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Dog breed descrimination - showing up late un-announced

MartyW
Explorer
Explorer
Hi to all,

We've been camping with our German Shepherd dog for over 30 years (of course different shepherds along the way and always one at a time). We had always stayed in public / state parks in the past so we were not aware of the breed descrimination issues until we boutht a 34' TT last summer with the hope of doing some extended stay trips during semi-retirement.

We're scheduled to get on the road within the next few weeks and I've worked out some good routes and stops using the many mobil apps and internet, but in the process we've had quite a few CGs tell us that we can't stay with our shepherd. We're speaking mostly of FL for now. I've also heard that in many cases the breed restrictions aren't always inforced, but we haven't tested anyone or any CG on this.

So my question is if we're on a trip and can't make it that day to our planned CG that has accepted our dog in advance, and we pop in un-announced at a CG that has an anti-Shepherd policy (in late afternoon / evening), has anyone seen any of these restrictive CGs allow one of the banned breeds for just a one night overnight stay? We haven't tried this yet but we've been told that it does work in some cases.

Many thanks in advance for your experiences about this.
Marty
94 REPLIES 94

magnusfide
Explorer II
Explorer II
Old-Biscuit wrote:
IF a CG has a 'Bred Restriction' it is in place due to Ins. Policy.

If CG allows a dog on that list to stay on property they are jeopardizing there insurance coverage.....and taking a huge risk. Liability-----could cost them Ins. Coverage/higher premiums. They would be 'hanging out' should something happen.

We ... ran into breed restrictions/weight-size restrictions at many CGs. They were always enforced.

Double Ditto. In our 40+ years of camping, this cg policy stip has been appearing for at least 10 years due to insurance requirements. Frustrating but it is what it is.
"The only time you should fear cast iron is if your wife is fixin' to hit you with it."-Kent Rollins
First law of science: don't spit into the wind.

Magnus

westernrvparkow
Explorer
Explorer
Deb and Ed M wrote:
I'm just wondering here, but if your dog has a "Good Canine Citizen" certificate, I wonder if they'd change their mind?
It would have an effect exactly like the effect buying a
"Therapy Dog" vest off the internet would have, none.

MartyW
Explorer
Explorer
Many thanks to all for your responses, experiences and insights.

After lots of looking at our mobile apps and making phone calls, we do already have four CGs set up for stays during our upcoming trip to mid-south FL. We have the plan set to drive 3 - 3.5 hours per day, so counting rest stops that puts us at right around 4 hours on the road per day. Once we get to our destinatin in FL we have a month's stay paid for in a putlic/county park. So our plan is to check weather and other news carefully each morning and if its gonna be a bad day for traveling then we'll just stay an extra day at our on-the-road CG stops.

Once we're set up in FL for a month or two stay that will be the time to re-visit the generator issue and try to cipher out whether a MH is needed or if the TT could suffice.

The breed restriction thing is a real bummer for us to find at this later stage of our camping. We've never had the slightest issue with any of our GSDs doing anything that could be considered a problem. Now, if someone were to break into our camper while we weren't there but the dog was, then that might be an issue for the breaker-inner. But I agree with the others who have said that the CG owners have the right to dictate what goes on in their CG.

Thanks again to all and happy travels.

westernrvparkow
Explorer
Explorer
dturm wrote:
This is a topic that is a sore subject for me. I understand that about 1/3 of the homeowners insurance claims involve dog bites, and insurance companies in an attempt to mitigate potential damages have instituted these bans, as have several municipalities and businesses.

I'd like to see statistics that prove that these breed bans actually work. There are about as many municipalities dumping their breed bans as new ones being made.

This is a summary of the reasons that dogs bite published by the AVMA
A dog's tendency to bite depends on at least six interacting factors: heredity, early experience, socialization and training, physical and behavioral health, victim behavior, and environment. Breed-specific approaches ignore five of the six and are not likely to result in effective injury control. Banning specific breeds may give owners of other breeds a false sense of security and decrease their desire to seek appropriate socialization and training for their pets.


As a practicing veterinarian for 37 years, I'd rather deal with a stable well trained doberman, GS, pit bull, etc. than MANY other untrained, poorly socialized, poorly bred individuals of (fill in the breed).

The reality is that breed restrictions exist in campgrounds and are enforced, but there are many "more enlightened" campground businesses that realize that a huge number of RVers have dogs and set policies to make it safe and reasonable for all of us.

