Buying my Hemi WAS a good idea

[ib516]

When I first became a diesel owner (2003 or 2004), diesel was almost always 10-15% cheaper than regular unleaded where I live. Then came ULSD, and the economy moved on. Diesel became the same price as gas around here. Then a few months last winter, diesel was 10% more than reg unleaded - sometimes more.

Well, time marches on, and the tables have turned.

Yesterday:
Diesel was $1.299/L ($4.91/gal)
Unleaded was $0.899/L ($3.40/gal)

[transamz9]

RedRocket204 wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

RedRocket204 wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

RedRocket204 wrote:

transamz9 wrote:
Today's big gassers have just as much "pulling power" as the diesels.

How many big gassers carry around forced induction at altitude?

Your flatlander statement isn't 100% valid for everyone.

You make a good point but I have to ask. How much power is lost with the altitude? Remember that today's big gassers are making 20% more power then the last generations of force fed diesels and have more gears to choose from. We have to ask ourselves sometimes, how much power do "I" really need? If the OP's 3 gen Cummins did all he needed then why wouldn't a gas motor with 20% more power do? How much towing is really done in the high altitude? If they live there then most likely people will leave to to go RVing. If the don't live there then they usually only visit.

Like said earlier, it might not work for 100% of the people in this world but I doubt there is even 10% of the people in this world that ever see high enough elevation with their tv to even notice a difference in power. I very rarely even use all the power my engines can produce and I would say there are a lot of poeple that can say the same thing.

This is not an absolute but will give you a general idea - Braking HP Loss at Altitude Calculator

You are correct that probably about 10% tow at altitude with regularity but my point being that blanket statements are not correct for the entire towing population.

I live at 8k feet and travel from 5600 to 8k sometimes 5 days a week...but that is mostly unloaded but is still affected by altitude. When I tow, it is from 8k to ???, many times being higher or over multiple passes.

I would actually like to see a big gasser with forced induction but understand that is a niche market.

Beings you need and have the most powerful truck made, mind sharing what you drive so us flat landers know what we need to bring to the table if we head out your way? I mean you know, I would hate to get out there and not be able to pull the hill.

Sorry, but not going to partake in your attempt at belittlement.

Just wanted to point out what may work for you won't necessarily work for the next guy...you know, the whole blanket statement thing? Not sure why you took such offense to it...lighten up a little.

I'm not trying to belittle. It's just not that often that I'm able to pick the brain of someone that tows in the hardest towing environment to tow in the country. I just would like to know what you do it with is all.

Just a few years ago the diesels were at what the Hemi is with a with the altitude handicap. If these diesels worked for the people you speak of then, why wouldn't they work now?

[MM49]

kohldad wrote:
ib516, glad you are happy with yours. I'm making about the same move as you. When researching and calculating, the 6.4 made more sense for me too. I'm no longer towing heavy but am carrying heavy so needed the payload capacity. One look at the new diesel on a chassis cab revealed all of those sensors and emissions item which just yelled $$$$$$$$$$$ to me in the future after warranty runs out. The gasser will be a lot cheaper to repair if necessary.

I do have to correct you (or was it someone else?) that today's gassers pull just as good as today's diesels. That statement is wrong. But from everything I'm reading, today's gassers pulls just as well as the diesels we are giving up.

In regards to the Ike Gauntlet pull, I have no worries as the system was designed to reduce long term failure on the drivetrain. Notice that the rpm was held constant. My first thought was when they hit the steeper grade right before the tunnel, it would slow down but instead held the same rpm which showed it was computer holding it on. No need to run the engine back up to redline just to upshift, loose rpm in 2nd, drop back down to 1st then repeat. As soon as the grade eased off, the computer realized due to throttle level to maintain speed that it would be able to continue accelerate in 2nd, it let the rpms run up and then shift to 2nd and keep on going. Think it was some very smart programming on their engineers.

Really looking forward to when I finally get mine and start putting it to use.

Don't worry about the Gauntlet and the Ike tests. I own a 6.4l Longhorn and the 6.4l doesn't give up. I can't say what was wrong with the test vehicle or drivers, but I can tell you that the 6.4l pulls as hard as the diesels at both low and high speeds. The only time the diesel walks away from the 6.4l is mid range highway speeds. The 6.4l is the ultimate pickup truck engine. I am still thrilled with mine.
MM49

[Bedlam]

transamz9 wrote:
HAHAHA!!! Flat lander. That's funny. Have you even been in Ky? We may not have the altitude but I will put our hills up against anyone's and I'm not talking interstate. I have been on hills that I have had to stop on and spin my tires on blacktop taking back off and believe it or not it didn't take full throttle to do it.

