Yeah it's a tad cool here....

[BobsYourUncle]

So here I am in Calgary Alberta, doing my best to work max hours and
build stuff.....

Brilliant Bob brings the TT and figures, yeah, I'll save big time on motels and all that.

Well, the weather has other ideas and really, it is a bit on the chilly side here.

I'm in about ten bottles of propane at 35 bucks a pop. But I'm warm anyhow...

Except last night where it was minus 32C and my propane decides to sleep instead of flow, because I wasn't smart enough to listen to Don tell me to put a heating pad on the bottles, but I got through the lack of flow bringing the temperature down in the 50's in here at 3;22 AM when I woke up and decided that yep! It's too cold in here!

Wander out in my undies at said such time and switch the bottles to the full one and yeah it made a difference, got a little flow at minus 32C and got a little heat in this thing.

Furnace managed to catch up in a couple hours and warm the place up.

Meanwhile Bob gets no sleep cuz he thinks of the pipes freezing up with the furnace in relax mode.

So I got up at o dark thirty to get out and at 'em. Gads no, I want to sleep.

but it was warmer than the 54 degrees I remember at 3:22 AM.

TT warmed up a bit as I fed the furnace with a full bottle instead of the who knows how low it is bottle.

7AM, alarm goes off. Hey Bob, get up and go to work!! I reply something I can't print here....

Finally I drag my sorry butt out of bed and look at the thermometer. Minus 32. Oh awesome!

Screw that, fall back into bed. Yeah maybe later.

Can't sleep now, gotta go to work, it's getting warm in here now anyhow, So I get up and out the door.

Minus 32C. Gads man am I out of my mind?
evidently, yes.

Whats wrong with this picture??

[BobsYourUncle]

DiskDoctr,
Thanks you for your very informative and useful post.
Must have taken a while to write that - I appreciate it.

My tanks assuredly have the old original basic regulator. I know there is only one there and it feeds everything.

If the temperature stays warmer than -26C (-15F) then all seems to be well. I only had that one trip down to -32C for a day and since then it has been warmer than that.

I did buy a heating pad for emergency sake if it gets cold again.

The tester kit sounds like something nice to have on hand. I am the type of guy who never has enough tools! Always willing to buy more of them!

Don't think I have any leaks. I have a nose on me like a bloodhound and I can smell things from afar that most people can't smell up close. I would have noticed if I had a leak.

I definitely agree about pushing my system to the limits.

I am within about a week of heading home. They want me back to do more work but I'm undecided on that one. Working outside in January and February in Calgary doesn't exactly sound like a fun picnic!

I may come back, but only maybe.If I do I want to do some mods first. Tank heaters for one. I checked out a place someone gave me the link on Ultraheat. Did a quick calculation and I need about $750. to do that mod.
And gotta do something better with these windows. I have some foam stuck in some of them from the inside, but it was only a quick solution while I was here. I have some 4.5 mil tinted acrylic and want to make some inside storms that will go right on the frame itself.

Of course I could stay in a motel, but wheres the fun in that?

Thanks again for your help.

[DiskDoctr]

I didn't get a notice of your reply post, but saw it as I checked back to see how you were making out.

Glad to hear you are still...thawed out 🙂

A two-stage regulator has two separate 'pancakes' with each one reducing the pressure of the bottled gas. I don't recall what portions, but the first takes it down so far and the second takes it the rest of the way.

This allows a high pressure line to be routed over long distances and to some high flow appliances, which often have their own secondary regulators. There are some appliances that connect directly to high pressure lines without a regulator, but I don't know of any in an RV (think 'Industrial' equipent, some stoves, etc)

It has to do with flow rates and to some extent icing up of the regulator.

To understand the issue, think about an air conditioner. It compressed the refrigerant so it can be allowed to expand, which ABSORBS HEAT from the surroundings (usually air).

Your regulator is doing something very similar. A liquid is allowed to vaporize in the tank, then that gas expands as the pressure is reduced in the regulator.

Especially in cold weather, the regulator can freeze up, as well as the rate of vaporization of the liquid in the tank can be reduced. These are cumulative effects, and viola....no propane flow 😞

Lower levels of propane in the tank make this more likely. That's one reason the larger tanks are better in cold weather.

When we added a couple of ventless fireplaces in our house, our outoor regulator would occasionally ice up, especially when the tank was low. That is when I was told about the hot water trick- cold weather, power outage, NEEDED heat 😉

Some RV's run a high pressure line from the tank to certain places in the RV and then it is reduced at that point. I think this is more likely in a very large RV with big appliances, but I don't know the criteria for mfr's decisions, just mentioning it.

A high pressure regulator (or single, first stage) is usually RED.

If you use a two stage setup, you would likely have a RED regulator that attaches to the tank, a short piece of pipe (often comes preassembled), then a secondary regulator, then to your RV's supply lines.

Another item worth mentioning. Turn your flames up high on the stovetop and look at the flames. They should be BLUE, not yellow. A little yellow tip is okay, but if there is a lot of sputtering or yellow flames inside the blue, you can make improvements.

