what if tongue weight is the only "problem"?

[Slidepop]

I just set up my Airstream 28' with a 2016 F250 diesel equipped with Ride Rite airbags and an adjustable height hitch. As set up, my setup at about 20 lbs in the airbags gives me a level truck and level camper.

The rig seems to drive just fine -- a little smoother than the F250 dually I used to tow the trailer with, and it doesn't seem to wander at all at any speed. The electronic sway control built into the F250 has not activated once in about 500 miles of towing. I have not yet driven in heavy wind.

I weighed the rig yesterday at a certified scale. None of my axle weights (steering, drive, and trailer axles) came anywhere near the weight limits for the axles, and I am many thousands of pounds under the towing weight limit, and way under the GVWR for both the camper and the tow vehicle.

My tongue weight, however, is 960 (the stated limit for tongue weight on the F250 is 800 lbs with the "standard" hitch supplied with the truck). This happens to be exactly 15% of my total trailer weight -- just at the upper limit percentage of TT weight recommended by Ford and, it seems, everyone else.

My question: Do I need a WD hitch? According to the Ford towing guide, this would raise my tongue weight limit to 1400 lbs (if the WD hitch weighs 80 lbs, the actual tongue weight will be 1040 lbs). But it seems potentially wrong to me to mess with the distribution of the weight (and add the weight of the hitch) when the vehicle seems to drive well and I'm nowhere near the weight limits for any axle or the GVWRs.

[Slowmover]

A trailer with independent suspension must ride level. Not nose down.

A WDH with integrated anti-sway on a Class V Titan receiver is simple to accomplish. And not difficult to adjust based on certified scale readings. Better handling and braking. Same for getting TV tire pressures correct. Too much air is a very bad idea.

Forgotten by many is that this static measurement at the hitch ball is only a representation of roadgoing dynamics. That long lever from TT axles to hitch ball can exert thousands of pounds of force. Spreading that force across three sets of wheels makes a better responding rig.

The sail area of a TT is what makes both WD and antisway a good choice. Trailers with a low wind profile aren't comparable. "Weight" is a lesser consideration against what causes loss of control accidents.

What engine is in the TV makes little difference, if any. It's pretty much irrelevant to what matters in achieving best performance.

[Hannibal]

I ran into the same situation with our F250 and Jayco 28RLS. Our receiver is rated for 650 lbs tongue weight. I think 1250 with WD. The advertised tongue weight is 700 lbs. It's probably up around 850-900 with battery, full propane and all of our stuff in the closets and pass through. I bought a Reese HP trunion style WD hitch with 800 lb bars for no other reason than to satisfy the rating of the receiver. I attach the bars to the last link and it tows like a champ. No sway control needed. I've found over the years that I get the best tow with as little lift as I can get away with on the WD. preferably none if the TV is capable.
I've watched the delivery drivers deliver some big ones at the dealership using one ton duallies with just the ball. No WD or sway control.

[burningman]

You could put a rear carrier rack on the back bumper of that Airstream and carry something... and put your hitch weight right where you want it!

[tatest]

You could go to a weight distribution hitch (which puts a different kind of load on the receiver) or you could replace the OEM receiver with a more adequate one. Reese sells a Class IV with 1200 TW and a Class V with 1800 TW. You should find similar offerings from Curt, Draw-Tight, maybe even U-Haul.

I'm not in the "WD is always needed for RV trailers" camp, being familiar with regular hauling of heavy agricultural equipment and stock and utility trailers by this class of truck, without WD. It is just not practical when you might be moving around 3-4 different tows in the course of a single working day, to be hooking up and adjusting WD equipment.

[Grit_dog]

mkirsch wrote:
Knowledge is power. Being able to "number crunch" gives you the ability to figure out where you currently stand. Then you can look at the numbers and make a conscious decision that you're good with where you are, or not.

You are absolutely correct and I agree with you.
For some reason, the multitude of "omg, the sky is falling, you're 160lbs over ______stated limit, get a wdh, get a bigger truck, call the national guard!" posts get to me as they are just as misleading as the "you can haul a 12klb 5ver with a half ton cause my brothers, cousins, buddy's sister in law did it for 15 years and she was blind with a peg leg."
Difference is, the weight cop posts probably scare a lot of folks into going and spending money on stuff that isn't necessary.

[BenK]

Turtle...again spot on and one of the biggest goals in setting up any trailer...

One goal is to have the trailer level at its highest pointing and IMHO prefer/recommend
pointing slightly down

There are several other goals too. Enough tongue weight, TV ratings, etc, etc, etc.

[mkirsch]

Knowledge is power. Being able to "number crunch" gives you the ability to figure out where you currently stand. Then you can look at the numbers and make a conscious decision that you're good with where you are, or not.

[time2roll]

Slidepop wrote:
My tongue weight, however, is 960 (the stated limit for tongue weight on the F250 is 800 lbs with the "standard" hitch supplied with the truck).

Does it actually say this stamped into the hitch?

Often two ratings are stamped on the hitch. With weight distribution and without weight distribution. Are you sure you are reading both?

