Towing heavy with a gas MH

[kfp673]

Hello all,

We are in a dilemma. We would like to move from our travel trailer to a MH. We have had travel trailers for over 10 years and never had a MH. We would definitely need to tow a vehicle based on the way we travel. We like to move around the area we are visiting without tairing down camp.

With all of that said, we do not have a vehicle under 5k LBs. we have a 2015 Yukon and would love to bring that along. I guess we could get a smaller tow vehicle but bringing the Yukon ( or any full size truck/suv) would be much better for multiple reasons for us and would save us from buying another car that would only be used when we travel. The Yukon specs say 5700 lbs curb weight so I would assume 6500 lbs. is the limitation of most Gas class A and C MHs just the hitch? If we upgraded the hitch could we get away with towing more or is there an issue with the frame and engine strength. I understand it might take longer to get going but how bad would it be? A diesel is out of the question due to cost

Any thoughts or recommendations? Anyone tow more than 5k with a gas A or C? Thanks for any help you can provide.

[kfp673]

Ductape wrote:
That's assuming the 6.7 is an upgrade from the 6.8.

I can only speak for pickup trucks, but it's a huge difference. You are talking double the torque from 400 to 800 ft lbs. It would pull grades much smoother and would be able to handle a much larger towing capacity. Of course the Tranny would have to match but again, they do that in trucks every day. Gas motors have come a long way for sure and from what I read they get the job done for the most part, but my experience is you can't compare them to a modern diesel when it comes to torque and pulling power (exactly what a MH needs).

[Ductape]

That's assuming the 6.7 is an upgrade from the 6.8.

[kfp673]

SRockwood wrote:

rockhillmanor wrote:
You can read all the specs what a gas MH is 'rated' for until your eyes cross but when it comes time to head out RV'ing, vacation, etc if your towing a heavy toad the trip will most certainly not be fun for the driver.

I tow a Tracker under 3,000 lbs with a E450. On the straight away you can't even tell she's there. Start going up even the lowest grades and you know it's back there.

Most buy the lightest toad they can to pull behind a "gas" MH.
Unless you like hearing your trans screaming on the steep grades as you try to maintain the speed limit which you most likely will not as it floats out half way up.

A DP MH is the way to go with a heavier toad. Just saying.

The price difference between the DP and a class C is enough that one could replace the transmission 5 or 6 times and stay in a Hilton while repairs are being done and still come out on top. 🙂

Some people don't like revs. Others trust that Ford/GM/whoever knew what they were doing when they specified maximum engine RPM.

Not many people put enough miles on these things to see any difference in service life between towing a heavier towed or a lighter one. The curb weight delta between a "light" car (most "light" cars these days are still north of 3000lbs) and a full size SUV is still only 10-13% of the total weight going down the road.

Let it rev and watch your temps with real gauges. If you don't want to do that, then strictly adhere to the manufacturer's guidelines. They're for people who want to just hook things up and drive down the road without looking down.

Besides, I don't know about you, but all the other noise of driving a house down the road makes the engine somewhat pleasant to hear. 🙂

Thanks for the info everyone. The post above reminds me of a "pet peeve" of mine. When you buy a Pickup truck there is typically a $9-11k up charge for the same truck in diesel vs gas (2500, 3500, etc they are all available now in gas and diesel). There is no way the cost is actually that great but it is what it is... With that said, why have no RV manufacturers taken the exact same RV and dropped the Diesel in it? For example, take the F53 Ford and simply upgrade to the 6.7 Ford diesel. It would be a much better drive and I think plenty of people would select that option for $10-11k up charge like a truck. Makes no sense. You have to go to a freight liner chassis, etc etc to get a stronger pulling engine which is way overkill for me.Same with class C. You get an E450 chassis and the V10 or for some reason you can spend $50k more and get a "super C which is just an F450 chassis with the diesel. Where do these numbers come from?? I wonder if it is possible to special order a class A MH like this???

[SRockwood]

rockhillmanor wrote:
You can read all the specs what a gas MH is 'rated' for until your eyes cross but when it comes time to head out RV'ing, vacation, etc if your towing a heavy toad the trip will most certainly not be fun for the driver.

I tow a Tracker under 3,000 lbs with a E450. On the straight away you can't even tell she's there. Start going up even the lowest grades and you know it's back there.

Most buy the lightest toad they can to pull behind a "gas" MH.
Unless you like hearing your trans screaming on the steep grades as you try to maintain the speed limit which you most likely will not as it floats out half way up.

A DP MH is the way to go with a heavier toad. Just saying.

