Why not forget holding tanks and just use portable tanks?

[nicpaige]

I have an all aluminum trailer that I am turning into a toy hauler. The floor framing is 12" on center and I beam construction. This only leaves 8-9" width to fit the tanks in between the rails. For any kind of volume the tank would have to be quite tall. I do not want my storage tanks 7" from the road for obvious reasons. So......
Is it just craziness to think about running the drains to the waste valves and straight into those portable tanks you can roll to the dump station? I realize I would need one for grey and one for the black tank.
What am I missing in this process? Or is it feasible and been done before?

Thanks,
Rick

[JaxDad]

Gdetrailer wrote:

JaxDad wrote:

BillyBob Jim wrote:

the bear II wrote:
That would work for most boondocking areas but most RV, National and state parks require RVs to meet RVIA standards which include holding tanks. You'll see park rules state "Must be fully self contained"

Recreation Vehicle Industry Association (RVIA)

Those blue portable tanks can be a hand full to dump depending on where you have to dump them. The smell can be deadly.

Holding tanks with a sealed sewer hose setup is the best way to go. Little or no smell or mess.

That's simply opinion. I have never seen in the published rules for any State or Federal Campground I am familiar with, which is more than a few, anything that references RVIA standards or the RVIA at all. The RVIA is a voluntary organization, there are RV manufacturers that do not even belong to RVIA. Are tent campers required to be self contained also.

OP, I have used and dumped a tote tank often. It's not the nightmare folks claim on these boards. Get a 4 wheel tote with a side mounted dump valve. You would not need separate totes for black and gray to do what you describe, you'll be dumping it down the same hole. No one is going to give you any flack or toss you from a campground for having a tote tank connected 24/7.

RVIA is merely the oversight body, the actual rules that must be adhered to are NFPA or ANSI standards. A quick look at any RVIA oval seal will show that it says that the seal is confirming the RV was built in compliance with NFPA XXX or some such standard.

RVIA certification is NOT mandatory, conforming to the standards IS mandatory.

As for campground rules, not seeing them, or they being enforced by unknowing (or uncaring) employees, does not mean they do not exist. Below is just one example of the many I’ve seen, at a park I frequent myself. A friend who did a similar rig, a converted cargo trailer, finally sold it because he was being refused a site so often.

Click here and see Rule # 24.4 in the middle of page 11.

It’s not just sewage either, fresh water plumbing, built in 120 volt wiring and / or propane appliances other than portables require certification to be legal also.

In lots of jurisdictions it’s also illegal to sell such a homemade rig unless it’s certified.

Jax,

You ARE forgetting that not "everyone" on this forum lives in CANADA.

Here in the USA we DO NOT HAVE TO FOLLOW CANADA'S RULES.

CANADA'S RULES DO NOT APPLY IN THE USA.

THERE IS ZERO RULES COVERING HOMEMADE CAMPERS PERIOD IN THE USA OTHER THAN FOLLOWING GOOD ELECTRICAL PRACTICE SET OUT BY THE NEC IF YOU WANT TO PLUG YOUR HOMEMADE RV INTO THE ELECTRIC GRID.

For the USA the ONLY thing that does need to be taken into consideration is the DOT requirements for outside lighting and braking/tires safety items..

What is done inside doesn't matter.

That's it.

We ARE FREE to build our own RVs any way we want provided it meets ALL DOT specifications for ROAD WORTHINESS.

myredracer wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:

Jax does not get it, understand it and most likely will never understand it that Canadian rules that they are under do not apply once you cross the line from Canada to USA.

Jax has a continual and deliberate habit of trying scare people into not doing something because they are not "Approved" by some overbearing Gov agency in Canada.

I seriously doubt that 99% of the population in Canada follow all of those rules which Jax is so happy to point out to USA folks.. There is lots of primitive shacks in Canada which would not pass the muster for any rules..

WOW!! I HAVE TO SAY THAT THOSE MUST BE THE MOST IGNORANT AND OFFENSIVE COMMENTS I'VE EVER READ ON THIS FORUM. (Caps for emphasis, not shouting.)

How overbearing...

Don’t worry about their behaviour, it’s a recurring theme indeed, make stupid inflammatory comments, but then ignore the posted facts, rinse & repeat.

mom, he’s at it again. Clicky, clicky.

Then scroll down a couple of posts.

