Coconut oil for dog's skin?

[Crowe]

SIL swears by coconut oil for dog's skin and coat. Says it fights yeast infections and makes their coats soft and shiny. She mixes it with their food. Thoughts?

[Crowe]

Tongue firmly in cheek: I guess I wasted 4 years in college, 4 more years in vet school and 37 years in practice when all that was needed to have a happy, healthy long lived animal was to feed raw and don't vaccinate.

Thank you Dr. Doug! I'm no vet, but I ain't stupid either nor am I easily bullied. So, on that note, the mods should feel free to close this thread. Points made, understood, and thread has lost it's usefulness.

[Pawz4me]

I'm not anti-raw diet. But I've been around long enough (and had enough dogs of my own and fostered and been friends with a lot more) to know that it's far from a miracle cure. And I remember a few dogs whose condition was worsened by a switch to a raw diet.

My own highly allergic dog was helped immensely by desensitization shots (immunotherapy). He went from an itchy, infected mess who tested allergic to 37 things to a dog who exhibits no symptoms of allergies at all.

[dturm]

I'm not going to get into a philosophical argument when your position is obviously so entrenched. If you can give evidence more than anecdotal with your dog(s) or a friends dog or an internet web site, please have at it.

It's just that real world situations are not as black and white and not as easily solved as you suggest.

BTW, 3 year vaccination protocols have been the accepted standard of care in dogs and cats for over 10 years now, so your argument isn't supported (at least in many practices).

Tongue firmly in cheek: I guess I wasted 4 years in college, 4 more years in vet school and 37 years in practice when all that was needed to have a happy, healthy long lived animal was to feed raw and don't vaccinate.

Doug, DVM

[HeyJude]

dturm wrote:
Just a quick note.

Lance Armstrong's steroids were Anabolic Steroids not what we're talking about (glucocorticoids)and has no bearing on this discussion.

While inappropriate use of glucocorticoids can and do cause problems, in 37 years of practice in NEVER encountered a single case of long term problems with a single or two steroid treatments for seasonal allergy (two to four months), even given over the lifetime of the animal. I'm not saying it can't happen, but the threat and risk vs rewards needs to realistically evaluated.

There are many different approaches to deal with these problems, anyone who has had an animal that is literally tearing themselves apart sees the need for immediate relief. The other approaches may be a good idea for long term control, but there isn't too much better for immediate relief.

Doug, DVM

Giving the time you are in practice I will assume you are my age. In the last 10 years the allergy problem in pets has been much worse. Let's just say that these dogs are younger, 5-7 years. Theses dogs are on the newer yearly vaccination protocol, and are fed cheap or Chinese ingredient foods. If their immune systems are already comprimised then there isn't much you can do for them other than put them on an all natural diet, stop anymore vaccinating (use titers) and give them steroids. But, if you have a young dog that has already been minimally vaccinated and you stop all vaccinations and feed a raw diet, then that dog will not be difficult to cure of allergies and disease. My GSD was 18 months, had all his vaccinations and had cannon butt diarrhea for 5 months. He weighed half of his optimal weight and lost most of his coat. My vet was stymied. His cure was antibiotics and steroids, didn't work. I also had a 14y/o poodle that had daily seizures. After switching to raw his stool firmed up within two weeks, his hair grew back and he has been healthy since. My old Hannah's seizures stopped after about a month ( something we never expected) and she lived to be 16. I think if she were fed raw from a pup she would have lived much longer. The only time I visit my vet is for heartworm tests. My vet is very pleased at how beautiful and healthy Harley is, but still wants to give him vaccinations. I have a 1 y/o yorkie that is fed raw and gets Blue if he wants. He has had his core vaccines and rabies, he will get no more. So, we will see how well my minimally vaccinated, raw fed dogs do compared to kibble fed, over vaccinated dogs do?

[dturm]

Just a quick note.

Lance Armstrong's steroids were Anabolic Steroids not what we're talking about (glucocorticoids)and has no bearing on this discussion.

While inappropriate use of glucocorticoids can and do cause problems, in 37 years of practice in NEVER encountered a single case of long term problems with a single or two steroid treatments for seasonal allergy (two to four months), even given over the lifetime of the animal. I'm not saying it can't happen, but the threat and risk vs rewards needs to realistically evaluated.

There are many different approaches to deal with these problems, anyone who has had an animal that is literally tearing themselves apart sees the need for immediate relief. The other approaches may be a good idea for long term control, but there isn't too much better for immediate relief.

Doug, DVM

[Code2High]

The problem is not that steroids don't work. They work like magic. Ask Lance Armstrong! It's that they work at a cost that you may not see for months or years, and then it's too late to fix it. And the more that are needed and the more time they are used, the higher the risks. Judy (CAPoppy) can tell you a bit about that issue. So it is not something that's great to have to be doing for several months out of the year. And allergies untreated do often get worse with repeated exposure, so next summer could be worse yet.