The power is there, you just might have to slow down to find it.;)

I don't know whether you have read many of my posts or not but there probably ain't a bigger diesel head on these forums than me but even I know when something will work or not.

Most of us die hard diesel heads will preach about the towing power of our trucks and then as soon as we can turn them up for more. HAHAHA! I know I did and it's not because I needed more power I have other reasons. I tow my rig at the same speed and the same way as I did before the new found power. Fact is all of these trucks now days have way more than enough power to get'er done bone stock. The includes gas and diesel.

I used to tow a 4000+ lb boat over the mountains with a Mazda G6 4-cylinder gasoline engine (121 hp & 149 lb-ft) - It was up to the task each time, but it was slow and only getting single digit MPG averages. Although it was reliable and consistent, you would never describe crossing mountain passes as relaxing with most of the drive in second or third of the available five gears and the engine spinning at peak horsepower. I made due with that truck until I increased my tow weight three fold which resulted in a truck with a three fold in engine output (which also happened to be a turbo diesel). Those passes I pulled many times before became a casual drive and surprisingly so did the Rockies. Although I did pull 2000 lbs through the Rockies with my G6, I would not have attempted it with my boat.

KY has some reasonable inclines. If your current setup could handle those routes with 10-20% derated horsepower, then you could visit most of the west coast. If this same setup can handle those same hills with 20-30% less horsepower, you will be able to comfortably travel the Rockies.

[kohldad]

ib516, glad you are happy with yours. I'm making about the same move as you. When researching and calculating, the 6.4 made more sense for me too. I'm no longer towing heavy but am carrying heavy so needed the payload capacity. One look at the new diesel on a chassis cab revealed all of those sensors and emissions item which just yelled $$$$$$$$$$$ to me in the future after warranty runs out. The gasser will be a lot cheaper to repair if necessary.

I do have to correct you (or was it someone else?) that today's gassers pull just as good as today's diesels. That statement is wrong. But from everything I'm reading, today's gassers pulls just as well as the diesels we are giving up.

In regards to the Ike Gauntlet pull, I have no worries as the system was designed to reduce long term failure on the drivetrain. Notice that the rpm was held constant. My first thought was when they hit the steeper grade right before the tunnel, it would slow down but instead held the same rpm which showed it was computer holding it on. No need to run the engine back up to redline just to upshift, loose rpm in 2nd, drop back down to 1st then repeat. As soon as the grade eased off, the computer realized due to throttle level to maintain speed that it would be able to continue accelerate in 2nd, it let the rpms run up and then shift to 2nd and keep on going. Think it was some very smart programming on their engineers.

Really looking forward to when I finally get mine and start putting it to use.

[RedRocket204]

transamz9 wrote:

RedRocket204 wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

RedRocket204 wrote:

transamz9 wrote:
Today's big gassers have just as much "pulling power" as the diesels.

How many big gassers carry around forced induction at altitude?

Your flatlander statement isn't 100% valid for everyone.

You make a good point but I have to ask. How much power is lost with the altitude? Remember that today's big gassers are making 20% more power then the last generations of force fed diesels and have more gears to choose from. We have to ask ourselves sometimes, how much power do "I" really need? If the OP's 3 gen Cummins did all he needed then why wouldn't a gas motor with 20% more power do? How much towing is really done in the high altitude? If they live there then most likely people will leave to to go RVing. If the don't live there then they usually only visit.

Like said earlier, it might not work for 100% of the people in this world but I doubt there is even 10% of the people in this world that ever see high enough elevation with their tv to even notice a difference in power. I very rarely even use all the power my engines can produce and I would say there are a lot of poeple that can say the same thing.

This is not an absolute but will give you a general idea - Braking HP Loss at Altitude Calculator

You are correct that probably about 10% tow at altitude with regularity but my point being that blanket statements are not correct for the entire towing population.

I live at 8k feet and travel from 5600 to 8k sometimes 5 days a week...but that is mostly unloaded but is still affected by altitude. When I tow, it is from 8k to ???, many times being higher or over multiple passes.

I would actually like to see a big gasser with forced induction but understand that is a niche market.

Beings you need and have the most powerful truck made, mind sharing what you drive so us flat landers know what we need to bring to the table if we head out your way? I mean you know, I would hate to get out there and not be able to pull the hill.

Sorry, but not going to partake in your attempt at belittlement.

Just wanted to point out what may work for you won't necessarily work for the next guy...you know, the whole blanket statement thing? Not sure why you took such offense to it...lighten up a little.

[time2roll]

I think I am going to never own a diesel. I will go a little slower up those hills and be just fine. Don't worry I will pull over to let y'all pass. :B

[transamz9]

RedRocket204 wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

RedRocket204 wrote:

transamz9 wrote:
Today's big gassers have just as much "pulling power" as the diesels.