There’s lots more examples if anyone is interested.

[free_radical]

nicpaige wrote:
I have an all aluminum trailer that I am turning into a toy hauler. The floor framing is 12" on center and I beam construction. This only leaves 8-9" width to fit the tanks in between the rails. For any kind of volume the tank would have to be quite tall. I do not want my storage tanks 7" from the road for obvious reasons. So......
Is it just craziness to think about running the drains to the waste valves and straight into those portable tanks you can roll to the dump station? I realize I would need one for grey and one for the black tank.
What am I missing in this process? Or is it feasible and been done before?

Thanks,
Rick

Why not use composting toilet?
No need for black tank

[free_radical]

steelhunter wrote:
Why bother with tanks at all?

Just cut a hole in the floor and bombs away!

Best advice yet / S.

Your neigboors must love you!

[time2roll]

Best part of selling my pop-up was selling the portable tank with it.
Have not missed the separate tank.

[JaxDad]

Gdetrailer wrote:

JaxDad wrote:

BillyBob Jim wrote:

the bear II wrote:
That would work for most boondocking areas but most RV, National and state parks require RVs to meet RVIA standards which include holding tanks. You'll see park rules state "Must be fully self contained"

Recreation Vehicle Industry Association (RVIA)

Those blue portable tanks can be a hand full to dump depending on where you have to dump them. The smell can be deadly.

Holding tanks with a sealed sewer hose setup is the best way to go. Little or no smell or mess.

That's simply opinion. I have never seen in the published rules for any State or Federal Campground I am familiar with, which is more than a few, anything that references RVIA standards or the RVIA at all. The RVIA is a voluntary organization, there are RV manufacturers that do not even belong to RVIA. Are tent campers required to be self contained also.

OP, I have used and dumped a tote tank often. It's not the nightmare folks claim on these boards. Get a 4 wheel tote with a side mounted dump valve. You would not need separate totes for black and gray to do what you describe, you'll be dumping it down the same hole. No one is going to give you any flack or toss you from a campground for having a tote tank connected 24/7.

RVIA is merely the oversight body, the actual rules that must be adhered to are NFPA or ANSI standards. A quick look at any RVIA oval seal will show that it says that the seal is confirming the RV was built in compliance with NFPA XXX or some such standard.

RVIA certification is NOT mandatory, conforming to the standards IS mandatory.

As for campground rules, not seeing them, or they being enforced by unknowing (or uncaring) employees, does not mean they do not exist. Below is just one example of the many I’ve seen, at a park I frequent myself. A friend who did a similar rig, a converted cargo trailer, finally sold it because he was being refused a site so often.

Click here and see Rule # 24.4 in the middle of page 11.

It’s not just sewage either, fresh water plumbing, built in 120 volt wiring and / or propane appliances other than portables require certification to be legal also.

In lots of jurisdictions it’s also illegal to sell such a homemade rig unless it’s certified.

Jax,

You ARE forgetting that not "everyone" on this forum lives in CANADA.

Here in the USA we DO NOT HAVE TO FOLLOW CANADA'S RULES.

CANADA'S RULES DO NOT APPLY IN THE USA.

THERE IS ZERO RULES COVERING HOMEMADE CAMPERS PERIOD IN THE USA OTHER THAN FOLLOWING GOOD ELECTRICAL PRACTICE SET OUT BY THE NEC IF YOU WANT TO PLUG YOUR HOMEMADE RV INTO THE ELECTRIC GRID.

Only Canadians are bound by such overbearing archaic rules which only profit the local gov with permit fees and all of the special trades that charge enormous costly fees to do the work.

That means there is NO ELECTRICAL PERMITS OR INSPECTION REQUIRED

NO PLUMBING PERMITS OR INSPECTION REQUIRED (INCLUDING WATER AND PROPANE)

THERE IS NO BUILDING PERMITS OR INSPECTIONS REQUIRED.

For the USA the ONLY thing that does need to be taken into consideration is the DOT requirements for outside lighting and braking/tires safety items..

What is done inside doesn't matter.

That's it.

We ARE FREE to build our own RVs any way we want provided it meets ALL DOT specifications for ROAD WORTHINESS.

That means we can build a RV frame up from scratch, or rebuild an existing RV, or take a cargo trailer, flatbed trailer or heck even an old truck bed and put axles under it all without archaic rules.

