GFI Problem

[notruffinit]

I am trying to figure this problem out and don't quite know where to look next. When I plug in to a campground outlet that is GFCI protected, as soon as my surge guard kicks in the GFI protector on the post or otherwise protected outlet will trip. I have no problems in the coach or with any of the protected circuits in it. The voltage leak has to be on the coach side of the surge guard. Where do I start to look?

[Canadian_Rainbi]

DryCamper11 wrote:

Canadian Rainbirds wrote:
here is what happens in our rig when plugged into ANY GFCI.

Plug the rig into GFCI outlet (mains) when the breakers to the two GFCI protected circuits in the rig are on, the mains GFCI trips. Unplug from mains, turn off the two house breakers, plug in the mains GFCI, and all is well. Drove me nuts until I found this out.

If I read this correctly, the pedestal (mains) GFCI trips whenever your RV GFCI breakers are on, but the RV GFCI doesn't trip when you plug into non-GFCI protected power.

It's possible for two GFCIs installed in series to to interact, although its relatively uncommon. You might try replacing the RV GFCIs to check this.

It's possible you've got problem that's not sufficient to trip the RV breakers, but does trip the pedestal/mains. You could try temporarily replacing the RV GFCI with a normal breaker. If the pedestal still trips, you have problem on that circuit that the RV GFCI can't see.


It's possible you have one of the less common situations where turning off the breaker after the GFCI prevents the GFCI from tripping, although, I'd expect the RV GFCI to trip in that case. You didn't really say if the RV GFCIs ever trip.

Now why didn't I think of that!? :S

The rigs GFCIs never trip, and the problem occurs when plugged into any GFCI--campground, my home, nieces home etc.

"It's possible for two GFCIs installed in series to to interact, although its relatively uncommon." That was electrician bil's thought. But he didn't offer any suggestions!

Thanks.

Now back to the OP's problem. Hope I didn't get in the way.

[tenbear]

I would add exterior receptacles to the suspect list. If water (rain) gets into them that could be a problem.

[wa8yxm]

I replied in another forum.

First, IN the RV, turn off ALL circuit breakers, INCLUDING the main.

Second you need to plug in two items to that GFCI, either via a multi tap extension cord or .. Well it is a duplex receptical.

one "Trouble Lamp" also known as a "Drop Cord".

Turn the lamp on and then plug in the RV, if the lamp holds GOOD.

(I will comment here if it does not, Forgot that on the other forum)

Now bring the lamp into the RV.

Turn on the breakers, Starting with the MAIN, one at a time. So long as the lamnp stays lit, count to 3 and turn on the next breaker, When the lamp goes out.. Note the breaker you turned on, Turn it back off, Reset the GFCI and continue till you have turned on ALL the breakers and hopefully just one is off.

Now. how is that breaker labeled and what is NOT working in the RV. (You may need to use the light to check outlets and such)

Suspect list:

COnverter or Inverter
Fridge
Water heater

These are the big suspects.. Generator bonding may or may not be an issue but it should not be due to isolation via thetransfer switch.

Now, if the light goes out when all the breakers are off..

Suspects include an INVERTER if you have one (Bonded imnproperly) and shorts in the wiring.

[DryCamper11]

Canadian Rainbirds wrote:
here is what happens in our rig when plugged into ANY GFCI.

Plug the rig into GFCI outlet (mains) when the breakers to the two GFCI protected circuits in the rig are on, the mains GFCI trips. Unplug from mains, turn off the two house breakers, plug in the mains GFCI, and all is well. Drove me nuts until I found this out.

If I read this correctly, the pedestal (mains) GFCI trips whenever your RV GFCI breakers are on, but the RV GFCI doesn't trip when you plug into non-GFCI protected power.

It's possible for two GFCIs installed in series to to interact, although its relatively uncommon. You might try replacing the RV GFCIs to check this.

It's possible you've got problem that's not sufficient to trip the RV breakers, but does trip the pedestal/mains. You could try temporarily replacing the RV GFCI with a normal breaker. If the pedestal still trips, you have problem on that circuit that the RV GFCI can't see.


It's possible you have one of the less common situations where turning off the breaker after the GFCI prevents the GFCI from tripping, although, I'd expect the RV GFCI to trip in that case. You didn't really say if the RV GFCIs ever trip.

