Changing transmission fluid

[docnascar]

My 2010 silverado is creeping up on 30k miles. I pretty much only use it for towing or hauling something. Tranny temps while towing are typically around 200-220 and some minor runs at 235 on large grades.

I've always been the person that never changes tranny fluid on my vehicles. Probably won't on any of my cars going forward. However, this truck is the "work horse" and I'm pondering if I should, since its being used harder. I say harder because the max tow rating of this truck is 4700lbs and my camper is ~3500lbs.


Thoughts?

[LarryJM]

Charlie D. wrote:


The OP asked about a Chevrolet transmission not a Ford. If he reads and follows the manual it says Chevy does not recommend a flush. He will be better off following his manual than getting conflicting opinions from owners of the BIG 3. Now I have expressed my opinion.:)

I just love folks that say this or that says this or that and fail to provide any verifiable source to backup their for what I can only call unsubstantiated statements and in your specific case I think your contention that the owner's manual specifically states not to flush the transmission is incorrect and that specific recommendation is no where in the owner's manual for the specific vehicle we are talking about which is a 2010 Silverado.

I actually downloaded the 2010 Silverado Owner's Manual which was 626 pages and no where in those 626 pages does it mention anything about flushes and the transmission. You failed to provide any reference except some reference to the owner's manual so please give us the page nr. and topic title where you find your contention that the transmission should not be flushed or I would advice folks to disregard your post as your personal opinion and nothing more. BTW I have already agreed that certain types of flushes are not IMO a good way to service your transmission. The document I used came from
2010 Silverado Owners Manual and the manual has the part number of 25854757 A First Printing.

I converted this document to a PDF and then did a FULL search on the word flush and what it does say not to "FLUSH" is the engine oil, but does say to "FLUSH" the cooling system.

What is does say on page 6-23 is

Automatic Transmission Fluid
(4-Speed Transmission)
When to Check and Change Automatic
Transmission Fluid

A good time to check the automatic transmission fluid
level is when the engine oil is changed..
Change the fluid and filter at the intervals listed in
Scheduled Maintenance on page 7?3 and be sure to
use the transmission fluid listed in Recommended
Fluids and Lubricants on page 7?13.

A similar procedure is found for the 6 speed auto on page 6-26

Automatic Transmission Fluid
(6-Speed Transmission)
When to Check and Change Automatic
Transmission Fluid
It is usually not necessary to check the transmission
fluid level. The only reason for fluid loss is a
transmission leak or overheating the transmission.
If you suspect a small leak, then use the following
checking procedures to check the fluid level. However,
if there is a large leak, then it may be necessary to have
the vehicle towed to a dealer/retailer service department
and have it repaired before driving the vehicle further.
Notice: Use of the incorrect automatic transmission
fluid may damage the vehicle, and the damages may
not be covered by the vehicle's warranty. Always
use the automatic transmission fluid listed in
Recommended Fluids and Lubricants on page 7?13.
Change the fluid and filter at the intervals listed in the
Maintenance Schedule. See Scheduled Maintenance
on page 7?3. Be sure to use the transmission fluid
listed in Recommended Fluids and Lubricants on
page 7?13.

Please note in both these they say "FLUID CHANGE" and what I have described doing with with the tranny itself or with the proper machine is exactly that a "FLUID CHANGE". It's not as is normally referred to as a "flush" nor is it a "drop the pan" and fill so what I have described is if you want to follow the owner's manual the closest you can get to a "fluid change". As I have already provided documentation that simply dropping the pan and refilling only changes 5 of the about 12qts in one Chevy tranny and I don't call that by any stretch of the imagination a "FLUID CHANGE". If you do O.K. have at it, but realize what you are actually getting and accomplishing which like one member that thought that got 75% of the fluid changed was way off in his numbers and is basically like the example I gave is doing an engine oil change and putting most of the old oil back in and only adding very little (i.e. less than 50%) new oil.

I leave it to the Chevy owners to figure out the best way to do an effective "FLUID CHANGE".

45Ricochet and 352 your posts are IMO not helpful and do nothing to help or add to the topic being discussed here and I am at a loss to understand why folks like you post the useless type info that you do. I think you should be here to help folks and leave whatever personal agendas and what I can only call "childish" comments such as "Personally I only flush when going #2" you might have at home where they belong.

