Bad Ground Stumper

[gijoecam]

Our 2004 Jayco JayFeather 29Y has a wiring issue that I can't seem to figure out. I'm pretty sure I've got the problem pinned down to a bad ground, but I can't figure out WHERE that ground connection is to save my life!

The back-story: Everything was fine on our last trip of the season in October. Due to a job change and a couple of non-camping trips early this season, I finally got around to de-winterizing it on the 4th of July. When I connected the truck, most of the lights worked fine, but the upper set of marker lights was out. That includes two amber markers on the front, two red markers at the top of the rear, and the center gang of three at the rear. I was able to locate the point at which the two circuits split (i.e. the upper lights and the lower lights) and isolate the two halves of the circuit. Then I checked for continuity between the suspect circuits origin and the sockets to verify that I had the proper circuit (I did). The thing that had me stumped for a bit this mornin was that I was reading 12V between BOTH of the pins on each of those light sockets, but then it dawned on me that they must all share a common ground (which has failed).

So the million dollar question appears to be: Where the heck is that ground located? I pulled two of the housings (one front, one rear) and all I can see is that there are a pair of black wires on both, and they disappear into the foam wall sandwich. The walls are all fiberglass, so they require a separate ground wire that must terminate somewhere, but I have no clue where that ground would be.

Oh, and I checked the grounds at the main junction box as well... No luck. There are three white wires on a lug that is screwed to the frame, and a single solid wire to ground the junction box itself, but no indication that any of them are the return from the running light circuit. I cleaned them anyways just to be sure, but no luck there. If I could find one near a wall chase that goes down through the floor, I'd just fish a new wire and make a new ground path, but I don't even know where to begin there...

I hate to admit it, but I may be beaten on this one... I may have to suck it up and find a Jayco dealer with some knowledgable techs.

Any ideas?

[MPD56]

Interesting problem, you’re so close. I went on a Jayco tour and saw a model like mine being built; I watched and asked a lot of questions.
My guess is?
The ground wire going up, goes to one upper light and is daisy chained from there. I can only assume that the wire isn’t broken and it is the first connection. On my Jayco it is accessible (I think yours might be too). I might suggest that you remove one of the upper lights so that you can get at the wire and hook up a temporary good ground, this could confirm that all the grounds to the upper light circuits are good. This might give you another choice to ground the lights from another light if the one in the back is not accessible?

Good Luck

Added: a wire tracer is great idea,

[CA_Traveler]

Buy a wire tracer for about $35 and trace the wiring to be sure.

[gijoecam]

Slight update, but no good news... I am confident I found the wires going up to and back down from the upper marker lights. (Pics to follow later) two green wires and two grounds come from the front of the trailer back to the cavity behind the load center, turn and go through the floor, where they split. One pair continues rearward (presumably to the rear taillights) and one pair turns and goes back up the same hole in the floor, up behind the fridge, through the outside fridge access compartment (with a whole bundle of wires), and into a roof chase, presumably to power the upper markers.

bad news: I can't access that Chase from inside the camper, I can't get to it from outside the camper without scraping the Dicor sealant off the fridge vent grate, and the break in the ground white is somewhere above the fridge access panel. 😞

is a *slight* possibility that I *might* be able to fish a second ground from the rear left taillight to the rear upper marker light. There is a cavity behind thetub wall that houses the power cord inlet and the storage tube for the stinky slinky. But it's more than I want to undertake on a Sunday afternoon with rain on the way.

ll try and get the pics up later this evening. I think I want to watch our next camper being built start to finish just to avoid these hunts. 🙂

[gijoecam]

Slight update, but no good news... I am confident I found the wires going up to and back down from the upper marker lights. (Pics to follow later) two green wires and two grounds come from the front of the trailer back to the cavity behind the load center, turn and go through the floor, where they split. One pair continues rearward (presumably to the rear taillights) and one pair turns and goes back up the same hole in the floor, up behind the fridge, through the outside fridge access compartment (with a whole bundle of wires), and into a roof chase, presumably to power the upper markers.

