2011 Ram 3500 SRW 5th wheel capability?

[wrasse]

I have an excellent condition 2011 SRW 3500 megacab looking to tow 15.5--16.5K 5th wheel toy hauler (2300-2700lb pin).

I will be using the toy hauler 4-6 times a year 200-1000 mile trips. The truck is used for many other things so DRW isn't practical especially as I live in crowded city.

I was originally thinking I needed to upgrade to 2013 + Ram 2500/3500 SRW to get the right load rating.

In speaking with Ram, they recommend 2014 Ram 2500 or 3500 SRW for the type of trailer I'm trying to tow. Trying to stick to SRW and it is apparently well within it's rated rating.

Capacity rating is as follows...

2013 2500 Mega 3.42 is rated
GVWR 10,000
Payload 2,250
GCWR 25,000
Max Tow 17,080

My current 2011 3500 Mega SRW 3.73 is rated
GVWR 10,100
Payload 2,590
GCWR 21,000
Max Tow 13,350

In studying the difference, the 2013 Ram 2500 has the same frame, 68RFE transmission, and same rear axle (yes, I understand the upgraded frame, etc on 2013 3500 but I'm speaking about the 2013 Ram 2500 which has the same frame).

They have essentially the same braking system and engine power. Only significant difference I found is the tire load rating.
My 2011 17" tires are rated at 3195lb each, the 2013 18" tires are rated at 3640lb each.

Besides the tires, it doesn't make sense that a 2013 Ram 3/4 ton would be rated higher in it's tow rating compared to my 2011 Ram 1 ton.

I prefer to stay with SRW for many reasons and I love my current mint low mileage 2011 3500 megacab SRW, has exhaust brakes which work awesome. I am willing to upgrade the tires, cooling/bags, etc if needed as it is no big deal. I rather go that route than go to 2013+ Ram just to get a silly sticker on the door. I am thinking that with mild upgrades, I should have at least similar or more capable 1 ton tow vehicle than a 2013 Ram 2500.
The huge jump in tow rating form 2013 Ram seems more like marketing trick more than anything.

Perhaps I'm missing something, any thoughts from people with real world experience with SRW 5th wheel towing would be appreciated.

[jus2shy]

Even though the 2013 RAM 2500 has the older frame on it, it did receive the heavily revised cooling setup which could explain some of the gain in towing capacity. This along with an extra 20 hp and maintaining the same 800 ft-lbs of torque. So it's probably a cooling capacity and hp increase that made them feel a little more comfy with increasing the tow capacity?

So by your logic, it's a simple intercooler, radiator, trans cooler, and whatever other cooler upgrade along with upping the HP a bit. Maybe also something to do with emissions tuning since the 2013+ motor doesn't have to use nearly as much EGR (so I guess this would be the delete part). I know the pre 2013 motors required maintenance of the EGR valve where as the current motor doesn't have an EGR PM procedure. I also believe that the wheels were pushed up to 18" tires which allowed for the spec'ing of tires that can stand 3600 lbs a piece. Those are all the differences I can honestly think of (aside from the interior which has nothing to do with tow capacity really).

[wrasse]

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/2013-general-discussion/917017-brand-new-ram-3500-dually-bad-transmission.html

68RFE failed at stock levels. So can a head gasket.
It can go with power upgrade or at stock levels. You do your best to drive correctly and hope for the best.

I posted here as I thought there would be a lot of folks experienced in towing with Rams to provide experienced advise.
I didn't expect all this silly sniping at what I was asking.

So far, no one has provided any reasonable explanation on why or why not a 2011 Ram 3500 SRW can be upgraded to have the same rated towing ability as 2013 Ram 2500 via tire/possible cooling upgrades (both easily done and can be upgraded to better than 2013 tire/cooling ratings.

If there is a good explanation for this, I'm all ears.

Me Again wrote:

wrasse wrote:

I have way more power than your 2013 DEF 6.7 motor with my H&S tuned 6.7. Power/tranny is not the issue, try again.

Check back with us when your truck is getting a beefed up 68RFE tranny and how much it cost you! Chris

[Me_Again]

wrasse wrote:

I have way more power than your 2013 DEF 6.7 motor with my H&S tuned 6.7. Power/tranny is not the issue, try again.

Check back with us when your truck is getting a beefed up 68RFE tranny and how much it cost you! Chris

[wrasse]

Wrong, 11.75 diff is only with 3500 aisin/DRW package.
2013 2500 has the exact same frame and 11..5 diff as 2010-2013. Frame on 2500 didn't change until 2014.

Still doesn't explain huge tow rating jump for 2013 2500.

Me Again wrote:
Lets see the 2013 got an improved frame and the rear end in the Aisin equipmented trucks went for 11.5" diffs to 11.75" among other things. I think they earned their higher ratings.

Chris

[Me_Again]

Lets see the 2013 got an improved frame and the rear end in the Aisin equipmented trucks went for 11.5" diffs to 11.75" among other things. I think they earned their higher ratings.