Finally the apple and oranges statement is questionable here since regardless of make transmissions in their cooling systems are very similar and all have a line out which goes thru the coolers and then a return line in and what I have described for my 4R100 is disconnecting the return line and letting the pump in the transmission push all the fluid thru the internal passages in the tranny and the TC and collect that fluid from the return line, replacing the lost fluid via filling the pan before it runs the tranny dry. This procedure or something very similar should be applicable to many other makes and models of transmissions, but one needs to consult the people actually knowledgeable to get the specifics which at this point no one that has posted in this thread including me has shown that specific level of expertise.

About the only thing I can add in closing is Q.E.D.

Larry

[352]

45Ricochet wrote:

Charlie D. wrote:

The OP asked about a Chevrolet transmission not a Ford. If he reads and follows the manual it says Chevy does not recommend a flush. He will be better off following his manual than getting conflicting opinions from owners of the BIG 3. Now I have expressed my opinion.:)

X2
Great advice since we are comparing apples and oranges. Personally I only flush when going #2 :B

Perfect answer. Case closed

[45Ricochet]

Charlie D. wrote:

The OP asked about a Chevrolet transmission not a Ford. If he reads and follows the manual it says Chevy does not recommend a flush. He will be better off following his manual than getting conflicting opinions from owners of the BIG 3. Now I have expressed my opinion.:)

X2
Great advice since we are comparing apples and oranges. Personally I only flush when going #2 :B

[Charlie_D_]

LarryJM wrote:

352 wrote:

LarryJM wrote:

BurbMan wrote:

LarryJM wrote:
04 service manual for the 4l60-4l65-E says 5 quarts for pan removal. Complete flush, including converter is approx. 12 quarts.

Thanks for clarifying. You can change your transmission fluid any way you like :B

No problem and unlike some others just doing a pan drop and fill is sort of like doing an engine oil change and putting 2/3s of the old oil mixed with 1/3 new oil back into the engine.:S Not what I consider a good maintenance practice.:R

But as you said one can do the maintenance whatever way they want.:W

Larry

WOW. Some people just assume. Just ask someone that does the transmission work at a dealership which one is best. He will explain why and you will never flush it again or maybe you will.

Then you need to find another dealership and not listen to the every day JOE doing routine transmission work. Remember I said flush using the pump in the tranny which is simply a complete "FLUID EXCHANGE" and not an external machine like the ever popular B&M one. Doing a power flush, back flush, or using chemicals is IMO a NO NO. There are fluid exchange machines that do it correctly. What I advocate is a procedure developed by Mark Kovalsky specifically for the 4R100 over on THEDIESELSTOP who was a FORD Tranny Engineer for many years and is what I consider a TRUE EXPERT in trannies in general and FORD trannies specifically. This procedure should be adaptable for other transmissions since it's fairly straight forward and very simple.

Larry

The OP asked about a Chevrolet transmission not a Ford. If he reads and follows the manual it says Chevy does not recommend a flush. He will be better off following his manual than getting conflicting opinions from owners of the BIG 3. Now I have expressed my opinion.:)

[352]

LarryJM wrote:

352 wrote:

LarryJM wrote:

BurbMan wrote:

LarryJM wrote:
04 service manual for the 4l60-4l65-E says 5 quarts for pan removal. Complete flush, including converter is approx. 12 quarts.

Thanks for clarifying. You can change your transmission fluid any way you like :B

No problem and unlike some others just doing a pan drop and fill is sort of like doing an engine oil change and putting 2/3s of the old oil mixed with 1/3 new oil back into the engine.:S Not what I consider a good maintenance practice.:R

But as you said one can do the maintenance whatever way they want.:W

Larry

WOW. Some people just assume. Just ask someone that does the transmission work at a dealership which one is best. He will explain why and you will never flush it again or maybe you will.

Then you need to find another dealership and not listen to the every day JOE doing routine transmission work. Remember I said flush using the pump in the tranny which is simply a complete "FLUID EXCHANGE" and not an external machine like the ever popular B&M one. Doing a power flush, back flush, or using chemicals is IMO a NO NO. There are fluid exchange machines that do it correctly. What I advocate is a procedure developed by Mark Kovalsky specifically for the 4R100 over on THEDIESELSTOP who was a FORD Tranny Engineer for many years and is what I consider a TRUE EXPERT in trannies in general and FORD trannies specifically. This procedure should be adaptable for other transmissions since it's fairly straight forward and very simple.

