt pancake you have, but mine will get to 165 psi fairly quick, and capable of filling your tires easily. It is also lt wt, about 35 lbs.

IdaD
Explorer
Explorer
I think it's worth keeping a 20-30 gallon compressor in the garage with a long hose that can stretch out. They do a lot better going up to higher pressures and I don't personally like running my rear tires at 80 unless I'm towing so it's convenient to be able to air up for a trip and then drop it back down when I get back. Plus the trailer tires need to be topped off semi-regularly.

Nice setup. I haven't read through all of this thread but I think you are way below the point of stressing the truck at all even with the lift as long as your tires and wheels are up to it which I imagine is no issue.
2015 Cummins Ram 4wd CC/SB

blt2ski
Moderator
Moderator
For filling tires, I've personally found it has more to do with tank size, assuming equal max pressure available from compressor. At some point in time small tank, compressor can't keep up.

Pancake tanks are great for nail guns etc. BUT if running a say a ratchet wrench, filling tires. Not as doable.

Marty
92 Navistar dump truck, 7.3L 7 sp, 4.33 gears with a Detroit no spin
2014 Chevy 1500 Dual cab 4x4
92 Red-e-haul 12K equipment trailer

ApexAZ
Explorer
Explorer
Grit dog wrote:
Apex,
Trust your gut here and don't let the others over-complicate this for you. You pulled it, it handles good, end of story. Next step is tow it somewhere to enjoy some time with ZERO worry about your truck doing the job very well!


Agree. Initially I was pretty nervous about it, but I got the WD set up and the truck seems to have no problem pulling it. I've been up and down from Phoenix to Payson and it performed great!

My only worry right now is backing the thing up and getting it through the 10' gate where we are storing it lol. But practice makes perfect. We have a trip to a KOA RV resort in Tucson planned in December and we're excited for that!

I also have a minor leak at the toilet and a weird furnace fan noise that I'm bringing it in for in a few weeks.

By the way, I'll need to air up the tires. I have a DeWalt pancake compressor that can fill up to 80 psi (barely), but are there smaller portable compressors that can do this? I don't necessarily want to carry a heavy compressor around. What do people do to fill their tires?

EDIT: Attached a pic of the truck (with kiddie tires) and trailer. I'll get one of both in a week or so.



Grit_dog
Navigator
Navigator
Apex,
Trust your gut here and don't let the others over-complicate this for you. You pulled it, it handles good, end of story. Next step is tow it somewhere to enjoy some time with ZERO worry about your truck doing the job very well!
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5โ€ turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

ApexAZ
Explorer
Explorer
BenK wrote:

Since lifted and higher CG, hope your track was also increased significantly with aftermarket wheel offset. That lessens the tip over point or angle. Hope your lift system has double shocks and increased torsional rate anti-lean bars. Higher durometer anti-lean bars as noted by BackOfThePack is also a good idea if you haven't already (Delrin would be my choice and suggest staying away from nylon types).

Some lift kits has blocks that are angled to point the diff U-Joint upwards. Bad and will wear out that U-Joint quickly. Both output shaft and diff pinion shaft center lines MUST be parallel no matter what changes to the Z height the lift introduces. Stick with square blocks.

Fun stuff and enjoy your setup !


Don't think the lift came with anti-sway bars; at least I think that's what you mean. It's a suspension sub frame lift with torsion bar adjustment and square blocks in the back (not angled). The wheels do widen the stance by about 2" on each side. Going the speed limit, and even under during 75 mph limit stretches, I haven't felt like the truck is leaning too much around corners. I also reduce speed down to caution sign recommendations.

It's a 4" lift going from 33's to 35's. It's not extreme. But I also acknowledge it still raises the center of gravity and I just need to go a bit slower than I would otherwise.

I once towed a popup camper with a Tacoma without WD and THAT was sketchy. With my current truck, I don't feel any slop or drift in the steering. It feels fairly well planted.

Anyway, it's the truck I have and it's the truck I'll have to tow with.

BenK
Explorer
Explorer
Glad you are asking and taking in the advice and note that on these freebie forums...the advice is worth the price paid and that advisors have zero skin in your game.

Agree with most of BackOfThePack's info. As it makes sense to me and has many aspects of the laws of physics. Though there are more in play that many don't care to even think about.

On that, all things engineered/designed/etc are NOT for the good days out there when a mid-sized half ton can tow a stripper Space Shuttle...or a VW compact can tow a 747...but...for that day Mr Murphy crosses either your path or someone else's path to bring them into your path. So either you have the right stuff & dialed in spot on. As there won't be time to go back to the store or reset up.

