RV Parks You Love Then You Hate Them You Need Them

[fulltimedaniel]

Since I did a lighthearted look at RV'ers and their groupings I thought I should be even handed and do the same for RV Parks.

After more than two years on the road and by my count about 138 RV parks stayed in in almost every state west of a line drawn north and south on about the line of the Mississippi and a few hundred miles east of that from North Dakota to Fla to Texas the Baja and all the way to Alaska I think I can claim to have experienced about every type of RV Park that exists. And their owners.

There are several "degrees" of RV Parks from the ultra expensive, gated and patrolled that cater "exclusively" to Class A's to the humble smaller, simple places with gravel drives, no pool and (thank god) no Pickle Ball courts where riding in your $10 thousand dollar Golf Cart would elicit laughter and pointing.

The owners and staffs too are a very mixed bag from huge corporations with professional management and layers of bureaucracy to the Mom and Pop who got into the business "to retire".

It strikes me as I have traveled around and stayed in so many that a great many RV Parks, not all mind you, are owned and operated by people who have had no real experience in business and frankly do not belong in the hospitality business at all as they clearly do not like dealing with people and do it rather badly.

These folks I like to surmise decided "Wouldn't it be great to Own and RV Park!" "Build it kick back and let the money roll in...." mmm right.

These folks then come up hard against the fact that it can be a lot of work. And they have to deal with ALL THESE DEMANDING CUSTOMERS! Even though those same customers pay their Bills, and the mortgage they truly do not like us and dont really want to deal with us.

I wonder given some of what I see if they really understand ROI or what is truly profit vs Cash flow. It leaves me scratching my head sometimes how they manage.

Having said that I have seen many businesses survive and frankly do well (not nearly as good as they might however) in spite of their dubious Owner/Management rather than because of them.

There are many owners who do like to meet and deal with customers and who take their customers wants and needs seriously and do a great job of making their parks welcoming and neat and a pleasant place to stay. These can be either smaller places humble and simple or can be more modern and complicated. These are often run by middle aged folks who have some business experience an understand how to deal with people and customers. They have struck a great balance between "Rules" and freedom. They appreciate their customers and show it.

The Harvard Business Review has quite a few great articles on how businesses fail (and succeed) including well known ones like Best Buy, Martha Stewart Living, Dell etc. Most of the fault lies with the FOUNDERS and their inability to change with the times and the market.

I see this phenomenon in RV Parks all the time. Many are slow to catch on to new trends,technology and customer needs. As a group RV parks are some of THE MOST TECHNOLOGICALLY BACKWARD companies on the planet...yea the planet. I cannot tell you how many owners I run into that cant even troubleshoot their WIFI systems. Much less understand that in today's world WIFI is like running water it's an necessary infrastructure.

Now please save me the arguments about how the margins are low and there is no money to be made and do I know how much it costs? Actually yes I do. I don't think owning an RV Park is a fast way to riches for sure. But the numbers are there. It pencils out. You can make a decent ROI and a nice living.

The big corporate parks are another game altogether. Some are no better at customer relations than some of the Mom and Pop ones...mostly due to bad staff training than anything else.Usually everything works and all is neat and well trimmed, driveways are concrete or asphalt and there are 8 pages of rules.

Occasionally I stay at one of these and have nice stay. But like going into Target it's essentially impersonal. And it doesnt have to be that way. These parks also tend to have hundreds of spaces, and often some pretty touchy year-rounders who think they run the place.

These kinds of parks are big on "Activities". A sea of Blue hair line dancing is not my idea of fun. Especially when you throw in the fact it's TEQUILA NIGHT! Oh dear. Dont go near the Jacuzzi.

My favorite kind of park is smaller, more manageable, with kind management that truly understands customer service and is friendly but not intrusive. A place where most of the folks around you are neighborly but respectful. What happens inside a park and the atmosphere is set by the management. It can be cold an impersonal or warm and friendly, easy going (with limits) or chaotic and noisy. Good management knows how to get this right.