First, the quality of your propane is important. Most people never worry about it, but there is a company whose pitch is using HD5 propane, which they tout as high quality and lower consumption. I don't know how this plays out in practice, but maybe someone will chime in on this?

Second, There is often an air adjustment that can be tweaked.

Third, Make sure your gas tubes/orifice, air tubes, etc are cleaned of debris, rust, spider webs, dust, etc.

Fourth, Test your lines for leaks. You can use soap suds on your connections, take a look at your o-rings in your tank connectors, etc for leaks. Small leaks drain tanks.

Alternatively, you can purchase a propane pressure gauge/tester kit. It comes in a case with gauge, some hose, and a few adapters. You can connect it to a stove orifice (NOT LIT!) and turn on the burner valve. Wait a minute or so and record the pressure reading. (All appliances must be turned off).

Then turn off your outside tank and watch the gauge inside for a minute or three and make sure it doesn't drop after a possible initial, very minimal drop. If it drops, you have a leak somewhere.

I am suggesting these things for you, as you are pushing your system to its limits. Any of these items can have a significant impact on your situation and are worth testing.

Keep it turned up, so to speak 😉

A catalytic heater, like an Olympic Wave can be helpful and are more efficient than your furnace and very good at radiant heat (comforting) while using little propane. Just be sure to allow for proper ventilation.

Hope these things help.

[BobsYourUncle]

DiskDoctr wrote:
Maybe this will help.

1. Switching to 30lb tanks can help.

2. Are you running an auto-changeover regulator?

3. Are you running TWO-STAGE regulators? Single housing regulators tend to freeze up much more easily as it gets cold and with higher volume propane usage like a furnace.

4. Pouring a pan of hot water over a "forzen" regulator or tank can help get emergency flow going. Make sure you don't get water in the vent or on anything that shouldn't get wet, like a heating pad, etc.

5. A heated mattress pad can help keep you warm and isolate you from the cold mattress.

6. Use synthetic blankets and such to keep moisture off your body at night.

Wish I had better tips for you, that is REALLY COLD! Hang in there!

Thanks!

I have 2 - 30 pound tanks.

I do not have an auto changeover. I actually prefer not to have one because when I change it over, I know I have an empty tank to fill. If it is done for me,I don't know about it and could run dry. I always run one tank at a time for that purpose.

Don't know what a 2 stage regulator is. TT is a 97 and assuming regulator is original, it likely is a single stage.

I bought a heating pad for the tanks so if I get into that situation again, I can use the pad to warm the tanks. Rest of the time I will use it on my achy body! Haha!

I actually have a process before I go to bed. I cover the 2 heat vents in the living area, shut the one in the bathroom off, close the pleated curtain to the bedroom and let the furnace cycle for an hour or so before I go to bed. When I open the curtain to go to bed, it is nice and toasty in there. I have a really nice blanket that is very toasty warm, in addition to the sheet and comforter on top. I find I need to kick it off in the night because I get too warm sometimes, except when it is minus 30! I keep my thermostat set at about 71 or so in this weather. Not that I need it because I don't, but because it helps keep my pipes from freezing.

Yeah it has been cold and I am hanging in there. I really do love the adventure of it all.

Wish I could post pics from afar here. I have some of me driving in a blizzard, down the Trans Canada Highway. Pulled off to a rest stop of course. Snowing like mad, roads are greasy, I'm watching my speed, got the 4 wheel drive engaged, enjoying the journey.

And today was the first time ever that I ran everything going down the road. It was a 5 hour journey to my next work location so I wanted the TT to stay warm. Yup, I ran with the furnace going, HWT on and of course, the one that everyone debates to death here, the fridge.

I'm alive, my TT didn't explode, it was still 72 inside when I got here and my water flowed. All is well!

Ahhhhh, I love this lifestyle! 🙂

[DiskDoctr]

Maybe this will help.

1. Switching to 30lb tanks can help.

2. Are you running an auto-changeover regulator?

3. Are you running TWO-STAGE regulators? Single housing regulators tend to freeze up much more easily as it gets cold and with higher volume propane usage like a furnace.

4. Pouring a pan of hot water over a "forzen" regulator or tank can help get emergency flow going. Make sure you don't get water in the vent or on anything that shouldn't get wet, like a heating pad, etc.

5. A heated mattress pad can help keep you warm and isolate you from the cold mattress.

6. Use synthetic blankets and such to keep moisture off your body at night.

Wish I had better tips for you, that is REALLY COLD! Hang in there!

[BobsYourUncle]

96Bounder30E wrote:
If you think it's cold where you are at.........Look what us in Southern California are dealing with.........


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HDhmQuSLRg

Oh you poor folks - you must be frozen!!:B

If you want, c'mon up to Alberta and we'll get you fixed right up!

[Golden_HVAC]

96Bounder30E wrote:
If you think it's cold where you are at.........Look what us in Southern California are dealing with.........