Doug, DVM
While all that is true, there is no way for any business (including yours) to pre-determine whether or not a dog arriving is a stable, well trained dog, or a poorly socialized, untrained one.
While you would rather deal with a well trained Doberman or Pit Bull, I would also like to point out you would much rather be attacked by a Lab or a Poodle than attacked by a Doberman or Pit Bull. The damage that can be inflicted by the breeds most often targeted for breed exclusions is much more serious than can be inflicted by the vast majority of dogs.
There are multiple reasons for breed bans in RV parks. While insurance is the most obvious, and the most significant. If the insurer requires certain breeds to be excluded from the premises and a dog of that breed is allowed in and injury occurs, the insurance company will NOT PAY ANYTHING. All medical claims, injury claims, etc will have to be paid out of the owners pocket. A severe attack would surely put most parks into bankruptcy.
A more subtle, but significant, reason for breed bans is the effect certain dogs have on other guests. Several years ago, I had a lady come in and request to leave early and be refunded her monies. Her reason was she couldn't leave the confines of her RV because the neighbor often sat outside with their two Rottweilers. The dogs were leashed, were very well behaved, but this lady was absolutely terrified of them. While this reaction is extreme and rare, many people do have fear of certain breeds. People do alter they behaviors when certain breeds of dogs are around. They change they walking patterns. They tell their children not to go anywhere near that area, and of most concern to a park owner, often call the office and complain, forcing us to get involved. After a while, it just becomes easier to take the path of least resistance. If there are no pit bulls in the park, there will be no frantic calls to the office telling us that site # so and so has a pit bull in their site and asking what are we going to do about it.
In answer to the question the OP posed, we do not permit a late arriving guest to do anything we would not allow a guest who made a reservation in advance do. If we had breed restrictions, the late arriving walk in would have to follow the same rules as everyone else.

dturm
Moderator
Moderator
This is a topic that is a sore subject for me. I understand that about 1/3 of the homeowners insurance claims involve dog bites, and insurance companies in an attempt to mitigate potential damages have instituted these bans, as have several municipalities and businesses.

I'd like to see statistics that prove that these breed bans actually work. There are about as many municipalities dumping their breed bans as new ones being made.

This is a summary of the reasons that dogs bite published by the AVMA
A dog's tendency to bite depends on at least six interacting factors: heredity, early experience, socialization and training, physical and behavioral health, victim behavior, and environment. Breed-specific approaches ignore five of the six and are not likely to result in effective injury control. Banning specific breeds may give owners of other breeds a false sense of security and decrease their desire to seek appropriate socialization and training for their pets.


As a practicing veterinarian for 37 years, I'd rather deal with a stable well trained doberman, GS, pit bull, etc. than MANY other untrained, poorly socialized, poorly bred individuals of (fill in the breed).

The reality is that breed restrictions exist in campgrounds and are enforced, but there are many "more enlightened" campground businesses that realize that a huge number of RVers have dogs and set policies to make it safe and reasonable for all of us.

Doug, DVM
Doug & Sandy
Kaylee
Winnie 6 1/2 year old golden
2008 Southwind 2009 Honda CRV

valhalla360
Nomad III
Nomad III
I had GS as a kid. Well trained, they are great pets and well behaved.

The problem is the parks have no clue if your's is well behaved or a monster. From a liability perspective, a frenzied chihuahua is unlikely to do serious damage. A quick nip from a GS or a rottwieler can do seriuos damage. Based on the claims, insurance companies know the big payouts come from these breeds and react accordingly.

If it's a service animal, you should be stating up front that it is a medically neccessary service animal. Don't make the staff puzzle out what is going on and then get mad at them when you failed to make the situation clear up front.

As far as just showing up late and hoping they overlook it, that's rude. Most likely it's a low level employee manning the desk late in the evening and you are putting them into a difficult situation. They want to help someone in a difficult situation but it's against the rules. When the owner finds out, your risk is limited to being asked to leave, they may lose thier job. Have multiple backups planned or stay at a rest area or walmart if you can't find a park that accepts your dog.
Tammy & Mike
Ford F250 V10
2021 Gray Wolf
Gemini Catamaran 34'
Full Time spliting time between boat and RV

Deb_and_Ed_M
Explorer II
Explorer II
I'm just wondering here, but if your dog has a "Good Canine Citizen" certificate, I wonder if they'd change their mind?
Ed, Deb, and 2 dogs
Looking for a small Class C!

gbopp
Explorer
Explorer
The insurance company for my S&B asks about specific breeds. They will charge more for certain dogs, or refuse to insure.

I feel for the OP but, I also understand the CG's are running a business.
I'm betting 99% (or more) of the 'banned' breeds are not a problem.

tsetsaf
Explorer III
Explorer III
Yep insurance companies have become very strict on breeds. It is based on two factors the percentage of bites and severity. Interesting stat is that labradors have the highest sheer number of bites but their bites are primarily minor. Compare that to the banned dogs and you have a much lower number of bites but when they happen it is severe.
2006 Ram 3500
2014 Open Range
"I don't trust my own advise!"