The designers can NOT design for every potential out there and CYA themselves via specifications and 'fine print', which has too many not understand what that all means. Ditto 'recommend' that is in all aspects of any manual.

Good that you can and will test your setup out in an open gravel area and what FUN that will be. Not many are willing, nor able to do that. ON that, also know that things happen sooner/quicker/etc at higher speeds.

Since lifted and higher CG, hope your track was also increased significantly with aftermarket wheel offset. That lessens the tip over point or angle. Hope your lift system has double shocks and increased torsional rate anti-lean bars. Higher durometer anti-lean bars as noted by BackOfThePack is also a good idea if you haven't already (Delrin would be my choice and suggest staying away from nylon types).

Some lift kits has blocks that are angled to point the diff U-Joint upwards. Bad and will wear out that U-Joint quickly. Both output shaft and diff pinion shaft center lines MUST be parallel no matter what changes to the Z height the lift introduces. Stick with square blocks.

Fun stuff and enjoy your setup !
-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...

ApexAZ
Explorer
Explorer
Grit dog wrote:
@ApexAZ.
Yeah, just enjoy your camper. I'm sure it tows as well as you claim.
Now lets see a pic of that heavy hauler all hooked up!


The rig is currently parked, but we plan to take it out the weekend of 11/6 to practice backing it up and parking it. We found a nice big open gravel lot not too far from home where I can set up some cones. I also need to take it back to the scales with the toy loaded to get another weigh in and tongue weight measurement. I'll snap a pic then. Stay tuned!

Grit_dog
Navigator
Navigator
@ApexAZ.
Yeah, just enjoy your camper. I'm sure it tows as well as you claim.

Now lets see a pic of that heavy hauler all hooked up!
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5โ€ turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

ApexAZ
Explorer
Explorer
Thanks for the long, thoughtful post! I consider myself to be a pretty good and safe driver. I have not been in an accident since I was a teenager back in the 90's. It wasn't until I started riding a motorcycle in my early 20's that I really learned how to drive defensively, but it carried over to my regular driving as well. To the point that even when driving my truck, I get annoyed when people pace me in my blind spot when they have plenty of space forward or aft , not to mention the fact they are clogging up the fast lane. So while I'm not very experienced with pulling such a heavy load, my defensive driving is way ahead of most others on the road. The fact that I even came here seeking advice should tell you, and others, that safety is a top concern of mine.

I can't revert my truck lift and trying to buy a new truck proved difficult given the current supply chain issues. On the other hand, I live in Arizona and like my 4 wheel drive with kiddie tires and lifted it accordingly. I also knew that I wanted to tow a travel trailer, so I didn't want to go to extreme height either. I can't afford both a truck and a dedicated 4x4 vehicle. Nonetheless, I have towed the trailer and it feels pretty solid (not that I have much of a baseline to compare to). Even in wind I haven't experienced any sway and steering/control don't really feel all that different to me. Big RV's and trucks passing me in either direction on a 2 lane highway have no effect whatsoever. I don't even feel it. I will say the braking distance is a bit longer so I have to start braking earlier than I normally would. Also, the truck is a lot stiffer under the load and we can really feel the bumps a lot more. I assume this is to be expected.

I'm not sure what booster shots or face diapers have to do with anything, other than maybe it relates to risk management and public safety in general, similar to driving? It seems off topic overall, though.

Thanks again for your thoughtful reply!

BackOfThePack
Explorer
Explorer
How to get better?

Take Cat ticket with solo vehicle family and gear aboard for extended trip. REPLICATE THIS for all regular driving (sand bags, etc) 13-week minimum. No tire or brake wear. Mpg just about as good as when empty.

Drive like an adult (youโ€™ll be the only one). Back off. Cruise 2-3/mph UNDER flow. Never stop. And never idle. GLIDE!!

Be dead smooth in all you do. Drive always as if youโ€™re hitched. (Safety & fuel economy track almost exactly as itโ€™s about BRAKING).

Bar the 17-year old in you from ever again having the keys.

WHAT IS YOUR TOTAL COMBINED-RIG STOPPING DISTANCE FROM 60-MPH? Youโ€™ve tested that, right?

Maintain that space. Manage others around you fastest. See farthest ahead & adapt earliest. Etc.

Iโ€™ll make it simple: Be the only American on the road that day.