I dont really care if the streets are paved or gravel or the site completely level I want everything to work, be maintained and get what I pay for. All too often this is getting harder too find.

Now please, those of you that will jump in and say something like "well if you hate RV'ing so much why not just stay home?" just hold that thought to yourself.

I don't hate it. I rather like it. But like everything else it has it's positives and negatives. These are observations from my experiences. They are real and they all exist. It is a reality of this life I have chosen.

If everything were perfect life would be dull for sure.

[Drew_A_]

Bipeflier wrote:
I found the OP interesting. Several points that I haven't considered but nothing to get so up in arms about, just a discussion.

I also found the replies interesting as well as troubling, unnecessary, and outright disrespectful at times.

Too many "thin skinned" folks on this board. You need to learn to discuss issues in a civilized manner. I wonder how many of you would be so "mouthy" if you were face to face? I suspect some of you would deserve an a$$ kicking!

I've followed this whole thread. This is the best post yet!

[Bipeflier]

I found the OP interesting. Several points that I haven't considered but nothing to get so up in arms about, just a discussion.

I also found the replies interesting as well as troubling, unnecessary, and outright disrespectful at times.

Too many "thin skinned" folks on this board. You need to learn to discuss issues in a civilized manner. I wonder how many of you would be so "mouthy" if you were face to face? I suspect some of you would deserve an a$$ kicking!

[fulltimedaniel]

2012Coleman wrote:

fulltimedaniel wrote:

2012Coleman wrote:
I gotta wonder what someone who professes to be so smart can't understand why his OP would pi$$ off someone like westernrvparkowner. He even admits to pressing his point via PM! :H Stuff like that gets you banned - ask Darsben - I mean Darsben1....

What I have to wonder is why you didnt understand that I fully expected RVPO to react the way he did. He has shown time and again a propensity for this kind of response to any sort of criticism of his industry.

The fact that he did is no surprise to anyone. What one HOPES is that he will see that there is another side to the story and stops the automatic defensive posture and engage on a different level.

I assume he is a good guy, smart and effective at his business. that is leagues more than he gives me.

Here is something no one has to wonder about - your OP expresses your opinion on the RV park service industry from your limited slice of parks you claim to have visited. In it, and throughout this thread, you make defaming and derogatory comments about the people that run them and the people that use them. My grandparents still camp and rather enjoy Bingo and shuffleboard. They have a huge rig and lots of money to spend. But somehow, these "Bluehairs" ruin your experience. Then you go off on a tangent about how great you are because you ran some hotel in the jungle. Seriously, you come off as a Blowhard.

Saying you fully expected WRVPO to react the way he did tells me that your just a Troll, who posts on here solely to get a rise out of forum members you like to spar with for fun. Stop pontificating and add something useful for a change.

Get over yourself - no one seems to be agreeing with your opinion. I suspect that is what is really bothering you - to the point of sending the guy PM's to further argue your opinions. :R

Where you choose to see deflection others will see clarification.

I expected WRVPO to react badly because of his previous posts on this site...not because I am a troll. (or because he is a bad guy, I don't think he is)

I brought up my hotel experience ONLY after WRVPO questioned my experience to have any informed opinion about business or running an RVPARK. Am I to just ignore my experience? Am I to not explain to the readers how I got to the observations and conclusions I wrote about?

Lastly I didnt defame or demean anyone. Least of all WRVPO. I wrote about GROUPS of people that we all know exist out there. If I committed any sin of language it would be that I drew some broad generalizations about those groups to make a point. But the points remain valid.

You and some others may not agree with my post or the way I worded it but does that give you or anyone else the right to violate the rules here and use name calling and personalize your responses? I think not.

But I find that those that reduce themselves to that level often are wielding hollow arguments to whatever I wrote.