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HDhmQuSLRg

Yea,

I like the quote "It would have snowed if it had been a few degrees cooler, but it has warmed up to 42 right now in Lancaster (CA)."

It was snowing in Portland Oregon Friday, however not enough moisture to stick. It has been in the 20's and 35 for a high today, but very sunny and clear at night to make it even cooler tomorrow. By Wednesday we should be back to normal and have some rain. The clouds hold in the daytime heat to keep us above freezing.

Fred.

[96Bounder30E]

If you think it's cold where you are at.........Look what us in Southern California are dealing with.........


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HDhmQuSLRg

[Jarlaxle]

How is heat (cold) transfer through the floor? If it's bad...consider spraying foam insulation underneath. Bonus: it's really cheap! (As in: <$100.)

[TYSPapa]

BobsYourUncle wrote:

TYSPapa wrote:
Good thing you were'nt 2 hours east of Calgary yesterday morning where it was -46 with a wind chill of -54. That was cool and not in a good way

Egads man! Where was that? I'm heading to the Hat later today or tomorrow.

That was in Brooks which is 70 miles west of Med. Hat.
It is currently -16 and supposed to go up to -7 tomorrow so you shouldn't be too bad off.

[BobsYourUncle]

Don, yes the fan would likely keep enough warm air in the ductwork to keep the fresh water feed flowing.

I'm not sure how much I want to do to this trailer. I would like to upgrade it to something at least ten years newer, but with enclosed tanks and better windows. These single glazed things are awful in the cold. I have some of them covered with foam board but not all of them. Double glazed windows would be nice.

What would be even nicer would be thermally broken windows. I don't know if they even make such a thing for RV's. I did some research but found nothing. The cold transfer through these windows is huge.

[BobsYourUncle]

TYSPapa wrote:
Good thing you were'nt 2 hours east of Calgary yesterday morning where it was -46 with a wind chill of -54. That was cool and not in a good way

Egads man! Where was that? I'm heading to the Hat later today or tomorrow.

[pianotuna]

Hi Bob,

I can usually find two 15 amp circuits at more modern homes. I do carry a LOT of cord however. I, too, often do not have access to the breaker panel.

I do carry a "current tap" and use that to draw some power from the door lights that most homes have. I limit it to 800 watts, and consider it a "last resort".

I use an efergy watt meter to monitor how much I am drawing--and a kill-a-watt to see what is happening to the voltage.

If you did heat 100% electrically you would have to replace the return air grill on the furnace with a fan, or it will freeze up.

On my rv that circulates warm "living space" air under the cabinets and pushes some air along the furnace duct work. I chose to use a dual window fan unit which is controlled by a mechanical thermostat that lives beside the water pump next to the outside wall of the RV.

The fan unit draws just 23 watts and works better than a 1500 watt fan based heater which I tried using inside the cabinet.

[BobsYourUncle]

Golden_HVAC wrote:
Bob,

Considering that you are plugged into the HOST electricity, I would be running a couple of 120 volt heaters, electric blanket, and other heaters.

Like one on 800 watts near the fresh water tank and pump. It will at least keep the fresh water tank over 55F. That will lead to warmer showers.

800 watt heater (normal one on low heat setting) near where your water lines froze, such as under the kitchen sink.

Electric blankets are only about 35 - 45 watts.

You probably will need to run one 120 volt cord for each pair of heaters on low heat.

Fred.

Thats a great thought Fred, but the challenge is with the host electric is that I am lucky to have the one 15A circuit. And I have no idea how much load the customer already has on it. If I run a 1500 watt heater in addition to my converter, a light bulb in the fridge compartment, a heat tape on my dump plumbing, I will most likely trip the breaker.

Right now I am plugged into the shop I am working out of. One 15A plug but I am running my heater at 1500W. I have a key to the place and they showed me where the panel is in case I trip the breaker.

Heading to another city either later today of tomorrow. I have to park in the street in front of the house and run a cord out from the garage. Hmm. It will be a 15A plug there too

[BobsYourUncle]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi Bob,

You may want to check out my thread on heating 100% electrically.

heating electrically a "back yard" report

I'm glad it is warming up for you. Heading for -31 here tonight.

Good post Don. Thanks for sharing.

I do have one advantage with my furnace. My fresh water tank is under the sofa, backed up to my front bedroom. The HWT, furnace and pump are located at the very back, under the bunk, beside the bathroom. It appears that the water feed from the tank to the pump runs in or close to the furnace duct run. When I turn on the cold in the bathroom to brush my teeth, the water is not very cold, indicating the heat ducts warm it on the way back. And as long as the furnace and HWT are on, my pump won't freeze because its nice and warm in there.

I am wondering if it would freeze up if I ran only electric heat. Likely would.

If I could have access to more electric, I would certainly utilize it. But because I move from site to site, I am lucky to get only one 15A circuit, which I can only usually run one electric heater at 750 watts, for fear of tripping the breaker in the customers house.

I brought my Honda 2000 genny but only for emergency. I have not been using it. Might be hard to start in this weather anyhow.