Brakes?

[Flashman]

Oh my

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/03/04/ford-f150-brake-failure-investigation-nhtsa/

[brulaz]

mowermech wrote:

brulaz wrote:
Apparently their was also an investigation into the 2011-2012 F150 EcoBs that use an electric vacuum assist pump.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/nhtsa-investigating-ford-f-150-for-reported-brake-failures

Dunno what the resolution of that was. I can't recall a recall notice.

In 2013 they switched to a belt driven vacuum pump which is the subject of the current investigation.

I talked to the son who recently bought a used Ford Eco Boost. He said he got a letter from Ford stating that he could, at his convenience, take his truck to any Ford Dealer and get the brake problem repaired, free of charge. Apparently, it is not a recall or TSB. He has the letter in the glove compartment, and if he ever experiences a loss of brake fluid he will have the repair done.

Thanks for that.
I'll ask the dealer about it when I get the next oil change.

[Lynnmor]

mowermech wrote:


I talked to the son who recently bought a used Ford Eco Boost. He said he got a letter from Ford stating that he could, at his convenience, take his truck to any Ford Dealer and get the brake problem repaired, free of charge. Apparently, it is not a recall or TSB. He has the letter in the glove compartment, and if he ever experiences a loss of brake fluid he will have the repair done.

Sounds like a great plan. He can have the collision repair center do the brakes while the truck is there.

[mowermech]

brulaz wrote:
Apparently their was also an investigation into the 2011-2012 F150 EcoBs that use an electric vacuum assist pump.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/nhtsa-investigating-ford-f-150-for-reported-brake-failures

Dunno what the resolution of that was. I can't recall a recall notice.

In 2013 they switched to a belt driven vacuum pump which is the subject of the current investigation.

I talked to the son who recently bought a used Ford Eco Boost. He said he got a letter from Ford stating that he could, at his convenience, take his truck to any Ford Dealer and get the brake problem repaired, free of charge. Apparently, it is not a recall or TSB. He has the letter in the glove compartment, and if he ever experiences a loss of brake fluid he will have the repair done.

[45Ricochet]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:


Auto manufactures are the new Microsoft. :B

Easy there big boy. Don't knock the hand that feeds some folks :W

[BenK]

Now this is getting interesting from a forensics point of view...one of my fav
tech topics !

Turtle is spot on with the throttle body and most all gassers have one. Even DI
with a turbo....for those who don't know what Turtle is talking about
here is a good link ICE throttle

The physics is that even with a turbo pressurizing the intake manifold...it still
draws air through the TB, which has a venturi to create a vacuum...unless the
Ford engineers removed that venturi in favor of a belt driven vacuum pump. Seems
brain dead to me, but there must have been some reason that we on the outside
don't know...yet. But gotta say...might be the same morons who decided to block
the turbo inter-cooler to reduce it's effectiveness in order to 'solve' the dew
point issue (water ingested into the ICE)...when boy racers know to drill a tiny
hole in the cold side tank of the inter-cooler...

Back on topic...have read and as usual...conflicting news in the early stages
of investigation...brake vac booster failed from brake fluid ingestion and/or the
MC was emptied of brake fluid by the vacuum system (both sounds like the basis
but the details need to be presented...which it will soon enough)

Brain dead because the throttle body has a venturi and is part of it...so no
cost...to then design in a belt driven vacuum pump...

The costing is way more than an already there venturi of any throttle body I've
ever touched/seen/read about/etc

Also, most vacuum assisted brake canisters has a NHTSA/DOT mandated number of
brake pedal actuation's AFTER loss of venturi vacuum. There is a reserve of
vacuum...and a one way vacuum valve to hold whatever vacuum is left
in the reserve reservoir...

The belt driven vacuum system should ALSO have this reserve vacuum ability and
wonder what happened there...a fail safe for both types of system

Then the tertiary safety...plain old brake pedal push and this is where there
is confusion in the articles I've found so far....there seems to be a loss of
brake fluid in the MC...therefore no matter how hard you push...there is no
fluid in the MC...to then transfer the pedal push to the brakes friction
materials...

Anyway...just initial thoughts till more data comes in...

[Bird_Freak]

BenK wrote:
Curious of those with the failure had integrated trailer brake controller

I don't see how that would make a difference. Problem seems to be seal on master leaking into booster.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

Lynnmor wrote:

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Wes Tausend wrote:
...

Turbo engines have no vacuum.

Wes
...

LOL

Not sure what you are laughing at. The itty, bitty Eco-Boost engine has no usable vacuum for the power brakes.

Because anytime you have one of these you have vacuum. And the EB has one of those. Just like cars of 100 years ago had. The EB has plenty of vacuum to run the brake system.

It's just that some crazy engineer thought it would be a good idea that when you had full boost pressure you had full power brakes. (Must have been a drag racer :B)

The whole brake issue is some supplier got ahold of some bad O rings or seals or did not do due diligence in putting together their brake system for Ford. Then they started to leak into the PB. Then things go down hill from there. Then you have a TSB or a recall to fix the problem.

Auto manufactures are the new Microsoft. :B

[bguy]

Vacuum assist failure is not brake failure. The brakes should work fine with or without assist. Just requires more effort.

[Wes_Tausend]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Wes Tausend wrote:
...

Turbo engines have no vacuum.

Wes
...

LOL

Good catch, Turtle. Should have said no usefull vacuum. Diesel and gas engines that don't use a throttle body have no vacuum at all.

Wes
...

[brulaz]

Apparently their was also an investigation into the 2011-2012 F150 EcoBs that use an electric vacuum assist pump.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/nhtsa-investigating-ford-f-150-for-reported-brake-failures

Dunno what the resolution of that was. I can't recall a recall notice.

In 2013 they switched to a belt driven vacuum pump which is the subject of the current investigation.

[Lynnmor]

Turtle n Peeps wrote:

Wes Tausend wrote:
...

Turbo engines have no vacuum.

Wes
...

LOL

Not sure what you are laughing at. The itty, bitty Eco-Boost engine has no usable vacuum for the power brakes.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

Wes Tausend wrote:
...

Turbo engines have no vacuum.

Wes
...

LOL

[Wes_Tausend]

...

Perhaps the turbo application means the vacuum brake booster doesn't work right or is SOP substituted altogether. Turbo engines have no vacuum. Most diesels use an electric vacuum pump or power steering hydraulic boost.

Wes
...

[jerem0621]

Flashman wrote:

jerem0621 wrote:
I own a Chrysler...not one recall notice has ever hit my mail box. Not a single one.

Interesting.

What does Chrysler have to do with catastrophic Ford brake failure?

Someone posted 5 Chrysler recalls...