Go_Dogs
Explorer
Explorer
We have traveled with up to 3 dogs on the 'list'. Always check the CG's policies regarding pets, before you arrive. There has been a lot of controversy over 'service' dogs. People have no trouble getting their dog/pony/pig, etc. issued a service dog certification. I have never had a problem in state parks. Ohio is very pet-friendly.

Crowe
Explorer
Explorer
Breed & size discrimination is a property choice, in my experience, not an insurance liability requirement.

I'd say you are lucky enough to be an exception and not the rule. I can't speak for commercial insurance but I can for homeowners. We just redid our policy with a new company and they wanted to know what breed we had, specifically to find out if this was one of their banned breeds. I actually witnessed a cg actually show someone their insurance policy for proof of the liability. Regardless of reason it's the cg's right to do so (and no, I don't agree with blanket breed bans).

Marty, thank you for being respectful of the rules. It's people such as you that will help the rest of us retain the ability to camp with our dogs.

I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be

Douglas Adams

[purple]RV-less for now but our spirits are still on the open road. [/purple]

byrdr1
Explorer
Explorer
Nothing to add as I have the little dogs.
BUT We do have a friend who has a GS and she is most mild manner dog I have come across. She was a working & now retired LEO\Military dog who has a bad case of PTSD. BUT with me she is always mild and even tempered. She is deathly afraid of thunder storms and things like that. She likes my two dogs and is very patient with them.
So I feel your pain. but just remember its their campground they makes the rules but always check ahead of time.

2014 F-350 SRW CC/LWB 4X4 6.7PSD


2011 Keystone Cougar 327RES
Happy Campin'
Randy
Piedmont area of NC

DOTLDaddy
Nomad
Nomad
MartyW wrote:
....has anyone seen any of these restrictive CGs allow one of the banned breeds for just a one night overnight stay?....

Yes, we had that experience a couple of years ago at a private CG in Hattiesburg, MS.

When I made our reservation on the phone, several weeks in advance, I was not even asked if I had dogs, and I didn't think to bring it up. I had never had a problem with our dog(s) in the twenty years we have been RVing. Anyway, we show up after a hard day of driving. The office person asks me if I have any dogs, and if so, what breed? I told her yes, we have two GSD's. She said I couldn't stay. I got very "upset" with her, and pleaded my case. :M

She did relent, under the stipulation that we absolutely do not leave our immediate campsite with the dogs, and that we leave first thing in the morning. On the second point, we were happy to accommodate, as that was our plan anyway.

Walter & Garland - Camp Canine caretakers
Miss Inga (aka "Shorty") - 10 y.o. old GSD.
Gen. Gretchen - Joined Rainbow Div., June 27, 2017 at age 13
Gen. Missy - Joined Rainbow Div., June 11,2006 at age 12
2018 Montana HC305RL 5th wheel
2018 Silverado HD 6.0L

colliehauler
Explorer III
Explorer III
MartyW wrote:
Thanks Old-Biscuit, your response is exactly what I expected. I had read that it is a liability insurance issue. My wife and I are now considering replacing the TT with a class A MH and someone responded in the class A forum that the breed rules weren't enforced but that is contrary to my findings. At our ages I now believe we need an inside crank generator for Air Conditioning at rest stops or truck stops since we will be traveling in the summer heat. Many thanks for your response
You can buy a portable generator you can keep in the truck. Another option is some TT's can be ordered with built in generators.

You can look up the campground in advance to see if they had breed or large dog restrictions. There are a lot of state parks and campgrounds that don't have breed restrictions.

sharibartling
Explorer
Explorer
I know exactly how you feel. I have a GS due to something very personal that happened to me several years ago I bought (for lack of better word I say bought) a GS Dog. Had extensive training and he's the best mannered and best trained pal I have ever had. Last year we booked for a whole month stay at a place in Vancouver Washington. I booked it 9 months in advance, told the lady on the line he wa a GS with extensive training, he is a service dog. She said well, that should be ok... Drive 1400 miles, tired, get here and the manager say"nope" you're not staying" I was beyond upset.. anyway, I told him your staff should NOT say it's ok if it isn't, then he said well, if he's a service dog you can stay. But I was already mad! He is a service dog but I did not bring my prescription.... I'll tell you though, don't tell me I have an aggressive breed when a lot of time people are walking their little 5 # pipsqueek running out screaming at you. There's your aggressive breed