Cooperation was how we won wars, and it showed itself on the big road (danger) until a generation ago. Paperwork doesnโ€™t make for a citizen.

I run 5-600/miles per day all across the USA, and โ€” by simply maintaining space โ€” end nearly every other trouble. Takes time (years) to understand a big truck. Do your part with that heavy solo vehicle running around town. Body-memory, is closest analogy. Tires & brakes should both last over 100k. If they donโ€™t = remedial training necessary.

That you donโ€™t know anyone who drives normally like this means little. I know many who do. The ones who never drove commercially arenโ€™t left out. A very few car-only drivers have been the best Iโ€™ve seen.

No surprises. As there are no โ€œaccidentsโ€. Just your failure. (โ€œFaultโ€ irrelevant, as you could have done something differently. But chose not to learn & practice).

Lose the lift and the kiddie tires. Or put your face diaper back on and go get the next booster death-jab. Serious accidents (fatalities) are up by 12% in 2021 since 2018 (last normal year) EVEN WITH fewer miles run.

The numbers tell a story for those listening.

A good day on the road has a plan well-executed. Within those plans are details that have to be practiced. KNOWN parameters. BEST condition of gear (vehicles plus THE HITCH RIGGING as itโ€™s equally-weighted in value to the vehicles). Alert, aware, and relaxed. All stops chosen before leaving. Adequate maps & radio. Avoidance of packs, maintains maximum space.

Iโ€™ve seen more RV accidents than I could count. Most didnโ€™t involve other vehicles. Iโ€™ve predicted plenty based on their passing me. I know what RV insulation looks like floating in the air. The smell when on fire. Been the only one there for far too long with dead parents and a surviving child.

Our hands are already full with the rig, alone.
Same as with a big truck.
Our abilities are tested. Excuses wonโ€™t cut it.

Donโ€™t reach for more than you can ably grasp.
Around you are those with lesser ability and growing frenzy.

Be in the world, but not of it.

.
2004 555 CTD QC LB NV-5600
1990 35โ€™ Silver Streak

BackOfThePack
Explorer
Explorer
Another test is MPG.

(Fuel burn isnโ€™t just $, itโ€™s an indicator of mechanical & tire problems. A window. 10% increase means SOMETHING IS WRONG. You MUST have a NUMERICAL baseline for diagnosis).

Versus the solo TV (same load & passenger weight as for extended camping trip), the towing penalty is 40% in steady-state. 1971 or 2021 makes no difference at all. Itโ€™s an aero problem.

Anything higher, itโ€™s work-time to identify and fix the problem or problems. In both vehicles itโ€™s usually alignment or brake drag, first (after conformation of TV steer axle weight being same solo or hitched).

Take another weekend to test. Head out of town 45-60 miles to get warm-up completed (tires take longer) and use CAT SCALE to verify settings. Drop trailer. (Early in the day is less traffic).

Solo, drive a 200/mile loop (more gallons burned = more accurate) all on cruise control back to same highway filling station. As with initial stop, just fill tank to auto-shutoff.

Then the same loop while hitched. Do turn-around at the same empty crossover.

62-mph. Let traffic flow around you. (Lights on). Never use brakes, accelerate or change lanes.

Your teenage daughter can be the driver both times as WHO is driving isnโ€™t relevant. (Let the TV run the drivetrain, โ€œdriverโ€ only there to steer.)

A true aero TT will be under 40% change. A badly designed TT (interior layout plus slides) will be somewhat worse. 50% plus is unacceptable.

Exact numbers donโ€™t matter, that was baked-in at purchase (bought mine with this as a priority; 15-mpg average in a 62โ€™ combined rig). With both vehicles you now have the TRUE high mpg numbers,. (Last test would be TV solo. Scaled; driver only plus truly permanent gear aboard ONLY; same route & speed, etc),

The test was for the EXACT percentage change, solo to hitched. (And curb weight MPG test).

.
2004 555 CTD QC LB NV-5600
1990 35โ€™ Silver Streak

BackOfThePack
Explorer
Explorer
Steering control is what matters. Off-road tires and a lift kit degrade that. Towing makes demands that a solo vehicle doesnโ€™t encounter. Loss-of-control accidents are STEERING accidents. โ€œSkillโ€ is a laughable reply to the problem of making a bad vehicle (pickup) worse.

Those LOC accidents are primarily due to adverse winds. Natural or man-made, or a combination. Lift kit & bad tire choice make this more likely. Canโ€™t feel the problem and the rig is sloppy by every measure. Dialing in too much correction, or of too long a duration (or a combination) is how things go totally wrong.

