Tail Wagging the Dog Issue

[RobWNY]

On a recent trip, I had one fairly serious tail Wagging the Dog incident. After exiting one Interstate onto another and after going around a large curve to the merging area, I encountered a lot of traffic. The window for me to enter the Interstate was small and I had to get on it to avoid impeding traffic. Once I was in the normal driving lane, the Tail Waging the Dog issue happened. I was going about 60MPH at the time. I applied the trailer brakes moderately as well as took my foot off the gas and it straightened out. I didn't have any further issues on my trip but that one incident was enough to scare the******out of me. I have a 27' Heartland Trail Runner (30ft total length) that when loaded is about 7,500 pounds. I'm towing it with a 2012 F150 with regular tow package and Ecoboost. I had the proper tongue weight and the WD setup was where it was supposed to be. I have a Husky WD Hitch with two sway bars. Now before anyone scolds me for having that heavy of a trailer and a 1/2 ton pickup to tow it, I already know I don't have the right setup. I am planning on doing two things. Upgrading my Tow vehicle and getting a much better hitch. Since I can't afford to do both at the same time, if you were me, which would you do first? Buy a new truck or get the new Hitch?

[CampingN_C_]

Did no one notice he's running P-rated tires ?? That's problem number one right there.

[BenK]

Final pass in trying to help this OP...

Repeat that most of these are the dials/knobs/levers/etc of adjustment
to get to:

proper WD'ing of weight to the TV's front (per the manual),
trailer tongue level at it's highest to slightly pointing down and
tongue weight in the 12%-15% of ACTUAL TRAILER WEIGHT

So the OP is heck bent on dialing it in without the above vision.

So, the shank has or should have several sets of holes. Try using some
of those holes to attain the above

The head on most can be tilted. Some with washers, some with serrated
side washers, etc. Try tilting the head 'BACK' some more. That adjustment
is to have the WD spring bars re-oriented to gain purchase with the
'chains'

The chains will have comments of the number of links...so set them
in all available links showing to see how that get to the above goal

There are many WD spring bar ratings. Try some higher spring ratings
so that you won't have to tilt or play with the chain links

You can even purchase taller balls. That is kinda sorta like head tilt
but know that it will have a lower rating on the ball...those do have
high ratings will cost more

Oh, back on the shank...you might consider flipping it, as some have
to do that to get the right amount of drop or lift of the ball height
to get to the above goal of level to pointing slightly down

Are there any more dials/knobs/levers/etc that I've missed that the
OP can adjust to get to the above goal...without actually weighing
and checking if the TV front axle has what the manual says WD'd and
using a level to check the tongue ON LEVEL ground... :S

Oh yes, the OP could go to the two projected axis WD Heads, but they
cost much more and the biggie...he is already at or over the limits
and that these hitch systems weigh much more than what he has...

[Lynnmor]

RobWNY wrote:
93Cobra2771, I crank down the sway bars as hard as I can with my hands and then for leverage, I use a tube bar to fit over the handles and crank them down another quarter turn. I don't know if they need to be cranked down THAT hard but in my mind, the harder it is for them to move, the less the trailer will move. On the other hand, if the trailer does sway, then the harder it will be for it to come back the other direction too. I have read that some people lube them for the noise while others claim to just barely hand tighten them and that just doesn't seem right to me. Maybe I'm wrong but there doesn't seem to be any definitive answer on how to do it. I have noticed however that by cranking them down as hard as I do, after turning a corner, I have to overturn slightly to make sure I have things straight again. This can't be right either but I don't have any problems when doing this because I'm going maybe 10ph. I'm starting to think that a new hitch might be in my future. The top of the line are a lot of money but it seems that most of my problem will be relieved.

Making the handle extremely tight on a friction sway control does nothing. Just bottom out the handle bolt and make the actual adjustment with the bolt on the other side of the bar. I adjust that bolt by testing for sway when the steering wheel is given a small, quick turn and watching how the trailer responds.

[myredracer]

How did you set up the WDH? Did you adjust it based on front fender height or by going to a scale? Did you adjust the spring bars as per the WDH manufacturer and your TV manufacturer's spec? If it were me, I would revisit the setup and confirm it is all okay.

I would say 11% TW is on the light side but it's not that simple to raise it, unless you travel with a full holding tank that is forward of the axles. 11% is on the low side of typical. Ours is near 15% and we never have any sway issues. There are no problems if TW is over 15%, but being under 10% is a big problem for sway and handling and is potentially dangerous.

