Buyer's remorse??

[Herimpression]

Hi. I'm totally new to this site and RVING. Hubby is in the Navy and got orders to Virginia...we decided to take advantage of living on the other side of the country by traveling to all the neat places we've heard about. So buying a TT seemed like a no-brainer. We looked at everything from Class C to fifth wheel to ultralights. We decided to get a light TT so we didn't have to upgrade our vehicle. We have a 1500 suburban with a tow package that can pull 8100 pounds.

So after a year of looking we were in between the Keystone Bullet Premier 31BHPR or 34BHPR The bunk house and outdoor kitchen were requirements and both have them. So after a lot of thinking we picked the 34BHPR because it has more interior storage and we liked the kitchen layout with the island. (This was a really hard choice because the other model has an exterior door to the bathroom and it's 500 pounds lighter because it only has 2 slides we thought that was great too.) So, we put our down payment down and we are waiting for them to do the do the walk through with us next week when we take it home.

Now I'm waking up at night worried we picked the wrong one because of the island. I hadn't seen the inside with the slides pulled in until the day we bought it. When the slides are in you can't get to anything because the slides pull right up to the island and you would have to climb over it to get to the bunk house. And getting to anything in the kitchen or storage under the table isn't possible with slides in. So you can only get to the bathroom and master bedroom with slides in.

Is this going to be a big deal??? We are in Virginia and are planning on going all the way up to Maine and down to the Florida Keys. I'm scared I'll hate that I can't get to our stuff on long hauls. We usually pack a road trip cooler in the car when we travel so hubby doesn't think we'll need anything from the trailer when we're on the road. But I don't know since we're new to this. Please give me advice. I can still change my mind and buy the 31BHPR that doesn't have an island...the dealer will be mad...but we haven't signed on the dotted line yet. Thanks in advance for your help!

[Herimpression]

Gosh, it sounds like we can only do a pop up then. That wasn't on our radar because of the humidity here.

[SoundGuy]

Herimpression wrote:
Ok, if anyone still feels like reading this, how would the Keystone Outback Terrain 250trs work for our suburban???

Rear glide trailers like this Terrain aren't as popular as they were a few years ago but nonetheless do offer certain advantages, particularly a longer trailer in a shorter towing length. If there's any major drawback to this style of trailer it's lack of storage compared to conventional travel trailers that would have a front queen island bed with a large passthrough storage compartment and inside storage, both under the bed. That said, we seriously considered one ourselves but in the end opted for the conventional route instead.

The 2016 version of the 250TRS is a bit porky for you ... with a shipping weight of 5500 lbs you could expect this trailer to probably weigh somewhere around 5800 lbs with a battery or two on the tongue, propane in the tanks, the water heater tank filled, and enough fresh water reserve so the system is operational anytime, anywhere you may want to use it. To that you'd then add all your personal cargo which could vary considerably but with a family using it could easily hit 1000 lbs if you're not careful. Remember, this is everything you stuff into this trailer so realistically I'd suspect it wouldn't weigh any less than about 6500 lbs loaded and ready to camp, perhaps as much as 7000 lbs if you get reckless about what you expect to drag along with you. That means you're likely to see a gross tongue weight @ 13% of at least 850 lbs ... so do you have that much available payload once you account for the weight of everyone and everything else you load into the Sub? To answer that you need to weigh your truck as I previously described, until then you're just guessing.

JMO but having towed for 10 yrs with a GM 5.3L (and still doing it) I'd suggest looking for a trailer with a stickered dry weight of ~ 4500 lbs 'cause chances are once it's loaded and ready to go camping it's gross weight (GVW) is going to land somewhere around 5500 lbs (if you're really careful) to almost 6000 lbs (if you're not so careful). Gross tongue weight will end up somewhere around 750 lbs, just as it did with my 24' KZ Spree 240BH-LX that typically weighed ~ 5500 lbs loaded and ready to camp ... and I was careful. 😉

[Herimpression]

Lol. I'm still trying to learn how to use the site from my tiny phone screen.

[westend]

I've tried to post the math but the Forum software is wonky!

[Herimpression]

Ok, if anyone still feels like reading this, how would the Keystone Outback Terrain 250trs work for our suburban???

I ran getting a new truck through my mind...but quite a few people said they ended up getting 2 or 3 vehicles before they had the right combo...we can't spring for that unless one of us gets signed as a super model. Lol! So, back to reality, if we down size the trailer and get out camping we can keep notes on what we want to upgrade to when we can comfortably afford a big truck and a FW.