[2012Coleman]

fulltimedaniel wrote:

2012Coleman wrote:
I gotta wonder what someone who professes to be so smart can't understand why his OP would pi$$ off someone like westernrvparkowner. He even admits to pressing his point via PM! :H Stuff like that gets you banned - ask Darsben - I mean Darsben1....

What I have to wonder is why you didnt understand that I fully expected RVPO to react the way he did. He has shown time and again a propensity for this kind of response to any sort of criticism of his industry.

The fact that he did is no surprise to anyone. What one HOPES is that he will see that there is another side to the story and stops the automatic defensive posture and engage on a different level.

I assume he is a good guy, smart and effective at his business. that is leagues more than he gives me.

Here is something no one has to wonder about - your OP expresses your opinion on the RV park service industry from your limited slice of parks you claim to have visited. In it, and throughout this thread, you make defaming and derogatory comments about the people that run them and the people that use them. My grandparents still camp and rather enjoy Bingo and shuffleboard. They have a huge rig and lots of money to spend. But somehow, these "Bluehairs" ruin your experience. Then you go off on a tangent about how great you are because you ran some hotel in the jungle. Seriously, you come off as a Blowhard.

Saying you fully expected WRVPO to react the way he did tells me that your just a Troll, who posts on here solely to get a rise out of forum members you like to spar with for fun. Stop pontificating and add something useful for a change.

Get over yourself - no one seems to be agreeing with your opinion. I suspect that is what is really bothering you - to the point of sending the guy PM's to further argue your opinions. :R

[toedtoes]

Walaby wrote:
Oh, you have really mastered the art of deflection. Nothing you say is wrong, and no one can pin you down on anything. You have a whole post that is, virtually the definition of bashing, yet because you personally claim to have observed these issues with a 'great many' that it is observations only, and therefore does not rise to the level of bashing? Really?

There are a great many people who are 'observing' your behavior in this thread, and others, yet, those individuals are 'bashing' you, and 'stalking you', yet you do not see the irony and the hypocrisy in this?

I believe a little self reflection would do wonders.

Mike

I think he's quite proven himself to be a true businessman...

[Walaby]

Oh, you have really mastered the art of deflection. Nothing you say is wrong, and no one can pin you down on anything. You have a whole post that is, virtually the definition of bashing, yet because you personally claim to have observed these issues with a 'great many' that it is observations only, and therefore does not rise to the level of bashing? Really?

There are a great many people who are 'observing' your behavior in this thread, and others, yet, those individuals are 'bashing' you, and 'stalking you', yet you do not see the irony and the hypocrisy in this?

I believe a little self reflection would do wonders.

Mike

[fulltimedaniel]

2012Coleman wrote:
I gotta wonder what someone who professes to be so smart can't understand why his OP would pi$$ off someone like westernrvparkowner. He even admits to pressing his point via PM! :H Stuff like that gets you banned - ask Darsben - I mean Darsben1....

What I have to wonder is why you didnt understand that I fully expected RVPO to react the way he did. He has shown time and again a propensity for this kind of response to any sort of criticism of his industry.

The fact that he did is no surprise to anyone. What one HOPES is that he will see that there is another side to the story and stops the automatic defensive posture and engage on a different level.

I assume he is a good guy, smart and effective at his business. that is leagues more than he gives me.

[Arcamper]

I have a couple of comments in this peeing contest about RV parks. Out of the probably 30 I have stayed at I bet 20 did not keep tree limbs trimmed back to avoid contact with larger vehicles on the roads inside the park or some campsites. I believe this is because most owners never drive or tow a large vehicle around in their own campground. I have ask a few times about this and the answer was always the same "We want to preserve the natural look of the campground" and I always reply "I want to keep the natural untorn look of my rubber roof". I think it really comes down to the people running the place and the pride they take in their facility and service. This has nothing to do with it being a mom and pop place or corporate owned. I will use KOA as an example, I have stayed at one I liked and one I did not. Although under the same corporate umbrella the people where night and day different and so was how we were greeted, park cleanliness, trees trimmed, signs in the office computer printed and laminated not hand written, information about the park and surrounding area given in a packet at check in by one and nothing at the other. All things people that care and take ownership would do. I did not really think about what their business model was but I know the one that will and will not get my business in the future.