And a box-shape non-aero TT on leaf springs pretty well canโ€™t be made worse for โ€œstabilityโ€,

The โ€œimprovementโ€ to a pickup would be to LOWER it and add tires with better grip than what came stock. Wider aspect ratio. Lowered COG is where itโ€™s at. Independent suspension upgrade on trailer, same.

Thereโ€™s a huge problem with what goes wrong on the highway: it only takes ONCE.

RV accidents are a statistically small subset of road miles accident type. Folks might tow 5k miles of their 20k annual miles. Arenโ€™t running in bad weather, or preferably not after dark. All these tend to lower AWARENESS that TT towing increases the risk factor by 2X. And thatโ€™s with a good rig. Not the one described.

You want an off-road capable vehicle, it wonโ€™t be a pickup. Build one appropriate. Return the pickup to stock ride height and use standard or optional wide tread tires (no wider than rim) as per factory offerings. Better shocks. Rear Panhard Rod. Poly bushing replacements on anti-roll bars.

And anti-lock trailer disc brakes.

And, anyoneโ€™s pickup wasnโ€™t the right choice as tow vehicle unless the rear axle rating is close to being met. 50/50 pickup weight bias FF/RR when SOLO (family & camping gear aboard). Distribution of tongue weight works best, then. Steering control is maximized (given built-in deficiencies).

Use THREE PASS SCALE METHOD (search). Tires to EXACT loading (pressure). TT MUST be dead-level after being hitched (carpenter level across doorway).

Combined rig WILL stop faster 35-0/mph when hitched properly than the solo truck. It wonโ€™t pass that test, join the 95% who never get it right.

You also need to know โ€” IMO โ€” what is top speed for violent maneuvers. Most pickup/square box trailers canโ€™t deal with 35-mph. Will roll, just like a 5โ€™er.

Same for high winds. One has to slow. Immediately and effectively. The TT brakes are CRUCIAL in this.

CONTROL will come down to the TV rear tires NOT losing grip. Once that happens Mario Andretti couldnโ€™t counter it.

A VPP hitch โ€” Hensley or Pro-Pride โ€” canโ€™t be matched (not even close) by older, obsolete designs. But the mismatch between tongue height and lifted truck hitch receiver makes a pickup even worse than it is already. The tail WILL wag the dog (how it seems; the TV is source of the accident).

Do the correct set-up. Perform the tests. Compared to most around here with pickups I run a diesel Corvette to pull my 35โ€™. Can ENDLESSLY do violent shoulder-to-median & back maneuvers โ€” throttle-on at 55-mph โ€” that WILL roll lesser rigs:

Step One is best vehicle design for each

Step Two is best rig conformation.

Step Three is test confirmation.

Grab a son or a friend to help over a few weekends to knock brains together. Itโ€™s not complicated, itโ€™s time-consuming the first run-through. The stoopids will try to use tire pressures too high to dial in a bad set-up AND THIS ONLY MAKES IT ALL WORSE.

A travel trailer rig (any) is the least-stable โ€œvehicleโ€ on the Interstate (which were built for tractor-trailers and thus deceive solo vehicle operators of whatโ€™s safe and isnโ€™t), it takes TLC to get things right.

Iโ€™ve been at this more than fifty years now (3rd generation) and run a Kenworth in my daily job. You want to run the big roads for long trips, TAKE PLEASURE in the problem-solving that comes beforehand.

If you donโ€™t KNOW how to get that state of mind, find someone who does. (Tools).

Todayโ€™s traffic โ€” far from cities โ€” is unbelievably bad today. Cars jamming left lane (always illegal), terrible following distances and true reckless behavior we almost NEVER saw just thirty years ago. But weโ€™ve had an invasion by millions who will never understand their role in screwing things up for everyone else. Permanent 12-yr olds, (And those that used to know better doing the same. No father, not after divorce, so always little boys. Little girls. Not adults. Not cooperative, only selfish).

So . . . it really WONโ€™T matter as to whoโ€™s at fault should there be an accident. Get that thru your head. CUT RISK DOWN. Rollovers = fatalities.

Lifted, with WRONG highway tires โ€” past all other factors โ€” makes risk HIGHER.


A travel trailer is a great thing. Canโ€™t recommend them highly enough. But get the rig BEST.


.
2004 555 CTD QC LB NV-5600
1990 35โ€™ Silver Streak