I'm trying to follow all the advice on the weights and hitches. I have a long way to go on completing understanding that. But from what picked up so far, the Outback Terrain 250trs seems like it would work. And it has some cool storage on it.

[RVcrazy]

We now have a 33' fifth wheel we tow with a newer 2015 3500 diesel. It is great for living space with a shorter towing length, but they cost $$$. Fifth wheels also cost more. I would suggest that your needs and wants will change over time. Start cheaper and stay within your budget for the next few years. You will be able to enjoy the experience more if you don't bite off more than you can chew! Kids cost money in ways you are just beginning to experience. You don't want to skip school clothes for a truck or trailer payment. Your days for a nice, big unit will come soon enough. Our kids never missed having a bigger trailer with more stuff. Now, they are grown and camp with their own families (so far, in tents).

[IdaD]

For your size family you can get a comfortable trailer in the wheelhouse of that Suburban. Look at some of the lightweight rear king slide models, with a bunkhouse in the front since you're planning on more kids. There are some compromises with those lighter trailers but they're still comfortable units and they'd be a good place to start.

If you really want a trailer the size of the one you contemplated originally, I'd advise you to trade the Suburban in on your favorite brand heavy duty truck look at fifth wheel models with comparable floor plans. I'm not saying there aren't some really nice travel trailers available, but fifth wheels are a lot nicer to tow down the road and you save on total vehicle length by having some of the trailer up over the bed.

But option A is going to be a lot cheaper, and since you've never had a trailer before it might be smart to take a smaller first step into this stuff.

[ReneeG]

MFL wrote:
In most cases a HD truck, towing a FW, will IMO be a better towing experience.

Jerry

Not necessarily. (to confuse matters even more) Using a Hensley Hitch is just like towing a fifth wheel. How do I know? Had one. F250 6.8L V10 towing a 30' Komfort at 10k fully loaded. 7mpg towing. When we got the FW, we upgraded to an F350 Diesel Dually DRW long bed and traded in the Hensley for a TrailerSaver FW hitch. 12mpg towing, even uphill.

[ReneeG]

Herimpression wrote:
I'm so confused I just want to go buy a dually!

Ooo, yeah, good idea, then you can tow much more!

[tdiller]

navydivercamper wrote:
Man this is a lot of info. Almost looks like we might have to go back to the drawing board and start over.

Navydivercamper look into the mwr stuff. They not only may have campers that can be rented but they also offer fantastic deals on places to camp. The kids may like the idea of sleeping in a tent while mom and dad sleep in the popup.

I stayed at the mwr facility down near Charleston when my daughter was in the Navy a beautiful campground and only $7 a night for a tent site. Then when she transferred to Norfolk and we were going on a family day on her ship she got us into a cabin out at Ft. Story that slept the four of us for about $75 a night.

Take advantage of all that mwr offers and you'll be surprised at what is available. I wish I had done more of that when I was in back in the late 70's.

[dwayneb236]

We got lied to by our initial trailer salesman. Said of course we could tow it. Had a F150 and the trailer was 35' long and 8000 lbs. Towed it ok but I was always driving with white knuckles. Upgraded to a F250 and it towed great. Now have gotten rid of the 250 and have a 350 diesel DRW. LOVE IT. Have a 40' fiver being built as we speak. We like shiny stuff in our family.

So after 3 trucks and 2 trailers I think we are where we want to be.

[2112]

I used to be in the "full access with slides in" crowd. It was a requirement when searching for our next TT. We reluctantly passed on a few nice floorplans due to this requirement.

While searching for TT's we came across a well built FW that we fell in love with. Island kitchen with lots of counter space, opposing LR slides that made the living space huge, large shower, etc. The only problem is the fridge is blocked with the slide in. We decided to scratch that requirement and just deal with it.

We soon discovered it's no big deal at all. Pop the slide out a little and you're there. Looking back I can't believe we put so much decision making weight in such a non-issue. Enjoying the floorplan and having the extra room when in camp far outweighs the fact that I have to hold a button for 5 seconds to get to the fridge while on the road.

You asked about a FW. Having owned 3 TT's and now a FW I have no plans to return to TT at this time. A FW is much easier to hitch, tow and has more storage. It has a more stable feel on the road. The only downside is dealing with the hitch in the bed and learning to back it up. I struggled with backing it up but I have since mastered this.

Enjoy your search and Thank You for serving our nation.