The price difference between the DP and a class C is enough that one could replace the transmission 5 or 6 times and stay in a Hilton while repairs are being done and still come out on top. 🙂

Some people don't like revs. Others trust that Ford/GM/whoever knew what they were doing when they specified maximum engine RPM.

Not many people put enough miles on these things to see any difference in service life between towing a heavier towed or a lighter one. The curb weight delta between a "light" car (most "light" cars these days are still north of 3000lbs) and a full size SUV is still only 10-13% of the total weight going down the road.

Let it rev and watch your temps with real gauges. If you don't want to do that, then strictly adhere to the manufacturer's guidelines. They're for people who want to just hook things up and drive down the road without looking down.

Besides, I don't know about you, but all the other noise of driving a house down the road makes the engine somewhat pleasant to hear. 🙂

[mowermech]

rockhillmanor wrote:
You can read all the specs what a gas MH is 'rated' for until your eyes cross but when it comes time to head out RV'ing, vacation, etc if your towing a heavy toad the trip will most certainly not be fun for the driver.

I tow a Tracker under 3,000 lbs with a E450. On the straight away you can't even tell she's there. Start going up even the lowest grades and you know it's back there.

Most buy the lightest toad they can to pull behind a "gas" MH.
Unless you like hearing your trans screaming on the steep grades as you try to maintain the speed limit which you most likely will not as it floats out half way up.

A DP MH is the way to go with a heavier toad. Just saying.

I do not agree, based on personal experience. That's all I will say about it.

[rockhillmanor]

You can read all the specs what a gas MH is 'rated' for until your eyes cross but when it comes time to head out RV'ing, vacation, etc if your towing a heavy toad the trip will most certainly not be fun for the driver.

I tow a Tracker under 3,000 lbs with a E450. On the straight away you can't even tell she's there. Start going up even the lowest grades and you know it's back there.

Most buy the lightest toad they can to pull behind a "gas" MH.
Unless you like hearing your trans screaming on the steep grades as you try to maintain the speed limit which you most likely will not as it floats out half way up.

A DP MH is the way to go with a heavier toad. Just saying.

[SRockwood]

ugh wrote:
A lot of people go over the weight limit. If you do that, I would recommend staying on top of replacing the transmission fluid on time. When I go over the limit, I change the transmission fluid as soon as I get home. Once the transmission overheats, it no longer can do the job effectively and that leads to damage transmission.

Even better: get a real gauge to monitor what your temps are. Most Fords have a diagnostic port just above the pan pre-tapped for 1/8" NPT senders, so it's super easy to hook up. If you're overheating, pull over and let it run at idle in neutral until it cools off (do not just turn it off as all fluid flow stops), change your fluid and upgrade your cooler when you get home. 220* is getting toasty, 230* is no bueno, and 240* is pull over or you're gonna break something.

Other than your tolerance for lower than normal speeds, I doubt there would be any lasting problems with your coach as long as you pay attention to fluid temperatures (with real gauges, not the factory "replace component when lit" gauges/lights). If you're uncomfortable with exceeding the factory guidelines, then pay attention to weights, etc. If not, then do your homework, upgrade parts as necessary, and plan a shorter trip under relatively controlled circumstances and see if it feels good to you. As always, be reasonable with what you do.

As for lawsuits, legality, etc, my take on it (warning: I am not an attorney and this is not legal advice):

1. Your insurance should cover you in an accident even if over weight, just like your insurance should cover you (and then cancel you/raise rates astronomically) if you get hammered, pass out, run 10 red lights and drive through a schoolyard at recess. I'm sure there may be civil liabilities in court, but these are always a concern when getting behind the wheel and why you should review your policy limits so you're reasonably protected. I doubt towing a 6000lb towed when you're rated for 5000lbs will matter in this case.

2. There is no legal bearing applicable to most RVs here on doorjam capacities except for the DOT weight ratings printed on the tire itself. There are licensing limits, registration limits, and per-axle limits, but those are generally more than most peoples' entire rigs rolling down the road or apply to hauling for hire/business purposes. In other words, you could mount some 19.5s on your Geo Metro and throw 5 tons in the back, should you be so inclined, assuming you're in line paperwork-wise and you can stop within whatever insanely long distance (that most modern vehicles can easily exceed downhill in the rain on bald tires) your state specifies.

The manufacturer sets these limits as guidelines and for warranty reasons. It's your vehicle, feel free to follow them, or not. Chances are, as long as you've got the brakes sorted and aren't insanely stupid about it (flat towing another motorhome maybe?), it probably won't end in tears, but maybe a lot of horn honking from people passing you. 🙂

[ugh]

A lot of people go over the weight limit. If you do that, I would recommend staying on top of replacing the transmission fluid on time. When I go over the limit, I change the transmission fluid as soon as I get home. Once the transmission overheats, it no longer can do the job effectively and that leads to damage transmission.