[fulltimedaniel]

westernrvparkowner wrote:

fulltimedaniel wrote:
Why don't you Quote the phrases I used to "Bash" all these poor RV Park Owners you are so concerned about?

Clarification not deflection. But anything can be spun to the negative.

There was no bashing of anyone.

It is the interpretation and comprehension that is the real issue IMO.

From your original post:

"It strikes me as I have traveled around and stayed in so many that a great many RV Parks, not all mind you, are owned and operated by people who have had no real experience in business and frankly do not belong in the hospitality business at all as they clearly do not like dealing with people and do it rather badly.

These folks I like to surmise decided "Wouldn't it be great to Own and RV Park!" "Build it kick back and let the money roll in...." mmm right.

These folks then come up hard against the fact that it can be a lot of work. And they have to deal with ALL THESE DEMANDING CUSTOMERS! Even though those same customers pay their Bills, and the mortgage they truly do not like us and dont really want to deal with us.

I wonder given some of what I see if they really understand ROI or what is truly profit vs Cash flow. It leaves me scratching my head sometimes how they manage.

Having said that I have seen many businesses survive and frankly do well (not nearly as good as they might however) in spite of their dubious Owner/Management rather than because of them. "

"I see this phenomenon in RV Parks all the time. Many are slow to catch on to new trends,technology and customer needs. As a group RV parks are some of THE MOST TECHNOLOGICALLY BACKWARD companies on the planet...yea the planet. I cannot tell you how many owners I run into that cant even troubleshoot their WIFI systems. Much less understand that in today's world WIFI is like running water it's an necessary infrastructure"

"The big corporate parks are another game altogether. Some are no better at customer relations than some of the Mom and Pop ones"

These bashes are all in your first post, you bash away in most of your other posts as well. You can try and hide from the truth, try to shift attention from the facts, but you continue to get caught in your own web of lies.

I can see why you as an RVPark owner might have read what I wrote that way. I don't consider my remarks as BASHING anyone. It is real. It is what I have observed. Am I to ignore reality and never speak of it?

Are sone of my remarks critical? Yes in places. But is there reason to be critical? I think a fair look at the RV Park Business as a whole indicates that there are plenty of owners like I describe out there.

But you must know as well as I that there are lots of what are called "Hobby" businesses out there...not just RV Parks.

What I was trying to convey was that sometimes when someone gets into a business they find later they are unsuitable for running that type of business. It could be in the planning stages they focused on the technical aspects of rv park ownership and the returns not the fact that they were going to have to deal with a constant stream of customers, some demanding, some angry some happy to come and go and not pay.

Many people I have met in the Service industries are just not cut out to deal with the public. That doesnt mean they are bad people or stupid by any means. They may have just not realized that so much of their time and energy was going to be spent in doing something many of them I have encountered just clearly don't like to do.

The ones you do meet that truly like to deal with the public stand out immediately and are graced with a set of skills that not all of us have.

What I was getting at in my post is that I do see rather a lot of the above type in the RV park Business. It is a tough job dealing with the public on a constant basis and in a consistent and pleasant way that makes your business more friends than enemies. And I think that RV Parks are uniquely skewed, in ownership terms, toward the "Hobby" Businessperson. ie. Someone with no prior business ownership background who just wants what I suspect some of them think of as a self-operating concern.

Now please dont try to make what I am saying here to mean that I think the majority or all RV Parks are this way. That is NOT what I am saying here. Only that this business is perhaps MORE prone to those kinds of owners than lets say...Vets or Auto Parts stores.

And again you take take issue with my wording constantly but wouldn;t it be better to discuss the IDEAS behind the words instead?

