Trouble with California

[pitch]

Ag. Check points;we all know understand and tolerate them,never a problem.
Couple of weeks ago we were heade to redwood. National forest from Grants Pas Oregon.
Ag check ahead, ok I fall into line with everyone else,multiple lanes,cars trucks,other rv,s. Everyone pauses about thirty seconds and moves on. Normal right?
My turn, she looks at my NY tags,Have you any fresh fruits or vegetables on board?"
"No we Don,t"
"w
When was the last time this vehicle was in Ny?"
"About 8or9weeks ago."

She then grabs a flashlight and inspection miror and gives the undercarriage of both truck and trailer a thorough going over. She then does a second tour inspecting the roof area.
I was quite surprised,but oh well not an imposition.
"I would like to inspect the interior"

"Not with out a warrant"
"Sir Weare trying to protect our agricultural resources"

"I understand that,bbut you are not entering my trailer without a warrant !"

She gave me a look that could kill,and entered her both and made a phone call.

Minute is so later she comes out,shoves a handful of invasive critter literature into my hand and said,"move on"

Has anyone else been subjected to such nonsense,or did this inspector just have a bone for New Yorkers?

[Eric_Lisa]

CFerguson wrote:
...No, Hoover Dam is different. Its considered something like a critical infrastructure site by Homeland Security or something.
And that's understandable imo.

Yup. To drive across Hoover dam, you have to go through an inspection point. And the only thing you can do is turn around and come back, they closed the vehicle access from the AZ side. To drive across the (new) Hwy 93 bypass bridge, you just keep the cruise control set and change your clocks to the new time zone.

bpounds wrote:
...Your vehicle has no rights at all. I'm pretty sure you could walk across without a search.

Right. A vehicle has no rights. As a possession, with me in it, the rights I have are extended to it.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized"

So RVs, which can be classified as a house/home/residence are excluded? Even in a vehicle, a car can be considered covered under "and effects". I don't think a state can just toss people out of their vehicle and search it on a whim. Probable cause needs to be articulated by the authority.

Going way back to the OP's original post and asking when the vehicle entering California was last in New York, and getting the answer 8-9 weeks ago. That really gets thin on the 'probable cause' clause. If the OP had said 'we have been hanging around the apple orchards in WA state', that would be probable cause. But they didn't say that.

-Eric

[smarty]

yet another reason not to go to Cali?

[CFerguson]

wa8yxm wrote:
When you cross a border. be it international or state to state.

The state or country you are entering has the right to inspect. No warrant needed. Same for crossing the Hoover Dam I might add and some other locations.

Been that way a long long time. Not a problem for me. Unless you are carrying counter banned goods it should not be an issue for anyone. Very good reasons for the inspections.

No, Hoover Dam is different. Its considered something like a critical infrastructure site by Homeland Security or something.
And that's understandable imo.

[ppine]

Get rid of your NY attitude as soon as possible.
People doing their jobs protecting the gigantic ag industry.
Learn to deal with westerners. Do not be so direct. Be friendly. Then they won't be tempted to inspect your rig.

[bpounds]

Eric&Lisa wrote:
Really? We don't have free passage between the states?

You do. The bugs you're infested with don't. Your vehicle has no rights at all. I'm pretty sure you could walk across without a search.

[wa8yxm]

When you cross a border. be it international or state to state.

The state or country you are entering has the right to inspect. No warrant needed. Same for crossing the Hoover Dam I might add and some other locations.

Been that way a long long time. Not a problem for me. Unless you are carrying counter banned goods it should not be an issue for anyone. Very good reasons for the inspections.

[Eric_Lisa]

Alan_Hepburn wrote:
You certainly have the right to refuse a search, but then they also have the right to tell you to turn around and go back the way you came...

Really? We don't have free passage between the states? And didn't all those states agree to the 4th Amendment regarding unreasonable searches?

I just don't see how one state can refuse entry to a citizen of another state, just because that citizen is holding the state accountable to the laws the state agreed to.

It is not private property. It is not a foreign country. I don't think a state can refuse entry without a reason. And a citizen refusing to be searched without cause is not a valid reason for suspicion!

-Eric

[Yosemite_Sam1]

Range Maggot Bob wrote:

Yosemite Sam1 wrote:

Airdaile wrote:

et2 wrote:


I'm not even from California but understand why it's the national and global trend-setter, technological and environmental benchmark.

