The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread

[pritch272]

8/1/2010 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: Champion Inverter and Remote Gens Promo on CPE's web site)

3/22/2011 edit: Thread renamed ...
Renamed from: Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

3/23/2011 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: (Un)Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

Inverter Available August 2010



Remote Available July 2010

[jgib01]

Old & Slow wrote:
dwh,
Perhaps, I am wrong to assume anything into the 'delisting' with Costco.Ca, of the Champion 2000i. And the return issue. As for any next production of this unit, or a possible new model, I quess we all will know someday. Finally, I watch with interest, as a possible future buyer of some small Inverter generator.

FWIW I noticed that it is back on the costco.ca site. I purchased one back when it was on sale, but have yet to unbox it. Planning to use it for emergency light home use in hurricane season and to run the furnace/boiler in the winter during power outages. Eventually will hopefully have a couple to use for RV'ing, but we are between RVs right now. If it goes on sale again, I just may be tempted. For now, I guess I'd better bust into the box and try it out, in light of some of the issues folks here have reported as of late.

[_40Fan]

Talked with CPE customer service today. They didn't seem too intersted in the fact the petcocks were leaking after I told them I had to fix them both! Yep, the first unit I purchased started leaking this morning. I initally thought that my repair on the second unit that I purchased didn't hold (couldn't remember which serial # belonged to which purchase). After I removed the tank I I found the original o-ring (not the one I used to fix the first leak) in good shape.

Here is a picture of the original one, then flipped over with the o-ring that I replaced it with. The new green one is a little thicker than the one that I used on the first fix.





The Jets in the carb can be removed and replaced. I asked the CPE person if they had any for sale and he replied no. I think I will try finding some with the same thread, 5mm I believe, and using those to down jet the carb for when in use at higher altitudes.

[zedd]

We just got back home from a long trip from AZ to Montana, including Yellowstone & Glacier. I used my 2000i in Glacier (St Mary) and it worked fine. On the way back we stopped for a couple nights outside Flagstaff and when I fired it up there it started the surging, about once/sec, most noticeably in Econ mode. I thought it might be because of the load but it did the same thing with no load (the circuit breaker off). I used it a few times over the off-season at home with not problems. I don't know what the issue is/was...I haven't had a chance to look at it yet. Perhaps the altitude? St Mary is about 3700 ft but the campground at Flagstaff is about 7000. OTOH, I've run it without problems at 8-9000 ft. Bad gas, maybe? I dunno...

OK...I just went out & fired it up. It seems to get worse the longer it runs. It acts like it's about to die then the throttle is kicked and it speeds up again, only to almost die, then speeds up, etc etc etc. Voltage drops to about 90 then up to about 120. Not good...

[MountMac]

MrWizard wrote:
I wonder at what load levels this "hunting " occurs
No load, 300 watts, 600, 150??

Purchased the 73552i from Costco Kamloops BC on Jun 29th with mfg date of Apr 14, 2011. Although very quiet the generator does have the burping, surging, hunting problem at various loads (I do not have any info on the loads other than battery charger(s) and jig saw). I contacted tech support by email and was advised to contact them by phone when I had the generator available so they could help find / solve the problem.
I will report back after I get the chance to talk directly to tech support.

[MrWizard]

I wonder at what load levels this "hunting " occurs
No load, 300 watts, 600, 150??

[professor95]

JConatser wrote:
I don't own one of the CPE 2000i's, but I've been thinking about buying one. I know I would be an unhappy camper if I bought one and it had a rough idle problem as well.

I too would be interested in knowing how extensive the burping or rough idling issue is. I have yet to personally experience it on either one of my two CPI2000i units.

Any change in engine speed would need to be controlled by the throttle stepper motor, which is controlled by the ECM. The ECM would need some sort of signal that engine speed had dropped - most likely from a higher current being drawn so that it could signal the stepper motor to increase engine speed.

For those experiencing the issue I also wonder if something could be amiss inside the carburetor that momentarily restricts the smooth flow of air/fuel to the engine. This causes a drop in engine speed which is immediately compensated for by the EMC signaling the stepper to bump it up a little. Once the speed increases with no additional load a second signal is received that tells the stepper to slow it back down.

The problem is, what I am doing is all armchair quarterbacking. I simply do not know - I can only theorize what "it might be." To complicate matters more, nothing on the carburetor is adjustable - not the float level, jetting, etc. It is all fixed per our EPA requirements so we can't "mess" with it to compensate for differences in altitude, fuel, load, etc.

Unlike the springs and rods with adjustment screws we find on the non-inverters there are no tweaks to be made in the speed control system inside the ECM that we can get to. They are very much like modern automobile engines that have no idle adjustment screw on the TBI.