You seem to take these kinds of posts VERY personally though none of it was directed at you either directly or indirectly. Stop taking me personally. None of my posts are meant that way.

But to ignore the problems within your own industry is to bury your head in the sand. If you criticized Lets say how engineers design and develop products...well as an engineer who has been closely related to that at several times over several contracts I could agree with you on many points and would not take your criticisms personally. I see and know the problems of the industries I have associated myself with and I am more than happy to discuss them.

You, as what I assume is a professional running his business in a profitable way giving people good value for their money and treating your customers well MUST surely realize that what the amateurs in your business are doing hurts you as well.

[colliehauler]

TwinTurbo wrote:
I'm just here for the verbose diatribes, smugness and condescension. Carry on!

About spit out my coffee, sadly so true.

I do agree with Old Biscuit that a campground is just a place to facilitate access to the area, not a destination.

[1968mooney]

2012Coleman wrote:
I gotta wonder what someone who professes to be so smart can't understand why his OP would pi$$ off someone like westernrvparkowner. He even admits to pressing his point via PM! :H Stuff like that gets you banned - ask Darsben - I mean Darsben1....

You are not telling FTD anything he does not already know. I suspect he has been "banned" many times under different names. His posts reflect others that have come and gone suddenly.

[2012Coleman]

I gotta wonder what someone who professes to be so smart can't understand why his OP would pi$$ off someone like westernrvparkowner. He even admits to pressing his point via PM! :H Stuff like that gets you banned - ask Darsben - I mean Darsben1....

[westernrvparkow]

fulltimedaniel wrote:
Why don't you Quote the phrases I used to "Bash" all these poor RV Park Owners you are so concerned about?

Clarification not deflection. But anything can be spun to the negative.

There was no bashing of anyone.

It is the interpretation and comprehension that is the real issue IMO.

From your original post:

"It strikes me as I have traveled around and stayed in so many that a great many RV Parks, not all mind you, are owned and operated by people who have had no real experience in business and frankly do not belong in the hospitality business at all as they clearly do not like dealing with people and do it rather badly.

These folks I like to surmise decided "Wouldn't it be great to Own and RV Park!" "Build it kick back and let the money roll in...." mmm right.

These folks then come up hard against the fact that it can be a lot of work. And they have to deal with ALL THESE DEMANDING CUSTOMERS! Even though those same customers pay their Bills, and the mortgage they truly do not like us and dont really want to deal with us.

I wonder given some of what I see if they really understand ROI or what is truly profit vs Cash flow. It leaves me scratching my head sometimes how they manage.

Having said that I have seen many businesses survive and frankly do well (not nearly as good as they might however) in spite of their dubious Owner/Management rather than because of them. "

"I see this phenomenon in RV Parks all the time. Many are slow to catch on to new trends,technology and customer needs. As a group RV parks are some of THE MOST TECHNOLOGICALLY BACKWARD companies on the planet...yea the planet. I cannot tell you how many owners I run into that cant even troubleshoot their WIFI systems. Much less understand that in today's world WIFI is like running water it's an necessary infrastructure"

"The big corporate parks are another game altogether. Some are no better at customer relations than some of the Mom and Pop ones"

These bashes are all in your first post, you bash away in most of your other posts as well. You can try and hide from the truth, try to shift attention from the facts, but you continue to get caught in your own web of lies.

[RandACampin]

fulltimedaniel wrote:
Why don't you Quote the phrases I used to "Bash" all these poor RV Park Owners you are so concerned about?

Clarification not deflection. But anything can be spun to the negative.

There was no bashing of anyone.

It is the interpretation and comprehension that is the real issue IMO.

True, but it is your lack of comprehension that is at issue here.

[fulltimedaniel]

Why don't you Quote the phrases I used to "Bash" all these poor RV Park Owners you are so concerned about?

Clarification not deflection. But anything can be spun to the negative.

There was no bashing of anyone.

It is the interpretation and comprehension that is the real issue IMO.