Test Drive #2 Smoking Calipers? Help me decide: In Or Out

[CrusinSusan]

I've been in the process of buying a used consigned 1999 RoadTrek 190 Popular (Dodge Ram Van chassis), and I have to say first that the dealer has been very responsive to problems as they come up (and paying for them as they do come up): replacing filter on genny so it works right, paying my mechanic to fix the check engine light (was a speed sensor issue), applying rust retardant to the areas my mechanic pointed out (Florida vehicle; rust expected and was just bumper and hitch issues), replacing leaking dump pipe, replacing leaking differential plug (15 years causes shrinkage, and the oil would slosh back and leak out), and a few other items. I offered to pay for some body work on the driver's door, where rust required more than a coating of retardant, mostly because he was fixing all these other things and not changing the price on me. (I want a good relationship with, what I consider to be, an honest dealer, and I believe in being fair too.)

We had agreed on a price, and a price on my trade-in (all handshake-only), and I took it out for a last test-drive today; finding that the cruise control didn't work (this was the first highway drive, and so my only chance to check the cruise control), and he said he's have that fixed. There was some squeaking from wheel areas on even the slightest turns when first beginning to drive it, and he said he thought his mechanic has oiled (insert name of something I can't recall here)...and he'd have his guy check that again.

After about 15 miles (not all highway) I wanted to give it a good turn test, and did so via a tight U-turn which caused all kinds of wheel-squeaking noise and we bottomed out too (Not sure I can blame this on anything but the ridiculously low nature of RoadTreks though). Either way, the squeaking shouldn't be.

About 1/4 mile down the road, the van starts to pull to the left, and the right front passenger tire area is smoking. We pull over right away, and the dealer says it's the caliper, and explains it to me, that perhaps rust has stopped the calipers from being able to move (fyi: new brakes on this rig). We wait for it to cool down, and bring it to his down-the-street mechanic, and leave the rig with him, and take another car back to the dealership.

I was all set to buy this rig, but now I just don't know. The smoke and stink has got me questioning the deal. So I'm asking for your help/ideas. And, FWIW, I think this is an honest guy just as unfamiliar with this consignment as I am, so I'm not asking you to evaluate his integrity, but rather, the integrity of the vehicle itself with what little information I can offer.

Please feel free to ask whatever you want to help me come to a decision. PS: My mechanic, whom I trust, thought the vehicle was fine to buy, and I paid for that evaluation (yes, he got it up on the lift and I got under it with him).

So, if he replaces the two front calipers (rear are disks), do you think that...

heck, I don't even know what to ask. I'm leaning towards walking away from this deal, but I'd hate to.

I just dunno. Oh, and no maintenance records from previous owner. And the previous owner covered the check engine light with black tape because the light bothered him (Oy vey).

You might say: Susan!? Why are you still with this deal at all? Well, the rig (always wanted one...perfect for me), and the price is not to be beat, AND the dealer is indeed addressing everything that comes up.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Susan, I did not direct my 2nd answer at you, rather at folks who have NEVER touched a brake pad or honed a wheel cylinder in their life. Armchair experts.

Corrosion seizing a disc brake caliper is SERIOUS. Rubber boots over the caliper piston are supped to SEAL the piston and the bore from moisture that can cause corrosion and seizing.

Corrosion can come from the inside. When CONDENSATION forms inside a master cylinder (the thing on the firewall, your brake pedal is connected to it) the condensation turns to water. Water is heavier than brake fluid so it gravitates its way down to wheel cylinders and calipers. Water also poisons the preservative value of brake fluid causing rubber sealing parts in the master cylinder and brake proportioning valve to DISINTEGRATE, and micro finished sealing bores in the metal to corrode and rust and seize parts. WATER also deteriorates brake HOSES, and you have hoses on the front wheels and of you have discs on each rear wheel. Drum rear brakes have a center hose down to the differential housing.

