Need help finding an interior wall outlet...

[groundhogy]

Hi and thanks for reading my post.

I have a wall outlet that went bad in my airstream bathroom.

It's an odd bird. Looks like this one on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/255001978758?hash=item3b5f4d6786:g:Oi4AAOSwc9Rdtdzn

The 120 volt line travels right through the thing. It is never cut in two. The installer just splays the three wires and presses them down into those knives that cut through the insulation and bite the wires.

There is also the two wings that spring out and grip the back of the "wall" when you mount the thing.

MY PROBLEM:
Mine is charred.
I need a replacement.
But, wont I have to cut the bad section of wire out?
THis will leave me with a non-continuous line.

So I am looking for the same exact type of outlet (with wings), except with screw terminals?

[joebedford]

I installed screw-type receptacles on a couple of new circuits. I check them periodically because of vibration and have not found a single screw loose after 5-6 years.

[Blacklane]

Screw-type terminals where you wrap a wire around a screw are not appropriate for a vibration environment, such as in an RV. You need to use clamp style, spring style (also called back-stab), or the original punch-down style used in self-contained devices.

Also, installing self-contained devices is much easier with a special tool for the job. For a single outlet, it will probably be cheaper to just have a professional do it.

Many will claim that household devices are superior to self-contained devices, but that's not really verifiable. Both are usually certified by UL and CCA (check for that) and both are allowed by the US National Electric Code.

[JBarca]

deleted- double post by accident

[JBarca]

See if this will help. It is called a box extender. They are used in the more traditional campers when you have to install a GFIC into a shallow/old work box. This goes on the outside of the wall, over the top of the wallboard.

https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-6197-I-Shallow-Wallbox-Extender/dp/B0015XKHO0/ref=asc_df_B0015XKHO0

The box extender will give you more room on the box. You still have to have enough wire to splice/attach to a standard receptacle.

I'm not saying this will fix your issue, just throwing out options in case it can help. It creates more room.

This is not the best pic of the extender, I was troubleshooting the KIB tank panel, but the GFIC is just below it with the extender cover on it.


Hope this helps

John

[enblethen]

In a normal house with 2x4 or 2 x6 walls, you would use what is called an "old work" box. They have wings that when tighten clamps the box to the wall surface material.
Old work box

[groundhogy]

Well how do you get a box behind the wall in a finished RV wall (airstream)?

Then also you will have one oddball outlet.

[pianotuna]

groundhogy wrote:
OP:

Yes, once i pulled the outlet out, I discovered that almost all if the black char was in the blades of the outlet. The wires appear to be in very good shape.

The manufacturer allowed plenty of extra line to pull out the box.

My first thought was to find a good screw outlet with the wings (pawls). I spent a good amount of time and could not find this critter.

I did manage to find an original style outlet so I ordered that.
I will just let it bite in about 1/2 inch away from the original bite location.

How does that sound?

It sounds like a HUGE mistake.

I replaced all but one of the outlets in my RV with screw terminal type.

[enblethen]

I would measure the wall depth to see if a standard box will fit. Shallow boxes will not always accept a receptacle.
I would not use the old style receptacle with side screw terminals. Better ones are the back wired clamp style.

[groundhogy]

OP:

Yes, once i pulled the outlet out, I discovered that almost all if the black char was in the blades of the outlet. The wires appear to be in very good shape.

The manufacturer allowed plenty of extra line to pull out the box.

My first thought was to find a good screw outlet with the wings (pawls). I spent a good amount of time and could not find this critter.

I did manage to find an original style outlet so I ordered that.
I will just let it bite in about 1/2 inch away from the original bite location.

How does that sound?

[wa8yxm]

enblethen wrote:
Walls in many RVs are not deep enough to accept standard electrical boxes and receptacles.

True. they make "Shallow box" or "Thin wall" outlets and boxes.
However he'd need enough slack in the wires to NOT use wire nuts or other connectors if he used them. Or he'd need to add a box above the existing (or beside) box for a junction.. (Easily done but why)

[Gdetrailer]

p220sigman wrote:
As was said, just replace with a conventional box/outlet. We had a mobile home that had these and I just replaced them as needed. Not a difficult job as long as the wire has enough slack in it, otherwise it becomes a challenge.

If you just want to replace it with a like outlet, you can find them on Amazon. Search "self contained outlet"

Mobile home and RV are not the "same" as far as wall construction.

Mobile homes have thicker, deeper walls (2x4 or 2x3 construction) which normal outlets in work boxes can be used making the conversion a lot easier to do.

RVs due to being a "mobile" environment to save weight and to maximize usable space are constructed out of 1x2s (1/2" x 1 1/4") giving you a max usable depth of about 1 1/4" at best. This makes changing to normal workboxes and outlets a challenge at best.

Add in the fact that the RV manufacturers are not obligated in any way shape or form to leave any excess wire loop making this change even much more difficult or impossible.

In most cases there will be just enough to pull the speed outlet out of the wall to replace with another speed outlet.. To replace with a standard workbox and outlet you will need at least 6" more per side than what will be there to make even a cobbled up wire nut and pigtail work.

To the OP, do not cut the wire and try regular workbox and outlet unless you are able to pull at least a 12" loop of wire out of the wall.. You need as much wire as possible to make a splice and pigtails with wire nuts or crimps correctly.

The one RV that I had with speed outlets, I had one outlet which barely pulled out of the wall.. If I had cut the wire, there would never been enough existing wire to splice with wire nuts or crimps correctly. My only option was to replace with another speed outlet.

Not saying that will be the case in all RVs, but it is a very real possibility you will run into.

I am not impressed with speed outlets, don't think they are as robust as standard outlets but sometimes you simply do not have a choice and must replace with a new speed outlet if there is not enough existing wire left.

[enblethen]

Walls in many RVs are not deep enough to accept standard electrical boxes and receptacles.

[p220sigman]

As was said, just replace with a conventional box/outlet. We had a mobile home that had these and I just replaced them as needed. Not a difficult job as long as the wire has enough slack in it, otherwise it becomes a challenge.

If you just want to replace it with a like outlet, you can find them on Amazon. Search "self contained outlet"

[Gdetrailer]

bob213 wrote:
If you need to cut a bad section of wire out I would splice in a new piece of wire and use wire nuts tucked into a remodel box with a conventional outlet. It's still a continuous run, just goes thru the outlet.

Generally, when speed boxes have been used, there simply will not be enough wire loop to pull out, cut, insert into a workbox and then splice.. The wires are stapled in place and typically you get just enough slack to pull the outlet out of the wall and turn it slightly.

Been there, done that myself.

The through wiring of speed boxes means not only savings in speed during manufacturing but also wire. Yes, the wire savings may sound petty but if you save 1 ft per outlet and with say 20 outlets that is 20ft per unit and multiply that by 10,000 units built per yr.. 200,000 ft of wire the RV manufacturer did not have to buy..

14 ga Romex right now is running $.50 per ft..

That's a savings of $100,000 per yr for the RV manufacturer.

Second, RV walls are paper thin, standard 3.5" deep workboxes will stick out of the wall 2".. So, that requires low profile workboxes, standard low profile workboxes do not have sufficient cubic inches for a pair of Romex cables (in and out). Like this..



That leads us to using a special low profile workbox which has a "sidecar" on the side.. Like this..



But once again, if there is no slack loop in the wire, none of those boxes will work.