The majority of campgrounds in the USA will not refuse or reject a homemade RV because it does not have the CANADIAN seal of approval or RVIA seal. Sure, there are some campgrounds catering to multi-million dollar RVs only but those are few.

According to you, my fully rebuilt RV is not acceptable in Canada because I didn't pay outlandinsh permits nor did I have special trades come in to rebuild it..

No, I fully rebuilt it myself, it hasn't caught fire, hasn't caused and accident, hasn't killed anyone and I haven't had any campground refuse it because it doesn't look factory, or it doesn't have any special seals plaster all over it.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA.........

oh, sorry, you were trying to be serious..........

The standards associations, ANSI (American National Standards Institute) and NFPA (National Fire Protection Association), and the laws requiring compliance with them, are AMERICAN.

You are the only one who mentioned Canadian requirements.

The DOT requirements ONLY cover the ‘vehicle’ portions of an RV, the ‘house’ portions are covered by life safety reg’s and they most certainly exist, nationwide.

[myredracer]

Gdetrailer wrote:

Jax does not get it, understand it and most likely will never understand it that Canadian rules that they are under do not apply once you cross the line from Canada to USA.

Jax has a continual and deliberate habit of trying scare people into not doing something because they are not "Approved" by some overbearing Gov agency in Canada.

I seriously doubt that 99% of the population in Canada follow all of those rules which Jax is so happy to point out to USA folks.. There is lots of primitive shacks in Canada which would not pass the muster for any rules..

WOW!! I HAVE TO SAY THAT THOSE MUST BE THE MOST IGNORANT AND OFFENSIVE COMMENTS I'VE EVER READ ON THIS FORUM. (Caps for emphasis, not shouting.)

Thanks to Canada and our progressive and rigorous standards, MANY products in the US carry CSA (Canadian Standard Assoc.) certification which have been adopted in the US and also around the world. CSA protects the safety and health of everyday Americans every day whether you know it or not or like it or not. Yeah, we're so primitive here.

CSA standards (and others) in themselves are voluntary but they're often legally required to be complied with under various OHS laws and other codes and regulations that MUST be legally followed in Canada, the US and elsewhere. Some American standards (NFPA for ex.) are legally required to be followed in Canada. It works both ways. How overbearing...

[Grit_dog]

Back on topic, hauling your sht in a tote sounds like a pain in the ____.
And are you actually staying in a full hookup park or somewhere with a sewer dump within walking distance with a cargo trailer?

[westernrvparkow]

There is no law that says only RVIA certified RVs are allowed in parks, public or private. The RVIA certification can be used as a tool for parks to exclude home built RVs and the like. We have seen some homebuilts that appear neither safe or sanitary. Point out the RVIA requirement in our fine print and we may avoid conflict when we refuse to rent a site.
As for all the other codes, NEC etc. there is no inspector or enforcement agent applying such standards to individuals. You can wire and plumb your rig any way you desire without worrying about being hauled away to electricians or plumbers prison. At least that is how the US works. The systems in Canada and North Korea may be different. Now there may be huge liability issues should someone get injured but that is a different story line.

[Gdetrailer]

fj12ryder wrote:
Is shouting really necessary? Sometimes calm and rational explanation beats shouting our your message.

For Jax, absolutely IS "necessary" because every single post on this forum which someone is homebuilding or modifying a RV is ALWAYS pointing out "Canadian" rules which totally prohibit such activity.

Jax does not get it, understand it and most likely will never understand it that Canadian rules that they are under do not apply once you cross the line from Canada to USA.

Jax has a continual and deliberate habit of trying scare people into not doing something because they are not "Approved" by some overbearing Gov agency in Canada.

I seriously doubt that 99% of the population in Canada follow all of those rules which Jax is so happy to point out to USA folks.. There is lots of primitive shacks in Canada which would not pass the muster for any rules..

[2oldman]

It's a quote-fest.

[fj12ryder]

Gdetrailer wrote:

JaxDad wrote:

BillyBob Jim wrote:

the bear II wrote:
That would work for most boondocking areas but most RV, National and state parks require RVs to meet RVIA standards which include holding tanks. You'll see park rules state "Must be fully self contained"

Recreation Vehicle Industry Association (RVIA)

Those blue portable tanks can be a hand full to dump depending on where you have to dump them. The smell can be deadly.