How many big gassers carry around forced induction at altitude?

Your flatlander statement isn't 100% valid for everyone.

You make a good point but I have to ask. How much power is lost with the altitude? Remember that today's big gassers are making 20% more power then the last generations of force fed diesels and have more gears to choose from. We have to ask ourselves sometimes, how much power do "I" really need? If the OP's 3 gen Cummins did all he needed then why wouldn't a gas motor with 20% more power do? How much towing is really done in the high altitude? If they live there then most likely people will leave to to go RVing. If the don't live there then they usually only visit.

Like said earlier, it might not work for 100% of the people in this world but I doubt there is even 10% of the people in this world that ever see high enough elevation with their tv to even notice a difference in power. I very rarely even use all the power my engines can produce and I would say there are a lot of poeple that can say the same thing.

This is not an absolute but will give you a general idea - Braking HP Loss at Altitude Calculator

You are correct that probably about 10% tow at altitude with regularity but my point being that blanket statements are not correct for the entire towing population.

I live at 8k feet and travel from 5600 to 8k sometimes 5 days a week...but that is mostly unloaded but is still affected by altitude. When I tow, it is from 8k to ???, many times being higher or over multiple passes.

I would actually like to see a big gasser with forced induction but understand that is a niche market.

Beings you need and have the most powerful truck made, mind sharing what you drive so us flat landers know what we need to bring to the table if we head out your way? I mean you know, I would hate to get out there and not be able to pull the hill.

[ib516]

I am a flat lander, but I always tow to, and through the Canadian Rockies. I have also towed my RV to, and through Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, and Utah.

I am very familiar with mountain towing.

I am also a hiker, and mountain climber. I have an altimeter in my watch. The highest piece of paved roadway in Canada is the Highwood Pass at 7200'. The highest I have ever been with my RV in tow is just over 8000' in Wyoming IIRC.

So, I guess what I am saying is that until and unless I go to Colorado, I really don't care much how my truck would perform at 11,000'. It does just fine at 7 and ~8000'.

[RedRocket204]

transamz9 wrote:

RedRocket204 wrote:

transamz9 wrote:
Today's big gassers have just as much "pulling power" as the diesels.

How many big gassers carry around forced induction at altitude?

Your flatlander statement isn't 100% valid for everyone.

You make a good point but I have to ask. How much power is lost with the altitude? Remember that today's big gassers are making 20% more power then the last generations of force fed diesels and have more gears to choose from. We have to ask ourselves sometimes, how much power do "I" really need? If the OP's 3 gen Cummins did all he needed then why wouldn't a gas motor with 20% more power do? How much towing is really done in the high altitude? If they live there then most likely people will leave to to go RVing. If the don't live there then they usually only visit.

Like said earlier, it might not work for 100% of the people in this world but I doubt there is even 10% of the people in this world that ever see high enough elevation with their tv to even notice a difference in power. I very rarely even use all the power my engines can produce and I would say there are a lot of poeple that can say the same thing.

This is not an absolute but will give you a general idea - Braking HP Loss at Altitude Calculator

You are correct that probably about 10% tow at altitude with regularity but my point being that blanket statements are not correct for the entire towing population.

I live at 8k feet and travel from 5600 to 8k sometimes 5 days a week...but that is mostly unloaded but is still affected by altitude. When I tow, it is from 8k to ???, many times being higher or over multiple passes.

I would actually like to see a big gasser with forced induction but understand that is a niche market.

[transamz9]

N-Trouble wrote:

transamz9 wrote:

RedRocket204 wrote:

transamz9 wrote:
Today's big gassers have just as much "pulling power" as the diesels.

How many big gassers carry around forced induction at altitude?

Your flatlander statement isn't 100% valid for everyone.

You make a good point but I have to ask. How much power is lost with the altitude? Remember that today's big gassers are making 20% more power then the last generations of force fed diesels and have more gears to choose from. We have to ask ourselves sometimes, how much power do "I" really need? If the OP's 3 gen Cummins did all he needed then why wouldn't a gas motor with 20% more power do? How much towing is really done in the high altitude? If they live there then most likely people will leave to to go RVing. If the don't live there then they usually only visit.

Like said earlier, it might not work for 100% of the people in this world but I doubt there is even 10% of the people in this world that ever see high enough elevation with their tv to even notice a difference in power. I very rarely even use all the power my engines can produce and I would say there are a lot of poeple that can say the same thing.

Your stuck in your little flat lander world. Come out West sometime and try pulling 12k+ lb around with a gasser... Peak HP doesn't mean squat.

HAHAHA!!! Flat lander. That's funny. Have you even been in Ky? We may not have the altitude but I will put our hills up against anyone's and I'm not talking interstate. I have been on hills that I have had to stop on and spin my tires on blacktop taking back off and believe it or not it didn't take full throttle to do it.

