Tail Wagging the Dog Issue

[RobWNY]

On a recent trip, I had one fairly serious tail Wagging the Dog incident. After exiting one Interstate onto another and after going around a large curve to the merging area, I encountered a lot of traffic. The window for me to enter the Interstate was small and I had to get on it to avoid impeding traffic. Once I was in the normal driving lane, the Tail Waging the Dog issue happened. I was going about 60MPH at the time. I applied the trailer brakes moderately as well as took my foot off the gas and it straightened out. I didn't have any further issues on my trip but that one incident was enough to scare the******out of me. I have a 27' Heartland Trail Runner (30ft total length) that when loaded is about 7,500 pounds. I'm towing it with a 2012 F150 with regular tow package and Ecoboost. I had the proper tongue weight and the WD setup was where it was supposed to be. I have a Husky WD Hitch with two sway bars. Now before anyone scolds me for having that heavy of a trailer and a 1/2 ton pickup to tow it, I already know I don't have the right setup. I am planning on doing two things. Upgrading my Tow vehicle and getting a much better hitch. Since I can't afford to do both at the same time, if you were me, which would you do first? Buy a new truck or get the new Hitch?

[goducks10]

the_happiestcamper wrote:
Had a similar situation last week. There was a cement mixer that was shaped almost like a box. He would go 70 downhill but only about 45 uphill. So I passed him going uphill since his combined actions were slowing me down from my consistent speed of 60. After the pass, on the second down hill, all of a sudden I got the severe tail wag, Turns out the jerk got inches from my trailer's bumper, causing it to get loose like NASCAR.

Couple turns on the track bar would fix that.:)

[Cummins12V98]

RobWNY wrote:
On a recent trip, I had one fairly serious tail Wagging the Dog incident. After exiting one Interstate onto another and after going around a large curve to the merging area, I encountered a lot of traffic. The window for me to enter the Interstate was small and I had to get on it to avoid impeding traffic. Once I was in the normal driving lane, the Tail Waging the Dog issue happened. I was going about 60MPH at the time. I applied the trailer brakes moderately as well as took my foot off the gas and it straightened out. I didn't have any further issues on my trip but that one incident was enough to scare the******out of me. I have a 27' Heartland Trail Runner (30ft total length) that when loaded is about 7,500 pounds. I'm towing it with a 2012 F150 with regular tow package and Ecoboost. I had the proper tongue weight and the WD setup was where it was supposed to be. I have a Husky WD Hitch with two sway bars. Now before anyone scolds me for having that heavy of a trailer and a 1/2 ton pickup to tow it, I already know I don't have the right setup. I am planning on doing two things. Upgrading my Tow vehicle and getting a much better hitch. Since I can't afford to do both at the same time, if you were me, which would you do first? Buy a new truck or get the new Hitch?

I would buy a 5er of your liking and the proper tow vehicle to pull it!

You were lucky nothing bad happened. Just for fun ask a friend to drive their truck pulling a 5er that will get your attention.

[the_happiestcam]

Had a similar situation last week. There was a cement mixer that was shaped almost like a box. He would go 70 downhill but only about 45 uphill. So I passed him going uphill since his combined actions were slowing me down from my consistent speed of 60. After the pass, on the second down hill, all of a sudden I got the severe tail wag, Turns out the jerk got inches from my trailer's bumper, causing it to get loose like NASCAR.

[93Cobra2771]

Lynnmor wrote:

RobWNY wrote:
93Cobra2771, I crank down the sway bars as hard as I can with my hands and then for leverage, I use a tube bar to fit over the handles and crank them down another quarter turn. I don't know if they need to be cranked down THAT hard but in my mind, the harder it is for them to move, the less the trailer will move. On the other hand, if the trailer does sway, then the harder it will be for it to come back the other direction too. I have read that some people lube them for the noise while others claim to just barely hand tighten them and that just doesn't seem right to me. Maybe I'm wrong but there doesn't seem to be any definitive answer on how to do it. I have noticed however that by cranking them down as hard as I do, after turning a corner, I have to overturn slightly to make sure I have things straight again. This can't be right either but I don't have any problems when doing this because I'm going maybe 10ph. I'm starting to think that a new hitch might be in my future. The top of the line are a lot of money but it seems that most of my problem will be relieved.

Making the handle extremely tight on a friction sway control does nothing. Just bottom out the handle bolt and make the actual adjustment with the bolt on the other side of the bar. I adjust that bolt by testing for sway when the steering wheel is given a small, quick turn and watching how the trailer responds.

The bar I had specifically said to leave the bottom bolt alone, and tighten with the handle. The tighter the handle, the more friction.

[mooky_stinks]

Remember towing capacity doesn't automatically mean travel trailer. There's plenty of other types of trailers that have totally different towing manners.