A frozen front disc is a warning sign. Similar to smoke coming from your battery bay.

Is there WATER inside the brake system? Destroying calipers, and master cylinder, hoses, and what not? You need a trustworthy independent inspection of this one single solitary point. If they FLUSH the brake system and capture WATER at the calipers and or wheel cylinders, it is time to think about passing this rig up or face a potential repair bill with a big comma in the price number.

I spent FOUR DAYS in Las Peñas Mexico, helping a rig owner overcome the effects (He was from Florida) of getting water in the brake system. Condensation from humid air.

Even though the brand new E-450 discs cost a measly seventy six dollars each (they are made in Mexico these days), with calipers, hoses, machining, master cylinder and proportioning valve, and my FREE labor, the job cost him more than six hundred dollars.

He was incredulous about water causing problems in the hoses, until I sliced one down the middle and peeled it open.

His rig was SIX YEARS OLD.

Water in the brake fluid is no joke. That is and was the point I was trying to make. I'll screw around with many systems, but steering, suspension and brakes.

Hope this helps

[overbrook]

CrusinSusan wrote:
I did just call and ask for the brake system to be flushed

Susan,

When I bought my 1999 Dodge Van RV, the right front brake caliper locked up soon after purchase.

I took it to my local Pit Stop repair center (they service large trucks) and they said the brake fluid had boiled and in addition to replacing the front calipers they recommended replacing the brake lines as well due to their age.

Flushing the lines won't fix the deterioration of the brake lines - and is usually just a temporary fix.

I also added a helper leaf to the rear springs ($500) trying to resolve the handling problem. The net result was the van was driveable on the highway - but required both hands on the wheel at all times and total concentration.

I sold it and bought a 2004 B+ on the Ford e350 chassis (for less than the price of the 1999 Class B), and am so much happier with it than with the B Van.

Bill

[CrusinSusan]

Hey bill, thanks...no rust on those spots that I saw, and I did get it up to 70 mph on the highway...there was some sway, but I've had that in other vehicles (ford E350 and Winnebago View).

However, no truck passed me, as I was hoping for. And I can say, it is not a pleasure to drive.

I did just call and ask for the brake system to be flushed, and was told they'd do it, but the owner is off today, and he's who I prefer to work with (ie: gut telling me that just because this person said it would be done, I'm not sure it will be done...same person who "fixed" the drain pipe leak with silicone, which didn't work (natch), so they replaced it)

So, all my faith is in the owner really, who comes through each and every time.

Oh, and it's at their mechanic's shop, so I guess they'll do the flush. And I've asked for clarification as to what kind of brakes are on the rig: disc or drum.

[overbrook]

CrusinSusan wrote:
Does that send up a flag?

Susan,

If you do decide to go ahead with the deal, don't sign any papers until you drive the Roadtrek on the highway at 60mph. If the unit wanders or if the handling is erratic, walk away from the deal.

Some 1998-2001 Dodge vans had serious handling problems that are almost impossible to resolve. These problems are magnified by the heavier weight added in the RV conversion, and especially if a lot of the weight is behind the rear wheels.

The handling issue is so bad that the NTSC has issued a roll-over warning for long wheel based Dodge vans from those years.

Also, the 1998-2001 Dodge vans have serious rust issues that appear around the rain gutters and front windshield pillars. If the van you are looking at has serious rust in these areas, walk away from it.

There are plenty of good deals on used RVs, and if you're in Florida, you are in the perfect place to find these deals.

Bill

[CrusinSusan]

Actually, he didn't say what the front were....just that the rear were disc.

I'm completely lost.

Will give them a call and ask for it to be brought to my mechanic (again) for brake fluid flush/replace, and new fluids all round.

But I suspect they're as tired of this as I am.