[mowermech]

I have towed a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited behind both a 29 ft. Class C (460 Ford) and a 32 ft. Class A (Ford V10). The Jeep was modified with custom bumpers, winch, suspension lift, body lift, engine lift, and 30 gallon gas tank. Sometimes it had the soft top on it, sometimes the hard top. No problems going over the Continental Divide with either coach. No, I have no idea what it weighed. (horrors!!) I also used a fixed arm adjustable width towbar on it. $165 at Walmart! (more horrors). No problems there, either, even though "they" say it is just too much trouble!
But, back to the towing...
Now, I tow the truck in my sig., with a fiberglas topper on it, behind the coach in my sig...
Again, several trips over the Continental Divide (if I go West, I eventually go over the Divide, no choice in the matter!). Again, no problems.
No, I don't know what the Dodge weighs. However, I did get a 6000 lb. capacity telescoping towbar from craigslist especially to tow the truck. My old towbar was only 5000 lb. capacity. IMO, the only thing the Roadmaster has going for it is the capacity and it was only $250! I don't like the thing.
This is merely a statement of what I do and have done. It is not intended to be a recommendation that anybody do anything.
the readers will have to make up their own minds.
Good luck.

[tatest]

How much you can tow with a C or an A gasser will depend on the size of the motorhome. More weight in the motorhome, less weight you can tow.

Ford gives the E-450 chassis a GCWR of 22,000 pounds, maximum tow of 10,000 pounds. If the motorhome, loaded, is no more than 12,000 pounds, the 10,000 is there for towing, unless the RV manufacturer had reason to downgrade the maximum tow. Many install a 5000 pound hitch at the factory.

The base F-53 chassis used on a gassers today is GCWR 26,000 pounds. Put a 16,000 pound motorhome on that, the chassis can handle another 10,000. Put a 22,000 pound motorhome on that, you have only 4000 left. Again, the RV manufacturer may have had reason to limit the tow to something less than Ford's ratings, and I don't know of any coming from the factory with a 10,000 pound hitch.

You have to watch the ratings on diesel pushers as well. Most capable of a 10,000 pound tow will be above the 33,000 pound GVWR class. Pusher chassis in the 26,000 to 31,000 GVWR class might have less GCWR margin for towing, so it depends on which chassis was used for the build and how heavily it gets loaded.

I see motorhomes pulling Yukons, Suburbans, full-size vans, even two-car enclosed trailers, but they are almost always top-level diesel pushers in the 40,000 to 50,000 pound class which will have a chassis with 400 to 600 horsepower and 60,000 to 70,000 pound combined weight rating.

Having to spend an extra $100,000 to move up to a motorhome that can tow your big SUV leaves a lot of room to buy a smaller towed vehicle. I have a 2500 pound car I bought for towing behind my C (which can tow at least 5000) and has a side benefit of getting 30 mpg running around town (close to 40 highway, but I like something bigger for long trips).

[Bobbo]

Limits are not just the hitch. Also in play is the transmission, brakes, frame and any extensions, suspension,. . . .


Well you get the idea.

You need to go with a Super C on a REAL truck chassis, or a bigger diesel pusher Class A.

[Two_Hands]

If you want to have something that big as your dingy it would be best to go with a diesel pusher.

[dahkota]

"is the limitation of most Gas class A and C MHs just the hitch?"

Well, not really. Our chassis is rated for 26K lb. combined, 22K lb., gross, and has a 5K lb. hitch.

If we pull a 5K lb. towed, our gross chassis weight can be 21K lb. (if following manufacturer's limits). Which would mean we loose 1K lb. of cargo weight.

But, if you don't bother with the combined weight limit imposed on your chassis, and you upgrade your hitch, then it is possible. However, chances are you will stress the engine, frame, and transmission excessively over time. And then there is the problem of accidents and sue-happy people.

[kalynzoo]

Many years ago when we had one of our gas motorhomes (can't remember if it was the V10 or the 8.1)I saw a gas MH driving into the RV park in the Colorado Rockies pulling a full size van. We've always limited ourselves to a small wagon (pre-suv days). So Wow, I went over to start a conversation and see how they got along towing the van. Anyway, they were just pulling into the RV park from the shop a few miles down the road since they had to have the transmission on the RV replaced...burned it out. They were going to have to drive the rest of the vacation in tandem.
Anyway, I'd advise against.