Holding tanks with a sealed sewer hose setup is the best way to go. Little or no smell or mess.

That's simply opinion. I have never seen in the published rules for any State or Federal Campground I am familiar with, which is more than a few, anything that references RVIA standards or the RVIA at all. The RVIA is a voluntary organization, there are RV manufacturers that do not even belong to RVIA. Are tent campers required to be self contained also.

OP, I have used and dumped a tote tank often. It's not the nightmare folks claim on these boards. Get a 4 wheel tote with a side mounted dump valve. You would not need separate totes for black and gray to do what you describe, you'll be dumping it down the same hole. No one is going to give you any flack or toss you from a campground for having a tote tank connected 24/7.

RVIA is merely the oversight body, the actual rules that must be adhered to are NFPA or ANSI standards. A quick look at any RVIA oval seal will show that it says that the seal is confirming the RV was built in compliance with NFPA XXX or some such standard.

RVIA certification is NOT mandatory, conforming to the standards IS mandatory.

As for campground rules, not seeing them, or they being enforced by unknowing (or uncaring) employees, does not mean they do not exist. Below is just one example of the many I’ve seen, at a park I frequent myself. A friend who did a similar rig, a converted cargo trailer, finally sold it because he was being refused a site so often.

Click here and see Rule # 24.4 in the middle of page 11.

It’s not just sewage either, fresh water plumbing, built in 120 volt wiring and / or propane appliances other than portables require certification to be legal also.

In lots of jurisdictions it’s also illegal to sell such a homemade rig unless it’s certified.

Jax,

You ARE forgetting that not "everyone" on this forum lives in CANADA.

Here in the USA we DO NOT HAVE TO FOLLOW CANADA'S RULES.

CANADA'S RULES DO NOT APPLY IN THE USA.

THERE IS ZERO RULES COVERING HOMEMADE CAMPERS PERIOD IN THE USA OTHER THAN FOLLOWING GOOD ELECTRICAL PRACTICE SET OUT BY THE NEC IF YOU WANT TO PLUG YOUR HOMEMADE RV INTO THE ELECTRIC GRID.

Only Canadians are bound by such overbearing archaic rules which only profit the local gov with permit fees and all of the special trades that charge enormous costly fees to do the work.

That means there is NO ELECTRICAL PERMITS OR INSPECTION REQUIRED

NO PLUMBING PERMITS OR INSPECTION REQUIRED (INCLUDING WATER AND PROPANE)

THERE IS NO BUILDING PERMITS OR INSPECTIONS REQUIRED.

For the USA the ONLY thing that does need to be taken into consideration is the DOT requirements for outside lighting and braking/tires safety items..

What is done inside doesn't matter.

That's it.

We ARE FREE to build our own RVs any way we want provided it meets ALL DOT specifications for ROAD WORTHINESS.

That means we can build a RV frame up from scratch, or rebuild an existing RV, or take a cargo trailer, flatbed trailer or heck even an old truck bed and put axles under it all without archaic rules.

The majority of campgrounds in the USA will not refuse or reject a homemade RV because it does not have the CANADIAN seal of approval or RVIA seal. Sure, there are some campgrounds catering to multi-million dollar RVs only but those are few.

According to you, my fully rebuilt RV is not acceptable in Canada because I didn't pay outlandinsh permits nor did I have special trades come in to rebuild it..

No, I fully rebuilt it myself, it hasn't caught fire, hasn't caused and accident, hasn't killed anyone and I haven't had any campground refuse it because it doesn't look factory, or it doesn't have any special seals plaster all over it.

Is shouting really necessary? Sometimes calm and rational explanation beats shouting our your message.

[Charlie_D_]

Why would you need a separate tote for grey and black?

[Gdetrailer]

JaxDad wrote:

BillyBob Jim wrote:

the bear II wrote:
That would work for most boondocking areas but most RV, National and state parks require RVs to meet RVIA standards which include holding tanks. You'll see park rules state "Must be fully self contained"

Recreation Vehicle Industry Association (RVIA)

Those blue portable tanks can be a hand full to dump depending on where you have to dump them. The smell can be deadly.

Holding tanks with a sealed sewer hose setup is the best way to go. Little or no smell or mess.