Your experience illustrates that the same two dogs won't necessarily thrive on the same diet. Similarly, some dogs may tolerate a diet of poor quality kibble all their lives, and others may not. Some may do well on raw or kibble and others only on one or the other. It's something to consider.

Having gotten a dog off of daily meds (at a hundred bucks a month and not something I really wanted him taking that much of) after a three year struggle with demodex, I became a firm believer in raw food. Yes, it is more work, but not more work than constant medicating, dipping/dosing/washing/worrying/running to the vet with the dog or to pick up meds.

Acupuncturists can dial down an allergic response, if you have one available to treat a dog where you are.

Homeopathics can work really well if you get the right one, but you'd need to consult with a trained homeopath for a case like this.

[Crowe]

We stopped vaccinating our bloodhound when he almost bled out after too many shots at once. Steroids saved him. Our vet staggers them now and we have the option of the titer testing if we desire. Genesis, which is a cortisoid, worked very well but has a limited duration. He's shown vast improvement on the steroids but is still reacting to whatever contact allergen it is. He only does this during pollen season-never an issue over most of the fall, winter, and early spring. Otherwise, he's healthy, happy, energetic and has no issues. Our other Springer, same diet, has no issues. Similar breeding (Jake's dad and Jesse's mom are brother and sister) but only issues with Jesse.

[HeyJude]

Crowe wrote:
But, giving steroids and getting vaccinations at the same time does not make for healthy dogs.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. It's not black and white and one way isn't necessarily better than the other. Unfortunately you appear to have adopted the raw diet extremist's attitude that it's the only way. And in many cases that may be true. My coonhound that lived to be 13 ate cheap, crappy food (corn-based which was all he would eat), got regular vaccines and preventive medicine for things like heartworm, and never went to the vet other than for regular checkups. For every raw diet miracle someone can come up with there's a matching old-school success story.

Not the extemest way, but my way saved my GSD dog. I didn't plan NOT giving vaccinations until my GSD had such a bad reaction to his rabies that I had enough. My yorkie has had his core shots and I will have titters done till he shows no immunity, then he will get whatever vaccine he needs. I know by experience (dog groomer and breeder for 37 years) looking at the same problems. The vets all throw steroids (my vet did the same) and vaccinations at the same time at these poor dogs and they never get well. Dogs are carnivores, they don't have the teeth nor the stomach to eat and process grains. We cook all the nutrients out of dog food that isn't good to start with. Just makes sense to me to feed a carnivore raw.

[Code2High]

Raw feeding won't solve every problem for every dog, but I have seen miracles out of it. It would certainly be worth a try in my book.

[Crowe]

But, giving steroids and getting vaccinations at the same time does not make for healthy dogs.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. It's not black and white and one way isn't necessarily better than the other. Unfortunately you appear to have adopted the raw diet extremist's attitude that it's the only way. And in many cases that may be true. My coonhound that lived to be 13 ate cheap, crappy food (corn-based which was all he would eat), got regular vaccines and preventive medicine for things like heartworm, and never went to the vet other than for regular checkups. For every raw diet miracle someone can come up with there's a matching old-school success story.

[HeyJude]

There are so many things that contribute to allergies. Diet, over vaccination, chemicals used in the home. My dogs had their main vaccinations as puppies, but no more. I don't use chemicals in my home, and it feed a good raw diet. All of these things lead to healthy pets. But, giving steroids and getting vaccinations at the same time does not make for healthy dogs.

[Crowe]

Not sure if I should butt in, but raw feeding will get rid of all these problems and you won't have to give all these meds.

Not necessarily. As stated above not a cure-all. I have talked to 2 vets and multiple breeders about a raw diet and although it can go a long way with certain allergies, it does not always help with airborne/contact allergens.

[Tin-bender]

Hey Jude,
Raw feeding is not the ultimate answer. Now before you get in a huff please understand I have been feeding raw diet to my dogs for almost 20 years. It has worked some real miracles with several of our dogs through the years. We currently have a GSD with food as well as topical allergies raw has helped with the feed allergies but has had little effect in controlling the topical problems.
Tinbender

[HeyJude]

Crowe wrote:
Has he been confirmed to have a yeast issue?

Yes, minor. He's already on clyndamicin and Temaril P (may have the exact spelling wrong, steroid w/antihistamine) so I'm trying to avoid a 3rd med. The combo of these two is working very well and is much less expensive than Atopica.

Not sure if I should butt in, but raw feeding will get rid of all these problems and you won't have to give all these meds. I've had my GSD on Raw for just over a year and I haven't had him back to a vet yet.