Chris

[45Ricochet]

wrasse wrote:


I have way more power than your 2013 DEF 6.7 motor with my H&S tuned 6.7. Power/tranny is not the issue, try again.

I concur with the others, your flirting with HG failure. The Cummins 6.7 forums are full of them. If that happens we will have another dreaded Ram basher :W on this board.
Seems like you have your mind made up though, so I wish you good luck bud.

[goducks10]

The 13 Ram also received improved cooling for the tranny and motor. That's why the tow rating went up for 13 but the payload stayed the same or so. Google 13 Ram 6.7 features and you'll see that the improved cooling was one of the reasons they increase towing capacity.
And like stated before watch your EGT with the tuner or you'll be buying new head gaskets.

[Old-Biscuit]

My current 2011 3500 Mega SRW 3.73 is rated
GVWR 10,100
Payload 2,590
GCWR 21,000
Max Tow 13,350


First...payload. That number is derived from base curb weight subtracted from GVWR.
What is your actual payload......??
That means a trip across the scales fully loaded camp ready (you, all passengers, fuel, stuff in cab and stuff in bed----add 200# for hitch if you don't have one).
Now what does the truck weight?
7800#, 8000# ??? subtracted from 10,000#----that will be available payload.
How much does rear axle weigh? Subtract that from RAWR (6200#)
How much does rear axle weigh? Subtract that from the rear tire MAX Load Rating (3195 X=6390#)

Max Tow.....13,350#
That'll put you in the 2400-2600# pin weight
Hummmmmmm. Don't have that much payload left

And you are wanting to tow a 15.5K to 16.5K TH that will have a pin weight between 3000# and 3400#.
You max out with a 12K 5vr.

Your truck ratings are for your truck.
Can't use other Model Year ratings....even if they are the same MFG.

The same goes for the 2013 Model
It has a lower payload 'rating'......(not actual number)


And the MAX Tow Ratings are a joke.
Real world.......GVWR/RAWR/REAR TIRE MAX LOAD RATINGS----ALL will be exceeded before reaching that magical max tow marketing number
(Mfg. don't load up the truck with wife/kids/dogs/stuff and hook up to test)

[FishOnOne]

RAM improved the quality of their majic towing dust in '13. :R

Go figure...:h

BTW... I'd go easy on that tuned 6.7 while towing! Your flirting with a head gasket failure unless you got studs. :W And the increased power from a tuner or any drivetrain enhancements doesn't change the factory rated towing capacity.

[wrasse]

No, the GVWR is 100 lb lower for 2013 2500 compared to my 2011 3500 mega SRW yet it has a way higher tow rating.

I have way more power than your 2013 DEF 6.7 motor with my H&S tuned 6.7. Power/tranny is not the issue, try again.

Huge jump in tow rating fails basic logic. Either 2011 Ram was underrated or the new 2013 is over rated. I am tending to believe the former. So far evidence points that 2011 was likely limited purely due to tire rating. Easy fix.

Also, Ram is the only one of the big 3 that does not publish a separate 5th wheel tow rating.

45Ricochet wrote:
The tow ratings or GCWR are bigger because of the different engine and tranny.
The MY 2013's have more HP and TQ with the added DEF. Also it could very well have a Aisin tranny.
The GVWR only increased by 100 lbs which explains your frame question. One year Ford increased the brake rotor size by about a quarter inch and upped there GVWR by 1000 lbs :B
Just me but 16.5K lbs of trailer your going to need a DRW truck or some bigger rubber.

[45Ricochet]

The tow ratings or GCWR are bigger because of the different engine and tranny.
The MY 2013's have more HP and TQ with the added DEF. Also it could very well have a Aisin tranny.
The GVWR only increased by 100 lbs which explains your frame question. One year Ford increased the brake rotor size by about a quarter inch and upped there GVWR by 1000 lbs :B
Just me but 16.5K lbs of trailer your going to need a DRW truck or some bigger rubber.

[donn0128]

Do what you want. This argument will be waged for much longer than I will be alive. Mainly because so many people think they are smarter than the people who designed and certified these vehicles as to their capacities.

[ScottG]

The thing is, even though the parts look vaguely the same, many things can be very different.
I would not overload your truck just because a later model has more capacity.

[kzspree320]

With a SRW 2500 or 3500 and a fifth wheel, the limiting factor is can it handle the pin weight plus weight of cargo. Due to there heavy weights, Mega cabs often have low payloads (cargo carrying capacity). You said your payload capacity is 2,590#. Will this be enough to handle the pin weight and other weight you put in the truck? I can't tell because I don't know what fifth wheel toy hauler you are considering. Even more important to me is will the total of the pin weight and other cargo weight on the rear axle (including the weight of the hitch) make the rear axle exceed the rear axle weight rating (RAWR). If it does make it exceed the RAWR, then you have too little truck for that particular trailer. Good luck on your research.