That's simply opinion. I have never seen in the published rules for any State or Federal Campground I am familiar with, which is more than a few, anything that references RVIA standards or the RVIA at all. The RVIA is a voluntary organization, there are RV manufacturers that do not even belong to RVIA. Are tent campers required to be self contained also.

OP, I have used and dumped a tote tank often. It's not the nightmare folks claim on these boards. Get a 4 wheel tote with a side mounted dump valve. You would not need separate totes for black and gray to do what you describe, you'll be dumping it down the same hole. No one is going to give you any flack or toss you from a campground for having a tote tank connected 24/7.

RVIA is merely the oversight body, the actual rules that must be adhered to are NFPA or ANSI standards. A quick look at any RVIA oval seal will show that it says that the seal is confirming the RV was built in compliance with NFPA XXX or some such standard.

RVIA certification is NOT mandatory, conforming to the standards IS mandatory.

As for campground rules, not seeing them, or they being enforced by unknowing (or uncaring) employees, does not mean they do not exist. Below is just one example of the many I’ve seen, at a park I frequent myself. A friend who did a similar rig, a converted cargo trailer, finally sold it because he was being refused a site so often.

Click here and see Rule # 24.4 in the middle of page 11.

It’s not just sewage either, fresh water plumbing, built in 120 volt wiring and / or propane appliances other than portables require certification to be legal also.

In lots of jurisdictions it’s also illegal to sell such a homemade rig unless it’s certified.

Jax,

You ARE forgetting that not "everyone" on this forum lives in CANADA.

Here in the USA we DO NOT HAVE TO FOLLOW CANADA'S RULES.

CANADA'S RULES DO NOT APPLY IN THE USA.

THERE IS ZERO RULES COVERING HOMEMADE CAMPERS PERIOD IN THE USA OTHER THAN FOLLOWING GOOD ELECTRICAL PRACTICE SET OUT BY THE NEC IF YOU WANT TO PLUG YOUR HOMEMADE RV INTO THE ELECTRIC GRID.

Only Canadians are bound by such overbearing archaic rules which only profit the local gov with permit fees and all of the special trades that charge enormous costly fees to do the work.

That means there is NO ELECTRICAL PERMITS OR INSPECTION REQUIRED

NO PLUMBING PERMITS OR INSPECTION REQUIRED (INCLUDING WATER AND PROPANE)

THERE IS NO BUILDING PERMITS OR INSPECTIONS REQUIRED.

For the USA the ONLY thing that does need to be taken into consideration is the DOT requirements for outside lighting and braking/tires safety items..

What is done inside doesn't matter.

That's it.

We ARE FREE to build our own RVs any way we want provided it meets ALL DOT specifications for ROAD WORTHINESS.

That means we can build a RV frame up from scratch, or rebuild an existing RV, or take a cargo trailer, flatbed trailer or heck even an old truck bed and put axles under it all without archaic rules.

The majority of campgrounds in the USA will not refuse or reject a homemade RV because it does not have the CANADIAN seal of approval or RVIA seal. Sure, there are some campgrounds catering to multi-million dollar RVs only but those are few.

According to you, my fully rebuilt RV is not acceptable in Canada because I didn't pay outlandinsh permits nor did I have special trades come in to rebuild it..

No, I fully rebuilt it myself, it hasn't caught fire, hasn't caused and accident, hasn't killed anyone and I haven't had any campground refuse it because it doesn't look factory, or it doesn't have any special seals plaster all over it.

[Deb_and_Ed_M]

JRscooby wrote:
Most popup trailers use a cassette toilet or porta-potty as a black tank. (if only restroom wife and I have 2 full days) Also they drain the sink and shower out thru a hose connector and into a jug or tank. I use laundry soap jug for the inside sink, and a 7 gallon jug for the outside sink where I do dishes. Last for 4 days unless it is Thanksgiving weekend.

^^^THIS^^^^

Our cargo van conversion has (2) portable 2-1/2 gallon tanks for the sink (one freshwater, one gray) and we use a "Luggable Loo" with a WAG bag and kitty litter. Look into any van conversion forum, and you'll see all kinds of options for not having storage tanks. www.faroutride.com would be a good start - they live in their Transit full-time and they are both engineers, so have documented their build in detail. What works for a cargo van will also apply to a trailer.

The nice thing is that it's possible to build an "RV" that doesn't need to be winterized - depending on where you live, that can be a huge bonus!