[Grit_dog]

Against the better advice and instructions from all the numbers crunchers. (My wife would go bananas if I was out there counting every box of cheerios and where it was placed within the rig,lol! But I do secretly take sh t back out of the camper when she's not looking, haha)
8000lb trailer with 960lbs tongue weight on the hitch is child's play for your truck, trailer hitch receiver included, especially with the 2-1/2" receiver. Leaving out all the stories of how much I and a million other people haul on a trailer hitch every day without issue, I'll say it's not breaking a sweat supporting your trailer, nor will it.
You also have to remember the rvnet #1 rule.... If it has wheels in back and a hitch on the front, you MUST use a wdh!! NO exceptions. Lol

Don't be surprised if your account gets shut down since you've admitted towing without a wdh...

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

Thanks Ben.

GMW sounds like you did a great job of setting up your rig! You know all your weights and set your rig up to them.

I get a lot of people don't have access to scales like I do and for them just transferring a bit of the weight is usually good enough. For those of you that do have access to scales go the extra mile and dial in your setup like GMW did.

If you do you will be rewarded with a superior handling rig.

While I'm at it. Set the front end of your trailer 1 or 2" low in the front. It will help with panic braking a bunch by keeping things in line.

[BenK]

Turtle & GMW are spot on and agree with them

The OEMs all have dialed in the handling behavior of all of their vehicles...even TV's...

Meaning it steers neutral, over-steer, under-steer both empty through GVWR
For a sports car...neutral to over-steer is desired for 'good' to 'expert'
drivers. For the general drivers...an under-steer tendency is the
general goal for most all OEMs

Why 911's of old had the reputation of leaving the road tail first and
why Nadar was/is so wrong for the Corvair...for the general driver out
there...it is the wrong setup...as GM semi-copied the VW/Porsche rear
suspension setup.

By placing a weight on the tail, that upsets that dialed in behavior/handling...especially
during an emergency maneuver

Am older than most here and remember the old WD systems and the rule of thumb of
even drop. The amount of weight to do so is different front and rear because of
the different suspension spring rates front to rear

That translates to keeping the OEM dialed in steering geometry and handling,
which includes how the tires are mushed into the pavement via that flat spot

That flat spot changes during the dynamics of an emergency maneuver and that then
has several other things affecting that tire. Like the suspension components and
their sizing/adjustments/etc

For towing, IMHO, under-steering is the desired handling...not overly so...just
the tendency to do so.

Over-steer is the worst thing for towing and leads to a potential jack-knife situation

Bottom line: follow YOUR TV's manual instructions, as today has so many differing
OEM/suspension setups that there is no one size fits all...therefore be careful
of advisors who advise out of context to 'YOUR' vehicle

To the OP...for about $200 bucks and about an hours labor, change out
the OEM receiver for a higher rated one

[gmw_photos]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Lantley wrote:
Ideally the WDH will keep front axle weight the same as unhitched.

Exactly, and that's what you don't want. I know it's been parroted over and over on here but it's just not a good thing to do and even the manufacture have finally realized it.

As I have already stated, a 50/50 weight on both the front and rear axel is the best for handling and braking on any vehicle. Ever notice how the new trucks have their engine tucked up under the dash? There is a reason for that. They are trying to build a 50/50 front to rear weight bias. In the racing game we take it to the extreme by taking tire temperatures on all 4 tires and 3 different areas. We want all of the tires to do the same amount of work. And before anybody starts; it doesn't matter if this vehicle is an Indy car and a F350.

Pickups are inherently front end heavy because of how they are made. Diesel trucks are more so because of the big ol block of iron and aluminum sitting right on the front axel.

And while I'm on the subject. Ever notice that WD hitch manufactures and pickup truck manufactures don't recommend to bring the height of the front tire and the wheel well opening back to unhitched height anymore. Have any idea why they are doing that; because I do. They are trying to get more towards that 50/50 weight bias that I have talked about for years.

With my truck and travel trailer, setting the WD hitch to 100% FALR has resulted in nearly a 50/50 balance on the truck axles. Anything less that 100% would have resulted in the drive axle being substantially more than 50%.

At this setting, the truck and trailer drive very well indeed.

This discussion of using 50% FALR, vs 100%, vs "more than 100%" ( equal squat ) is still a hotly contested debate among many "experts".

EDIT: the Nissan owner manual states that when using WD hitch, the front ride height should be returned to between 0" and 1/2" higher than unloaded height. In other words, they suggest that 100% FALR is an appropriate setting.

[noteven]

owenssailor wrote:
Put on a heavier hitch receiver if you are adamant about not wanting a WD hitch.

Me - I'd upgrade the receiver and use a WD hitch.

Me - I would use a WD hitch but keep the 1400lbs rated receiver when loading it at 1080.23645 lbs.

[mkirsch]

Yes, upgrade the receiver. Problem solved.

You will PROBABLY be okay as-is, but do you really want to trust the fate of your investment, and possibly the lives of your family and others around you to PROBABLY?

Odds are the receiver you install won't even be any heavier or look any different than the one you have now, but at least it will be rated for the load, which covers you from a liability standpoint.

Are you at least using a shank and ball that are rated for the trailer?