I do appreciate the suggestions. Just having trouble understanding

[greatwhitenort1]

Tim Nowicki wrote:
Susan
if you have disc brakes on the rear, you have disc brakes on the front. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. As GWolfe said, I doubt you have drums up front. My statement still stands: disc brakes have no wheel cyinders. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Not sure what mexicowanderer means in his post. Can you clarify???

Tim

MW was referring to the rear wheels, which are in all likelihood drum brakes, which have wheel cylinders. (did you not read his sarcastic reply to your "no wheel cylinders" post). I won't correct you that disc don't have wheel cylinders, because they do not.
OP, who ever told you that your vehicle has discs on the rear, & drums on the front is full of it, or hasn't got a clue.

[mchero]

CrusinSusan wrote:
Only the rear brakes are disc...not the front.

Check engine light has been fixed.

Brakes are new. So are the shocks.

Salesman is the owner...and he knows what calipers are.

Guess, if I do go with it, my mechanic will have to have another shot at it beforehand, and have all the fluids changed and brake system flushed.

He (my mechanic) did pull all the wheels though.

Think I'd rather buy anything but a used vehicle; alas, finances dictate only a used RV, and only one vehicle. So it has to work, or I'll have to skip getting back into rving.

Odd, It's usally disc up front, drums in the rear. ???

[Tim_Nowicki]

Susan
if you have disc brakes on the rear, you have disc brakes on the front. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. As GWolfe said, I doubt you have drums up front. My statement still stands: disc brakes have no wheel cyinders. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Not sure what mexicowanderer means in his post. Can you clarify???

Tim

[CrusinSusan]

I didn't say the rear were drums. I said they were disc. At least, I was told they were disc.

I don't know what the front is.

Does that send up a flag?

[GWolfe]

Are you sure the rear are drum and not disc? I haven't heard of drum brakes being used on the front of a vehicle for years.

Edited, meant to add that maybe you should talk to your mechanic again and tell him what happened on the test drive. I wouldn't let the brake problem scare me away from this van if all else is good or being fixed. Those vans with the Magnum engines run good, I drove the wheels off of one for years as a service van, no major issues.

[CrusinSusan]

Only the rear brakes are disc...not the front.

Check engine light has been fixed.

Brakes are new. So are the shocks.

Salesman is the owner...and he knows what calipers are.

Guess, if I do go with it, my mechanic will have to have another shot at it beforehand, and have all the fluids changed and brake system flushed.

He (my mechanic) did pull all the wheels though.

Think I'd rather buy anything but a used vehicle; alas, finances dictate only a used RV, and only one vehicle. So it has to work, or I'll have to skip getting back into rving.

[gandude]

Brakes are no big deal, they do wear out. Just did a brake job on our 04 Mustang, is it not worth anything because it needed brakes?

If you have taken it to your mechanic,(trusted?) then he would be your best person to answer your questions about this vehicle because he has seen it and is probably unbiased.

If you do purchase it, drive it around town and on short trips before your dash to Alaska. Hopefully any potential problems will be found BEFORE your trip. I would also recommend changing all fluids as they can tell a story about condition and use.

Good luck with your decision.

[Bird_Freak]

As stated by OP, rear are disc also. I would have my mechanic go through the brakes. Also have the cause of the check engine light fixed if not already done.

[CrusinSusan]

MW, please elucidate.

If . . . "Master cylinders, proportioning valves, and rear brakes have nothing to do with safety, or your life." . . .

They have nothing to do with safety?

I admit I'm clueless on this stuff...which is why I'm here now. And I'm having trouble understanding your responses.

If, for some reason, you don't want to respond to my questions following your first post, perhaps someone else here could?

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Yes Mr. Tim, I apologize. Older rigs with rear drum brakes use "Miracles" to expand the brake shoes. Certainly not a hydraulic wheel cylinder.

When brakes go bad from corrosion only a very foolish person asssssssssssssumes they need to inspect and replace only that part that caught fire. Master cylinders, proportioning valves, and rear brakes have nothing to do with safety, or your life.