The power is there, you just might have to slow down to find it.;)

I don't know whether you have read many of my posts or not but there probably ain't a bigger diesel head on these forums than me but even I know when something will work or not.

Most of us die hard diesel heads will preach about the towing power of our trucks and then as soon as we can turn them up for more. HAHAHA! I know I did and it's not because I needed more power I have other reasons. I tow my rig at the same speed and the same way as I did before the new found power. Fact is all of these trucks now days have way more than enough power to get'er done bone stock. The includes gas and diesel.

[BenK]

Yes...most think in "absolute" terms...meaning that the OP made a statement of
"his" decision and how well it fits "HIM"...then folks reading this take it meaning that
"everyone" should likewise believe so...

Won't touch the HP/Torque issue...I've had a couple of my engineers not understand
how that works...

[N-Trouble]

transamz9 wrote:

RedRocket204 wrote:

transamz9 wrote:
Today's big gassers have just as much "pulling power" as the diesels.

How many big gassers carry around forced induction at altitude?

Your flatlander statement isn't 100% valid for everyone.

You make a good point but I have to ask. How much power is lost with the altitude? Remember that today's big gassers are making 20% more power then the last generations of force fed diesels and have more gears to choose from. We have to ask ourselves sometimes, how much power do "I" really need? If the OP's 3 gen Cummins did all he needed then why wouldn't a gas motor with 20% more power do? How much towing is really done in the high altitude? If they live there then most likely people will leave to to go RVing. If the don't live there then they usually only visit.

Like said earlier, it might not work for 100% of the people in this world but I doubt there is even 10% of the people in this world that ever see high enough elevation with their tv to even notice a difference in power. I very rarely even use all the power my engines can produce and I would say there are a lot of poeple that can say the same thing.

Your stuck in your little flat lander world. Come out West sometime and try pulling 12k+ lb around with a gasser... Peak HP doesn't mean squat.

[N-Trouble]

ib516 wrote:

N-Trouble wrote:
Yawn...

You don't buy a diesel to save money. You buy a diesel because you want/need the pulling power and the overall towing experience. PERIOD...

IF THAT is what makes you feel better about your purchase, then great. But the whole gas/diesel which is going to save me $$ argument/justification is all nonsense.

How do you know what I buy my vehicles for? Just wondering.

...because I actually DID buy my previous diesels to save money. Diesel fuel used to be cheaper than unleaded where I live; and the diesel trucks used to get significantly better mpg than the gassers offered back then. Now we have a tq and hp war going on between the big 3 diesels, and the emissions garbage bolted to them make them all far less reliable and efficient than they used to be. The gasser I have now also has MDS (4 cyl mode) that it can and does drop into when hwy cruising.

Considering my truck only tows a trailer 2 months of the year, and even then it's part time, the towing performance is not nearly as important to me as overall ownership experience, and the lack of check engine lights caused by a relatively short commute in cold weather.

You can't apply your situation, reasoning, or usage to everyone.

Pre-emissions (2007) when diesel options were 5-6k premium, diesel was cheaper, and diesel trucks got better mileage there was an argument for cost savings. Those days have long been gone. If anyone is buying a diesel today solely based on the belief they are saving money is simply fooling themselves.

[N-Trouble]

transamz9 wrote:

N-Trouble wrote:
Yawn...

You don't buy a diesel to save money. You buy a diesel because you want/need the pulling power and the overall towing experience. PERIOD...

IF THAT is what makes you feel better about your purchase, then great. But the whole gas/diesel which is going to save me $$ argument/justification is all nonsense.

Today's big gassers have just as much "pulling power" as the diesels.

"Pulling power" does not equal peak HP figures in my book. Maybe yours...

[transamz9]

RedRocket204 wrote:

transamz9 wrote:
Today's big gassers have just as much "pulling power" as the diesels.

How many big gassers carry around forced induction at altitude?

Your flatlander statement isn't 100% valid for everyone.

You make a good point but I have to ask. How much power is lost with the altitude? Remember that today's big gassers are making 20% more power then the last generations of force fed diesels and have more gears to choose from. We have to ask ourselves sometimes, how much power do "I" really need? If the OP's 3 gen Cummins did all he needed then why wouldn't a gas motor with 20% more power do? How much towing is really done in the high altitude? If they live there then most likely people will leave to to go RVing. If the don't live there then they usually only visit.

Like said earlier, it might not work for 100% of the people in this world but I doubt there is even 10% of the people in this world that ever see high enough elevation with their tv to even notice a difference in power. I very rarely even use all the power my engines can produce and I would say there are a lot of poeple that can say the same thing.