What rating are the spring bars? You should have 1,000 lb, if that's what Husky has, or the next available size.

Were the TV and TT tires set to the correct pressure?

What condition are the shocks like in the TV? I *think* a decent set of shocks (Bilstein HD, ex.) would help to make the TV more stable and controllable. We now have shocks on our TT and it makes the TV and TT a lot more stable because the tongue doesn't bounce up and down like it used to.

Did you add stuff in the bed of the truck aft of the rear axle and remove some weight off the steer axle? Combined with insufficient weight transferred to the steer axle by the WDH, this could make the front end too light.

I would go to a CAT scale and weigh everything using the three different passes that are needed. You can fine tune the WDH there based on actual weight transfer to the steer axle and TT axles.

Perhaps a photo of your WDH setup while connected to the TT might help?

Going to a Reese dual cam WDH may help as it is pro-active and has a self-centering action. Around $500 if you shop around. This WDH is really good but is a bit finicky to do the initial installation. You shouldn't have to pay thousands on a WDH to cure your sway issue - something else is wrong.

[dodge_guy]

Those metal scrap yard scales can notoriously inaccurate! You need to hit up a CAT scale. and as was mentioned by a few, 11% is on the extreme low end for a TT. you want to be a minimum of 12.5% and no more than 15% (I like 12-13%).

[93Cobra2771]

RobWNY wrote:
93Cobra2771, I crank down the sway bars as hard as I can with my hands and then for leverage, I use a tube bar to fit over the handles and crank them down another quarter turn. I don't know if they need to be cranked down THAT hard but in my mind, the harder it is for them to move, the less the trailer will move. On the other hand, if the trailer does sway, then the harder it will be for it to come back the other direction too. I have read that some people lube them for the noise while others claim to just barely hand tighten them and that just doesn't seem right to me. Maybe I'm wrong but there doesn't seem to be any definitive answer on how to do it. I have noticed however that by cranking them down as hard as I do, after turning a corner, I have to overturn slightly to make sure I have things straight again. This can't be right either but I don't have any problems when doing this because I'm going maybe 10ph. I'm starting to think that a new hitch might be in my future. The top of the line are a lot of money but it seems that most of my problem will be relieved.

You are right on the money, crank those puppies down tight. Remember - what they do is simply slow a sway event down, allowing you to regain control.

As others have suggested, some more tongue weight and tweaking your existing setup is probably in order.

[mikeb9550]

RobWNY wrote:
What about Hensley, ProPride and the other hitch manufacturers that guarantee to eliminate sway. I realize when I bought my camper I received the basic hitch setup which is obsolete and I know the ones I mentioned are pricey but many people swear by them. Does sway happen with those setups also from time to time or are they really as good as the hype and worth the money they want for them? I would hate to go spend a bunch of money on one of those hitches only to learn that sway happens with them too. I just want to travel down the highway without being nervous all the time and reduce or eliminate white knuckle experiences.

Yes they do what they advertise. I have towed with a regular friction sway control, Dual Cam, and a Hensley. Elite hitches like Hensley and Propride are in an entire different category. My old setup towed good but like you, I had a time or two where is shook me up a little. Seen people talking about the Hensley (propride wasn't around then) so I looked for a used one. Paid like 1200.00 for it. Sold it when I sold my last trailer for what I had in it. Towing was like night and day. Its so much more relaxing. When we sold our trailer we got what we paid for the hitch. We took a few years off of camping and decided to get another trailer. I actually looked for and bought another used Hensley before I even found my new trailer. Thats how good they handle. There are a couple downsides but worth it for me.

There are a lot of good safe hitches on the market for a reasonable amount of money. I am a 40 year old middle class guy and think its worth every penny I paid for it ( think it was 800 or 900 used this time). If you tow with one, it will make a believer out of you. I use to think my trailer towed good. I just didn't know how good it could tow with a really good hitch.

[lbrjet]

After 4 years and 12000 miles I am perfectly happy with my Equal-i-zer E4. You don't need to spend thousands to get a great hitch. If you feel you can afford a Hensley by all means buy one. I wanted to try the next level down from that first and saved a bunch of money in the process. I even ran my OEM China tires for 9000 miles before I replaced them a few months ago, contrary to the China tire bashing you read on this forum constantly. Do what you want to do because it the best decision for you, not because someone else says it.