[2012Coleman]

DownTheAvenue wrote:
Internet search says the curb weight of your vehicle is from 5269 to 6074 lbs. Not knowing the actual weight (weighing it as previously suggested is wise), lets assume it weighs the maximum of 6074 lbs. Gross vehicle weight rating is 7,200 lbs. minus the curb weight of 6074 lbs. that leaves a payload of 1126 lbs. before you add fuel, passengers, and gear. Your vehicle has a 31 gallon gas tank times 6 lbs per gallon equals 186 lbs. now leaving available payload of 940 lbs. Two adults weigh about 300 lbs. now leaving available payload of 640 lbs. Kids and dog probably weigh about 200 lbs. now leaving available payload of 440 lbs. Another 100 lbs. for coolers, and other gear in the vehicle now leaves available payload of 340 lbs. The tongue weight of that trailer will overload your vehicle.

A 23 foot to 26 foot trailer will be a much better choice, will be more comfortable to tow, and will fit into many, many more campsites.

I agree with your payload figure - full tank or not as the weight on the sticker can be off by added options like step bars, and you do have a full tank of gas at points along the trip, but what 23 to 26 Ft TT would you suggest that has a tongue weight of 340lbs?

Simple math with your payload number using 13% of gross as tongue weight gives them a TT gross weight of 2615.4 lbs. That's a pop up.

For the op - you can find a CAT scale with the CAT Scale Locator

[SoundGuy]

DownTheAvenue wrote:
Internet search says the curb weight of your vehicle is from 5269 to 6074 lbs. Not knowing the actual weight (weighing it as previously suggested is wise), lets assume it weighs the maximum of 6074 lbs. Gross vehicle weight rating is 7,200 lbs. minus the curb weight of 6074 lbs. that leaves a payload of 1126 lbs. before you add fuel, passengers, and gear. Your vehicle has a 31 gallon gas tank times 6 lbs per gallon equals 186 lbs. now leaving available payload of 940 lbs.

As a general statement this isn't quite the case as most vehicle manufacturers, GM being one, include a full fuel tank in their vehicle base weight calculation so there's no need to doubly account for it. Regardless, the OP would be wise to do as I suggested earlier by weighing the vehicle with a full fuel tank, preferably with all the weight distribution parts sitting in the back of the truck at the time so the scale reading you get will be just that much more accurate. If you don't yet have a WD system add 100 lbs as an average to whatever scale reading you get. Once you have the scale reading subtract the weight of anyone who may be in the vehicle at the time and the resulting number will be your truck's real world base weight, regardless of what the door jamb sticker may indicate. Subtract this real world number from the truck's GVWR and you'll then have a definitive number that represents the truck's actual payload capacity - i.e. that which you will use to account for the weight of everything added to the truck when towing - people, cargo, and any trailer tongue weight transferred to the truck once the trailer coupler is dropped on to the hitch ball. With something this important you want to know what you're dealing with, not just be guessing, and weighing the truck as I've just described is the only way to know for sure.

Do this and my bet is the OP will realize his Sub is not as "tricked out" as he seems to believe but rather is typical of a light weight 1/2 ton truck - i.e. not a whole lot of actual payload capacity and certainly not anywhere near enough to allow him to use the truck's full GCWR. Assume he does weigh his truck, calculates the numbers, and after accounting for the weight of everyone and everything he may add to the truck in terms of cargo while towing he finds he has say 750 lbs of available payload capacity left to account for any tongue weight transferred to the truck from the trailer. If that 750 lbs represents 13% of the trailer's gross weight then that means the trailer's GVW - i.e. it's total weight, fully loaded and ready to camp - can't be any more than 5800 lbs, which is FAR less than the loaded weight of the trailer described at the beginning of this discussion. Bottom line - with this Sub as a tow vehicle the OP should restrict their choices to trailers weighing less than 6000 lbs fully loaded and ready to camp, or with a dry sticker weight of about 5000 lbs ... anything else would be just too much. 😞

This coming from one who has been towing for the last 10 years with GM's ubiquitous 5.3L gasser. 😉

[Halmfamily]

Herimpression wrote:
I'm so confused I just want to go buy a dually!

:D. Don't worry I felt the same way several years ago and wished I would have found the forum before I purchased my first "tow" truck.
I now own a dually but it is overkill for what you want.

A lot of us make big mistakes purchasing our fisrt RV's. Either too small truck or too small RV and end up trading out and up a year later. We are a prime example and did both on truck and RV.
They say buy your third RV first as it seems to take this many tries to find the right one.

We now own a dually and a 42 foot fifth wheel and have plenty of space and a capable tow vehicle. Do your due diligence and take your time.

Just absorb and disseminate the information given to you and youll find your answers. There so much knowledge here it's amazing.

Best of luck to you and your family. Remember have fun anx don't stress, this is what camping is all about.