[keymastr]

I think it is criminal that manufacturers get away with listing tow limits so absurdly high. The fact that his 1/2 ton truck has a cargo capacity of 1500 pounds is ridiculous. Last time I checked 1500 pounds was 3/4 of a ton but now we are supposed to just ignore that and buy in to the myth that this vehicle can safely tow a 10,000 pound trailer.

Kudos to the OP,(who has left this discussion apparently), for realizing this unlike the many who start threads of "can my F150 haul this monster" and refuse to listen when the crowd overwhelmingly tells them "no".

[LarryJM]

Lynnmor wrote:

RobWNY wrote:
93Cobra2771, I crank down the sway bars as hard as I can with my hands and then for leverage, I use a tube bar to fit over the handles and crank them down another quarter turn. I don't know if they need to be cranked down THAT hard but in my mind, the harder it is for them to move, the less the trailer will move. On the other hand, if the trailer does sway, then the harder it will be for it to come back the other direction too. I have read that some people lube them for the noise while others claim to just barely hand tighten them and that just doesn't seem right to me. Maybe I'm wrong but there doesn't seem to be any definitive answer on how to do it. I have noticed however that by cranking them down as hard as I do, after turning a corner, I have to overturn slightly to make sure I have things straight again. This can't be right either but I don't have any problems when doing this because I'm going maybe 10ph. I'm starting to think that a new hitch might be in my future. The top of the line are a lot of money but it seems that most of my problem will be relieved.

Making the handle extremely tight on a friction sway control does nothing. Just bottom out the handle bolt and make the actual adjustment with the bolt on the other side of the bar. I adjust that bolt by testing for sway when the steering wheel is given a small, quick turn and watching how the trailer responds.

Your testing and adjustment of these friction bar type sway devices is right on the money and most don't realize the HAVE TO BE TESTED ON THE ROAD LIKE YOU DID and then adjusted to get acceptable sway control results. Just a 1/2 turn on that adjusting bolt can make the difference in a properly controlled trailer and a real squirrely one.

I'm also with others in feeling that the tongue wt. might be too low for the OPs particular tow configuration and should be increased to around 1000lbs or 12.5% and then tested. I know there is considerable difference for my tow setup for a tongue wt. from 800 and 950 lbs. I'm fortunate in that I can test this easily on the road since I keep one of the aux refer/freezers (NORCOLD MRFT-40) in the trailer and have to move it from the back bedroom where I like to keep it up to the very front when traveling or my handling suffers. That is approx 100 to 125 lbs wt. moved from the back to the front resulting in a 150lb TW change.

Larry

[BurbMan]

RobWNY wrote:
What about Hensley, ProPride and the other hitch manufacturers that guarantee to eliminate sway. I realize when I bought my camper I received the basic hitch setup which is obsolete and I know the ones I mentioned are pricey but many people swear by them. Does sway happen with those setups also from time to time or are they really as good as the hype and worth the money they want for them? I would hate to go spend a bunch of money on one of those hitches only to learn that sway happens with them too. I just want to travel down the highway without being nervous all the time and reduce or eliminate white knuckle experiences.

To answer your question, YES, they work as advertised and they are worth the money. BUT there are only two hitches that use the 4-bar linkage to truly eliminate sway: Hensley and ProPride. I nave seen other ads for hitches that "guarantee to eliminate sway", but anything else besides these two uses some sort of a friction system. Some are better than others, but the true towing stars are the Hensley and ProPride.

I agree that your tongue weight may be light at 11% and a new hitch will solve that, the 4-bar linkage is indifferent to tongue weight, ie., it doesn't rely on a heavy tongue to stop the TT from swaying.

Save your money on the LT tires, air bags and whatever else folks are telling you spend your $$ on. If you are within the ratings on the truck, even if you are at the max, the HA or PP will deliver a smooth sway-free towing experience. Then when you are ready to upgrade the truck, you won't have a lot of cash tied up in bolt-ons. Now if you are due for tires anyway, then I would say consider getting LT's, but I wouldn't run out and buy new tires to fix a sway issue.

I tow the TT in my sig at 70 mph all day long with one finger on the steering wheel. Wind, rain, uneven pavement, passing semis, nothing makes the TT unstable. I bought the HA in 2002 because of the relatively short wheelbase on the burb relative to the 34' trailer. The only thing I didn't like about the HA is the price, but you can find good deals on used ones if you look around.

[BurbMan]

Not sure why you would say this:

lantley wrote:
...and go to a real CAT scale and weigh everything. Otherwise it's all a guess.

When the OP wrote this:

RobWNY wrote:
The reason I know the weight of my camper when loaded is because I have a metal scrap yard near me and I use their scales to check the weight. They leave them on 24/7 so I spend quite a bit of time there after they're closed checking the weights of my truck, my truck and hitch system, the trailer and then the all hitched up combined weight before I head out of town.