I was not there when the original CPE2000i units were tested, but I have every reason to believe that they were some of the most tested inverter generator products to hit the America's shores since the Japanese generator invasion. The introduction was moved back a full year after the product was developed due to testing and design tweaking and was only released after CPE engineers were convinced any bugs had been exterminated. I know this is true because I was privy to the development and impending release of the unit, but absolutely sworn to secrecy as far as giving out details. Every month I was told, "Not yet, we are still testing and refining." So, I just kept my mouth shut and waited.

No one likes being a prototype tester for a new product - especially when it is with their own money - the main reason I have such distaste for Microsoft's products that make us pay for them and then expect free evaluations and bug reports while we fret over unexplained crashes and failures (but that is another story).

I do not believe it is CPE's intent to mimic Microsoft's method of resolving problems with the CPE2000i.

I honestly do not have any answers from this end other than to say I believe CPE released a product that was fully tested and retested and nothing intentionally was overlooked. I also believe that any customer that has issues with burping that contacts CPE Tech Service will find that the company will do what is necessary to cure the problem if the customer will just work with them.

I cannot recommend the CPE2000i to anyone over another major brand - I can only relate that my experience has been positive with the product and I am pleased with the overall performance of my units, sans the 2000 watt box advertised output. Bottom line, despite some negative reports, I would buy them again for myself (unless I won the lottery and had $$$$ out the Koozoo).

[JConatser]

I don't own one of the CPE 2000i's, but I've been thinking about buying one. I know I would be an unhappy camper if I bought one and it had a rough idle problem as well.

Surely Champion engineers would have tested them by letting them sit and run at different load levels for a long while when they were developing them. If, however, a lot of people who own one are having this rough idle problem, that would suggest three possibilities that I can think of:
1. CPE didn't test 'em that way (which IMO would be a very bad black eye for CPE engineering)
2. CPE did test them that way, but started selling them anyway, knowing that a lot of them would have a rough idle artifact (which IMO would be a black eye for CPE ethics)
3. Some kind of adjustment spec or part change that's happened after the design/testing process

So I'm wondering... how many people following this thread who own one (or more) of the CPE 2000i's are experiencing the "rough idle" artifact? How many who own one are not?

I know right now I'm very leery about buying one because of this reported rough idle issue.

BTW, Wuttevr, what problem did you have with your first two units?

[Wuttevr]

I was very pleased with my 3500 open frame, and had high hopes for this unit. I am on my third unit (1 yellow and 2 red) and am unimpressed, to say the least. FWIW- it seems to handle my PD9260 reasonably well, although I have never been below about 70% SOC on 225 AH AGM's. What I simply cannot live with is the the rough idle. A quiet generator is still very noticeable (if not annoying) when the RPM's change continuously, with, or without load. Call it choking, burping.....wuttevr, it just isn't steady. I was going to stick it out until I camped next to a guy with a very obviously clapped out Honda 2000 last weekend. Trust me- the thing had seen some miles. Yet it sat there and purred, perfectly, for hours (at 7700 ft elevation). Now I know it is against CCC rules to compare it to a Honda, but it is impossible not to, as that is the yard stick. I am either going to wait for the bugs to get worked out, or throw another $350-$400 at it and do it right.

[byates]

tvman44 wrote:
Surely they can sell them as refurbished units.

According to the CSPC, “it is illegal to resell or attempt to resell a recalled consumer product.” I just found it interesting that Cummins Onan reported a similar problem to CSPC, which was the point of my post.

I don’t profess to be a legal authority on the regulations regarding consumer products, but I do know that consumer products fall into two categories, regulated and unregulated.
According to the US Consumer Product Safety Commission, if a product is unregulated, then the following reporting is required
“Dangerous Products (Section 15) - Manufacturers, importers, distributors, and retailers are required to report to CPSC under Section 15 (b) of the Consumer Product Safety Act (CPSA) within 24 hours of obtaining information which reasonably supports the conclusion that a product does not comply with a safety rule issued under the CPSA, or contains a defect which could create a substantial risk of injury to the public or presents an unreasonable risk of serious injury or death, 15 U.S.C. § 2064(b).”

This would explain Cummins Onan’s action in reporting a similar defect to CSPC. If this regulation applies to “an unknown number (maybe 200?) were shipped out to suppliers and sold to customers,” then I would hope that in the interest of public safety that CPE would do the same.

Edit: The EPA is out of control, but Cummins Onan's recall was a matter of product safety, hence the CSPC.

[professor95]

tvman44 wrote:
Surely they can sell them as refurbished units.

Champion, like most other engine manufacturers, does not sell any refurbished units in the United States. Returns, regardless of problems or issues, are never re-boxed for retail sale.

Most all of this is due to EPA emissions regulations requiring re-certification and warranty of engine emission systems. Current laws are pretty stringent for power equipment manufacturer's and the cost of re-certification can exceed the value of the unit. EPA is pushing hard for designs that will prohibit owner repairs to small engines. The day is close when all of this stuff will have to be trashed when a problem develops. Removing carburetors, mufflers/catalytic converters/cylinder heads for adjustment or repair will be illegal without a license and an EPA approved re-certification label. One proposal that was set aside last year, but is sure to resurface, are fasteners (bolts & screws) that will destroy the engine if removed.