[RobWNY]

93Cobra2771, I crank down the sway bars as hard as I can with my hands and then for leverage, I use a tube bar to fit over the handles and crank them down another quarter turn. I don't know if they need to be cranked down THAT hard but in my mind, the harder it is for them to move, the less the trailer will move. On the other hand, if the trailer does sway, then the harder it will be for it to come back the other direction too. I have read that some people lube them for the noise while others claim to just barely hand tighten them and that just doesn't seem right to me. Maybe I'm wrong but there doesn't seem to be any definitive answer on how to do it. I have noticed however that by cranking them down as hard as I do, after turning a corner, I have to overturn slightly to make sure I have things straight again. This can't be right either but I don't have any problems when doing this because I'm going maybe 10ph. I'm starting to think that a new hitch might be in my future. The top of the line are a lot of money but it seems that most of my problem will be relieved.

[BenK]

Welcome to the forum !

Okay, got that you understand that your TV is most likely at the limits
and/or over the limits (ratings) and will address what you have now

Most all of the advice on this and other threads are adjustments to the
goal, which is to have enough weight WD'd back from the TV's rear axle
to the TV's front axle. This will require the WD spring bars sized correctly
to the trailers *ACTUAL* tongue weight

In the old days, that goal was to have the TV drop evenly, front and
rear. But with today's wacky suspensions (GM's notorious double spring
system...one being the bump stops actually touching at static or null)
Follow your manuals recommendations on HOW2 setup a WD system. Most now
say bring the front axle weight to what is was before hooking up. Again,
follow your manuals recommendations

Keeping the Trailer tongue level at it's highest pointing to slightly
down (my preference and recommendation). Tongue *ACTUAL* weight in
the 12%-15% range and suggest/preference towards the higher %, but
that is always an issue with the ratings of any TV (more half ton's,
therefore more half tons are reported in this regard)

That's pretty much it, other than stay within your ratings...

The "head tilt", "number of washers", "number of links", etc, etc all
are adjustments to attain the above

The three biggest is return enough weight to the TV's front axle,
the pointing down of the tongue and the 12%-15% tongue weight

Good luck !

[93Cobra2771]

In addition to above - no one has asked about your husky sway bars. How tight do you have them? The idea on them is that they need to be VERY tight, and NO lubrication. Even if they make noise, I never used lube on them? Why? Because they are essentially brake material, and any lube to stop squealing also affects friction.

So, do you have the handle on top cranked down good and tight on both of them?

[mkirsch]

What's MOST important in that situation is that you ***STAY OFF*** the tow vehicle's brakes.

Whether you step on the gas or simply let up and coast, is up to you.

You are not really slowing down if you simply let off the gas. You will coast at your current speed for a ways.

Unfortunately for all we know, your sway incident was unavoidable. Even if everything is "just right" there are conditions and situations that will cause sway.

You are on the high end of your truck's capacity, but if you are happy with how it performs aside from the one sway incident, I would not bother upgrading the truck. Get yourself an Equal-i-zer or one of the DualCam style WD hitches, toss the friction bars in the scrap pile, and go camping!

[Wishin]

11% tongue weight may just be a little too close to the low end and may have crept lower as stuff gets moved around in the trailer, you use up some propane, tank levels change, etc. I'd try increasing your tongue weight up to 13% and see if that works. If this is a rare occurrence, it will be hard to see the benefit right away, but I think it would be a good move.

As for whether you did the right thing, speeding up, or slowing down. I think you got it right. If it is caused by a light tongue weight, it will get worse as you speed up, so while it may help initially to accelerate because it is pulling the "spaghetti noodle" straight, you will end up at a faster speed which could then make the problem worse due to the resultant higher speed. Do as you did, gently slow down by letting off the gas and manually grab the trailer brakes.

LT tires would be a good upgrade as well. If you are within all weights per the scale, then you should be fine with the truck. Of course a 2500 would be nicer, but shouldn't be necessary.

Good luck.

[RobWNY]

No, pretty much empty. The Gray tank was completely empty and the Black tank I had put 3 gallons of water in for the sanitizing pack to dissolve into.

[Francesca_Knowl]

Interesting that when you traveled with the water tank full you didn't have the same problem, though lower speed might be the factor there. Still: One wonders what effect if any various tanks have on weight distribution. Was there anything in the waste tanks when you had the sway event?