I am, and it's certainly none of those things anymore. Maybe ten years ago... Horrible place and I don't even want to go back to visit anymore.

This must be a wrong bracketing of a quote as I certainly did not say it.

In fact, California campgrounds — National, country, regional and city — are my favorites.

Even my handle is a tribute to my favorite and what I think is the most beautiful national park.

I’m even an admirer of the state with it’s high-tech people, open-mindedness and it’s state administration and environmental programs.

[jdc1]

Alan_Hepburn wrote:
You certainly have the right to refuse a search, but then they also have the right to tell you to turn around and go back the way you came...

Best answer on this post! Love it.

[jdc1]

pitch wrote:
Ag. Check points;we all know understand and tolerate them,never a problem.
Couple of weeks ago we were heade to redwood. National forest from Grants Pas Oregon.
Ag check ahead, ok I fall into line with everyone else,multiple lanes,cars trucks,other rv,s. E

"I understand that,bbut you are not entering my trailer without a warrant !"

She gave me a look that could kill,and entered her both and made a phone call.

Minute is so later she comes out,shoves a handful of invasive critter literature into my hand and said,"move on"

Sounds like she was doing what she was paid to do.

[Range_Maggot_Bo]

Yosemite Sam1 wrote:

Airdaile wrote:

et2 wrote:


I'm not even from California but understand why it's the national and global trend-setter, technological and environmental benchmark.

I am, and it's certainly none of those things anymore. Maybe ten years ago... Horrible place and I don't even want to go back to visit anymore.

[JRscooby]

toedtoes wrote:
First:

Their asking and then choosing to search is not about YOUR feelings, it's about them doing a job and having to make a choice based on a wide range of observations.

I have gone into my places where I expected my vehicle to be searched. Never been happy about it, but understand the necessity. (Hate to think of Rent-a-Cop guarding our military base) Once, I was setting on a wide shoulder waiting. Couple of armed MPs pulled up, asked me what I was doing. "Waiting for friend to get unloaded so can move what can't go thru gate to his truck." No issue.

Funny how it is so upsetting for an old white guy to be singled out of a line for a more indepth scrutiny about a bag of fruit. "Oh the horrors! They think I'm lying!"

I have never been one to think there is a limited number of "rights", the only way others can have any is for me to give up mine.
But I also understand we live in a country where one man can order the execution of anybody. The power has been used against a juvenile US citizen, and there was no general public outcry.

Second:

If they let someone else take that fruit (or firewood, etc.), it will very likely find it's way into the state. Or will be dumped a few miles away when found to be infested with a bug and that bug will find its way over the state line. And if that happens, then the ag folks didn't do their job.

By that logic, nobody in a state that borders Cal should not be allowed to have fruit or firewood. The probability that the stopped produce is contaminated is very low. There is a good chance it was hauled out of state once before. Fact is, any produce destroyed is just a increase in demand.

[soccrman]

Acampingwewillgo wrote:
Just for kicks, and I don't know if this is still done or not but a number of years ago while traveling the New cross-over at Hoover Dam, there was a check-point. Not border patrol or Ag inspection but one that required all RV's to stop and open up your compartments( can't recall if they also entered the RV)…. it was a no brainer but I suppose that if you refused, you would not be allowed to cross.

This also happened to me way back in 2005. It was more thorough than the one at the Can/USA border.

[Acampingwewillg]

Even after all these responses, "Snowflake" still doesn't grasp the idea of a "deterrent" whether the booths are manned or not. Some people "pucker" just from reading the sign's of Inspection Ahead" ….they don't pull out their Constitutional Law Book and plan the attack.

Actually this is kinda funny, I went away for a whole week and this topic is still going strong!!!

[Yosemite_Sam1]

pitch wrote:
Snowflake the OP here.
Strange darn thing, I entered California on I 15 Friday morning,I was met with a wall of inspection booths,all unmanned. Myself and several thousand(probably mutitudes) of my fellow travelers merrily transported whatever pests into were in on or incorporated into their vehicle into California. Yep ag checks are a vital thing. Yep Okay!
No Warrant No Entry!

Snowflake and unedumacated.

It will be manned and strict when they got alerts of infestations from some states across the borders.

And next time it happens, insist on asking for a warrant with your best attitude shown (like after a lost sleep when wifey have you sleep on the sofa).

Or, better still show the same show-me-a-warrant and that attitude during drug interdiction operations when they do it together with state troopers and DEA in those checkpoints.