Under proposed legislation modifications such as the ones I made to my 40008 (LPG fuel, muffler change/relocation) could land me a stiff fine or even jail time (in the future).

It is a changing world. If the EPA has their way, we will not even be able to change our own oil without a license to do so - and the license would require us to account for every ounce of used oil and verification from yet another licensed disposal facility.

[tvman44]

Surely they can sell them as refurbished units.

[byates]

professor95 wrote:

#40Fan wrote:


Pulled the top unit off and found a small puddle of gas in the right front, top corner pocket of the lower unit.

Funny you should make this post today.

I learned today that there were a bunch of new units received in California from the factory in China that had the same problem. Before CPE Tech Support discovered the problem an unknown number (maybe 200?) were shipped out to suppliers and sold to customers. When they discovered the problem they began a process of replacing the petcock on several thousand new units still in the warehouse. A rather daunting task.

Anyway - CPE is aware of the problem and will gladly replace or repair any unit that has the leak you described. You apparently were the recipient of some of the bad units.

Tech support will most likely pick-up on your post but will have no idea who you are or how to contact you. I hope you will call them and report your problem so they will know what supplier or store may have units with a leaking petcock.

CummingsOnan had a similar situation last year involving 550 of their Chinese made units with potential fuel leaks. After 25 reported problems, CummingsOnan was a bit more proactive in that they voluntarily issued a recall alert in cooperation with the CPSC. CummingsOnan directly contacted affected consumers offering a full refund plus $100. CummingsOnan was able to quantify the number of potential hazardous units, with model/serial numbers and dates of manufacture.

What I find interesting is that the Recall Alert advises that it is illegal to sell or resell a recalled consumer product. By issuing the recall, CummingsOnan served their customers well with the notification of a potential safety hazard absorbing any associated cost.

Take what you will from this post, but it is factual.
http://www.cumminsonan.com/www/html/Common/pdf/recalls/recall-alert-052510.pdf

[_40Fan]

I know of three units purchased from this store in the last week. Two by me, and one other by my boss. Boss is out using his this weekend, and my first purchase was OK.

Knowing that this was a problem, I'll give them a call Monday.

BTW, all three gens had a birthday of 12/2010.

Scary part of this, is that the fuel drips down on the wiring coming from the front panel, travels down the wiring and drips on the main board. What falls from the petcock drips onto a relay. Could lead to an easy fire situation in a hurry.

[professor95]

Posting removed due to incorrect information.

Sorry! Prof95

[_40Fan]

Well, after only one hour on the new second unit, it has gone under the knife! (Don't mind the date on the pictures...camera doesn't keep good track of time)

Picked up a second genny today. Filled it up with gas and oil and ran it for 30 minutes. Sat it on top of the first unit and took a picture.



Pulled the top unit off and found a small puddle of gas in the right front, top corner pocket of the lower unit. Pulled the back cover off to have a look. Four screws using a #3 phillips.



On the bottom front side of the tank I could see fuel dripping from the petcock.



I told the wife about it and she asked if I was going to return it. I told her I fix things for a living, I should be able to fix this. And I do believe it would have taken more time to haul it back to Sam's Club than the time it took to fix it.

So, off with the handle. Four bolts using a 10mm socket. Remove the gas cap as well.



The top cover is only snapped to the four walls. So starting at the back where the rear cover is removed, pull up gently and work your way around the top.



Need to remove the petcock handle from the front. A long #2 phillips get this job done. Make sure it is in the off position!



Three bolts hold the tank to the frame (if you want to call it that). Removed with a 7mm socket.

Once you can lift the tank up, using a pair of needle nose pliers, squeeze the hose clamp and pull it back, then pull the hose off of the petcock.



With the tank removed you can now take the petcock off with a 3/4" wrench (19mm).



With a good tug, trying not to break the filter, remove it. This is where I found the problem. Inside of the petcock nut there was a square cut o-ring. It appears that during assembly, someone didn't take the time to make sure everything was inline before they tightened the nut, which fubar'd the o-ring.

In the process of trying to find a correct o-ring, I lost the original that was cut up and forgot to take a picture of the o-ring that I replaced it with. I just used a rounded o-ring that I had laying in my junk drawer of my tool box. Went looking for another to take a picutre of, and it must have been my last.

Here is a picture of the petcock without the o-ring, and then with it.





When selecting my o-ring of choise, I just found one that fit the inside diameter of the nut and one that was thick enough to catch the threads of the tank when installed. I wish I had a specific o-ring part number so that anyone else with this problem could go to a parts store and get the right one on the first try.

I put the petcock back on the tank. Getting the orientation of the fuel selector was a little tricky so that it aligned with the hole in the front cover while tighting the nut, so go slow here. Don't want to fubar another o-ring. Once installed I sat the tank flat and made sure there wasn't going to be any more leaks before I put everything back together.