[Canadian_Rainbi]

dougrainer wrote:
Turn off all your breakers in the RV panel. Plug in the GFCI shore power pedestal. IF it does NOT trip, then your shore Cord/Transfer is OK. Turn on the 50 or 30 amp MAIN breaker in your breaker panel. If it does NOT trip the GFCI, then turn on 1 Breaker at a time until the GFCI trips. Once you have determined which breaker when turned ON trips the shore GFCI. either run your APU and then determine what outlets/appliances are ON that circuit. Then trace and disconnect each appliance or circuit 1 at a time until you find the problem. Doug

I've let this thread run for a while; I don't want to hijack thid thread but here is what happens in our rig when plugged into ANY GFCI.

Plug the rig into GFCI outlet (mains) when the breakers to the two GFCI protected circuits in the rig are on, the mains GFCI trips. Unplug from mains, turn off the two house breakers, plug in the mains GFCI, and all is well. Drove me nuts until I found this out.

[DryCamper11]

Bobbo wrote:
Generator bonding is a whole other can of worms. If you think this thread has been contentious, start a thread on bonded generators vs non-bonded generators.

Yes, I've read and participated in some of those threads. It wasn't my intent to start a new one here. 🙂

[bguy]

G round
F ault
C ircuit
I nterrupter

[Bobbo]

DryCamper11 wrote:
This isn't all that uncommon. I've seen it also. My gen is wired that way (can't be changed) and my home-made automatic transfer switch switches the neutral as well as the hot lead. When running on the gen, the ground and neutral are connected. When running off shore power, they are separate.

Generator bonding is a whole other can of worms. If you think this thread has been contentious, start a thread on bonded generators vs non-bonded generators.

FYI, if you have an energy management system that refuses to work on a generator, giving the "OPEN GROUND" message, bonding the generator is the fix.

[DryCamper11]

KJINTF wrote:
This is the 50amp surge guard

Thank you. So when the Surge Guard triggers, it connects the neutral, and any neutral to ground leakage anywhere in the RV will trip the park pedestal GFCI regardless of whether the RV breakers are on or off. Based on that photo, I'd be surprised if it was the Surge Guard causing the tripping.

I suppose it might be the WH element.

[KJINTF]

This is the 50amp surge guard
Not sure if the thread is talking 30 amp or 50amp version
Looks to me as if this one switches
Both Hots and the Netural but not the ground

[DryCamper11]

Does anyone have a circuit diagram for a Surge Guard? Does it switch the neutral and/or ground leads when connecting and disconnecting?

[notruffinit]

Golly! First of all, the situation and what I will be doing to solve.

When I first plug in to the GFI outlet (any GFI), the outlet does NOT trip. That would indicate that all is fine through the cord, adaptors and plugs up to the Surge Guard. It is only after the 2 and a half minute delay when the Surge Guard allows the power to flow through does the GFI trip.

I will first unplug all appliances and disconnect all AC devices including the Water heater (on its own breaker), refrigerator, and converter. I have no transfer switch.

If that fails to solve I will proceed to bypass the Surge Guard which might have some leakage, by putting jumpers around the unit to allow voltage to flow to the coach immediately, without the delay. If I get the GFI trip then I have eliminated the Surge Guard as a problem.

I will then proceed to remove the neutrals one at a time to attempt an isolation to a specific circuit. It is my hope that I should find the problem this way.

I have really enjoyed reading all the suggestions and expertise here and have learned more than I thought. For instance, I did not know that a neutral to ground would trip a ground fault.

[DryCamper11]

Mandalay Parr wrote:
On one I helped fix a while back, the white and green wires were connected to the same buss bar at the power distribution panel.

This isn't all that uncommon. I've seen it also. My gen is wired that way (can't be changed) and my home-made automatic transfer switch switches the neutral as well as the hot lead. When running on the gen, the ground and neutral are connected. When running off shore power, they are separate.

[DryCamper11]

Hondavalk wrote:
Wow you can learn something new every day. Had to see for myself and jumped the neutral and ground on a energized GFI and it tripped. :S

Amazing, isn't it? I was just as surprised when I first saw it.

Also I agree with Chris and would start with the surge procetor.

Ditto - that's a good place to start.