A CAT scale isn't any better than a scrap scale, I think the OP has a handle on his weights.

[CampingN_C_]

Same reason I'm going down to 265's from 285's. And the 285's are D's.

[therink]

BenK wrote:
It's a whole system made up of components/sub-systems and most of the
advice deal with the components...not the whole system

Given that the OP admits to needing a higher weight class TV, but have
what you have...for now (congrats to the OP...most half ton owners
refuse to acknowledge that)

At or over the limits will NOT have the wheels instantly fall off, but
they will sooner and the biggie...ability to manhandle the setup

Engineers/designers do NOT design for the good days out there, but for
the worse day out there when Mr Murphy crosses your path. Either you
have the proper stuff or not. No time to go to the store for better/bigger
and/or resetup

Passenger class tires on full sized TV's is not a good thing when at
the limits. Even the higher class TV's with their higher class 'LT'
tires, but aired down for 'ride quality' will display this:

Go to any showroom and do this to bone stock 'P' and 'LT' shod TV's

Take your foot and shove the rear bumper sideways. Keep doing that to
find the natural harmonic and play on that

The softer tires (both 'P' and 'LT', but aired down) will continue to
yaw and have had them yaw so much the salesman thought it would hit
the window

That is what is being discussed now, but it is only one aspect of towing
well

This is, in part, why having a goal of proper TV & trailer attitude
is so important. More so at or over the limits. It's all about
that worse day out there and the ability of the TV to manhandle whatever
it is that you need to do

Back on tires...and the yaw that comes with them.

When the setup is swaying, it requires tires and suspension to have
the ability to manhandle. On that, there are two basic attributes:
slip angle and response, which are mainly the same thing

Slip angle is the angle the tires impart on the vehicle VS the dialed
in angle by the steering wheel.

Response is the time it takes the steering wheel change and the time
it takes the tires to impart that angle to the vehicle.

Great analogy.

[BenK]

It's a whole system made up of components/sub-systems and most of the
advice deal with the components...not the whole system

Given that the OP admits to needing a higher weight class TV, but have
what you have...for now (congrats to the OP...most half ton owners
refuse to acknowledge that)

At or over the limits will NOT have the wheels instantly fall off, but
they will sooner and the biggie...ability to manhandle the setup

Engineers/designers do NOT design for the good days out there, but for
the worse day out there when Mr Murphy crosses your path. Either you
have the proper stuff or not. No time to go to the store for better/bigger
and/or resetup

Passenger class tires on full sized TV's is not a good thing when at
the limits. Even the higher class TV's with their higher class 'LT'
tires, but aired down for 'ride quality' will display this:

Go to any showroom and do this to bone stock 'P' and 'LT' shod TV's

Take your foot and shove the rear bumper sideways. Keep doing that to
find the natural harmonic and play on that

The softer tires (both 'P' and 'LT', but aired down) will continue to
yaw and have had them yaw so much the salesman thought it would hit
the window

That is what is being discussed now, but it is only one aspect of towing
well

This is, in part, why having a goal of proper TV & trailer attitude
is so important. More so at or over the limits. It's all about
that worse day out there and the ability of the TV to manhandle whatever
it is that you need to do

Back on tires...and the yaw that comes with them.

When the setup is swaying, it requires tires and suspension to have
the ability to manhandle. On that, there are two basic attributes:
slip angle and response, which are mainly the same thing

Slip angle is the angle the tires impart on the vehicle VS the dialed
in angle by the steering wheel.

Response is the time it takes the steering wheel change and the time
it takes the tires to impart that angle to the vehicle.

[Lantley]

Without getting into all the numbers I would ditch the P rated tires. The P rated tires are not helping your marginally rated tow vehicle.
Your sway event could have been a disaster.
Consider yourself luck you do not get a klot of warning signs that your combo is poorly matched.
Replace your tires and go to a real CAT scale and weigh everything. Otherwise it's all a guess.

[goducks10]

My guess is it's a combination of two things. 7500lbs-31' and the small tires on the TT. Couple that with a 1/2 ton. The tires are maxed out being 205/75/15C. Total load rating is 7280lbs. If the TT is 7500 loaded and using 12% for TW that leaves 170lbs in reserve for each tire. That's assuming 12% TW. @10% there would only be 132lbs in reserve. That TT is squirming on the tires. Up grade the tires to either D or E rated and I bet it handles better.

OTOH 7500lbs and 31' is a load for an F150. I know I towed close to that. My Heartland 26LRSS was 7300lbs and 30'10" long. Even using a properly adjusted EQ 4pt sway WDH the TT still wandered. Pi$$ poor design by Heartland. I see they changed the frame design for 2014. Go figure.