bad news: I can't access that Chase from inside the camper, I can't get to it from outside the camper without scraping the Dicor sealant off the fridge vent grate, and the break in the ground white is somewhere above the fridge access panel. 😞

is a *slight* possibility that I *might* be able to fish a second ground from the rear left taillight to the rear upper marker light. There is a cavity behind thetub wall that houses the power cord inlet and the storage tube for the stinky slinky. But it's more than I want to undertake on a Sunday afternoon with rain on the way.

ll try and get the pics up later this evening. I think I want to watch our next camper being built start to finish just to avoid these hunts. 🙂

[BFL13]

I don't know if any of them are for the running lights etc but as others mentioned, on ours, if you pull out the power centre metal box from under the fridge onto the floor a ways, you can see behind it.

There are a couple of clumps (joined with giant wire nuts) of white wires of various gauges that seem to be "just there" that are the grounds for all sorts of things.

(I had trouble one time with the ground for the Winegard and it was one of those.) PITA . You stand a good chance of losing the ground on something else while fixing the first thing when putting the clumps back together with the giant wire nuts, so you have to confirm everything works after that, not just what you fixed. 🙂

[gijoecam]

I would suspect that the Bargman connector was the issue if none of the marker lights were working, but that's not the case. The lower marker lights work, but the upper lights are out.

There is a junction box at the frame/tongue where the green wire for the parking lights coming from the connector also connects to two green wires that feed the marker lights. One of the two feeds the upper clearance lights, the other feeds the lower markers and running lights. I positively confirmed this yesterday.

fact that both terminals on the upper markers show 12v to a good ground and no voltage potential between each other is indicative of a bad ground for that whole leg. It's that ground I can't find (yet).

Also, when the gfci was tripped, it hasn't trained in a few days and I hadn't washed out yet. It did... rain later in the day, but not all that much.

[BFL13]

Not a clue, but here are some stray thoughts:

I thought the ground for the clearance lights was with the rest of the 7-pin collection, not the trailer's frame. ??? With a long time since use, I'd suspect the 7-pin connection between trailer and truck where sometimes you can wiggle them and now they work. Other times it is the ground on the truck that has failed.

The trailer frame is ground for the 12v side and the 120v side.

The GFCI problem might be from washing the trailer now that you want to use it to go camping and water got in the outside receptacle.

[Carvin_Marvin]

You have probably looked, and may not be applicable, but my motor home has multiple grounds along the frame rails. I suspect trailers may also. JMHO Good Luck Marv

[eric1514]

gijoecam wrote:
I just thought of something... I thought it was unrelated and forgot about it, but now i'm wondering.

I noticed that the gfci in the bathroom was tripped and would not reset. It's got me thinking they could possibly be related...

I don't think it will reset until you apply 120v to it. Sounds unrelated.

Eric

[gijoecam]

I just thought of something... I thought it was unrelated and forgot about it, but now i'm wondering.

I noticed that the gfci in the bathroom was tripped and would not reset. It's got me thinking they could possibly be related...

[gijoecam]

YC 1 wrote:
Can you just run a new one?

If you can find someone with a fox and hound you may be able to put a tone on the wire and trace it.

If could run a new one, I absolutely would. But with fiberglass sides, the foam is bonded to the walls, so there are no obvious wire chases in the wall adjacent to the lights. The wires won't even pull out more than an inch. But if I could fish a wire to one of them, I certainly would.

[YC_1]

Can you just run a new one?

If you can find someone with a fox and hound you may be able to put a tone on the wire and trace it.

[gijoecam]

newman fulltimer wrote:
i have seen them put the running light on a interior ground curcuit check the converter grounds

I hadn't thought of the converter, but it is a good possibility as the converter is under the fridge, and the fridge cabinet provides a nice open spot to run wires from flour to ceiling. Thinking about it, that's where the lighting, air conditioner, and charging circuits all come together anyways.


I think you're on to something... I'll check it out!

[midnightsadie]

start at the battery ground to the frame.

[newman_fulltime]

i have seen them put the running light on a interior ground curcuit check the converter grounds