Larry

WOW WOW and WOW

[LarryJM]

352 wrote:

LarryJM wrote:

BurbMan wrote:

LarryJM wrote:
04 service manual for the 4l60-4l65-E says 5 quarts for pan removal. Complete flush, including converter is approx. 12 quarts.

Thanks for clarifying. You can change your transmission fluid any way you like :B

No problem and unlike some others just doing a pan drop and fill is sort of like doing an engine oil change and putting 2/3s of the old oil mixed with 1/3 new oil back into the engine.:S Not what I consider a good maintenance practice.:R

But as you said one can do the maintenance whatever way they want.:W

Larry

WOW. Some people just assume. Just ask someone that does the transmission work at a dealership which one is best. He will explain why and you will never flush it again or maybe you will.

Then you need to find another dealership and not listen to the every day JOE doing routine transmission work. Remember I said flush using the pump in the tranny which is simply a complete "FLUID EXCHANGE" and not an external machine like the ever popular B&M one. Doing a power flush, back flush, or using chemicals is IMO a NO NO. There are fluid exchange machines that do it correctly. What I advocate is a procedure developed by Mark Kovalsky specifically for the 4R100 over on THEDIESELSTOP who was a FORD Tranny Engineer for many years and is what I consider a TRUE EXPERT in trannies in general and FORD trannies specifically. This procedure should be adaptable for other transmissions since it's fairly straight forward and very simple.

Larry

[352]

LarryJM wrote:

BurbMan wrote:

LarryJM wrote:
04 service manual for the 4l60-4l65-E says 5 quarts for pan removal. Complete flush, including converter is approx. 12 quarts.

Thanks for clarifying. You can change your transmission fluid any way you like :B

No problem and unlike some others just doing a pan drop and fill is sort of like doing an engine oil change and putting 2/3s of the old oil mixed with 1/3 new oil back into the engine.:S Not what I consider a good maintenance practice.:R

But as you said one can do the maintenance whatever way they want.:W

Larry

WOW. Some people just assume. Just ask someone that does the transmission work at a dealership which one is best. He will explain why and you will never flush it again or maybe you will.

[LarryJM]

BurbMan wrote:

LarryJM wrote:
04 service manual for the 4l60-4l65-E says 5 quarts for pan removal. Complete flush, including converter is approx. 12 quarts.

Thanks for clarifying. You can change your transmission fluid any way you like :B

No problem and unlike some others just doing a pan drop and fill is sort of like doing an engine oil change and putting 2/3s of the old oil mixed with 1/3 new oil back into the engine.:S Not what I consider a good maintenance practice.:R

But as you said one can do the maintenance whatever way they want.:W

Larry

[BurbMan]

LarryJM wrote:
04 service manual for the 4l60-4l65-E says 5 quarts for pan removal. Complete flush, including converter is approx. 12 quarts.

Thanks for clarifying. You can change your transmission fluid any way you like :B

[CKNSLS]

pronstar wrote:
<--- another vote for dropping the pan and changing the filter.

Never been a fan of power-flush exchange machines.
Any fluid that goes into my truck, is poured from a bottle that I buy.

Depends what the factory says is OK. Apparently flushes are OK for the six speeds in the Silverados according to another poster here(I haven't checked). I can tell you that I had a Honda Accord and power flushes were not recommenced.

I have a standard 100K power train warranty from the factory (as anybody else who bought their truck new). I figure the dealer isn't going to perform any operation on the truck that will cost them a repair on their dime.

[pronstar]

<--- another vote for dropping the pan and changing the filter.

Never been a fan of power-flush exchange machines.
Any fluid that goes into my truck, is poured from a bottle that I buy.

[CKNSLS]

Vulcaneer wrote:
Follow your manufacturers specification for severe duty. Drain pan and torque converter, new filters.

To those that say change when the fluid starts to look dark and smells a little burnt. Isn't that like saying wait until the tranny just starts to fail? Once the clutches start to wear, changing the fluid is not going to add material to the clutches.

When it turns slightly dark your transmssion isn't going to go out. As far as smelling burnt, that isn't the case either. Now if it's REALLY DARK and smells REALLY BURNT that's another story.

It's not going to look "factory fresh" after 30,000 miles. But that's not saying it needs to be replaced either.

[Vulcaneer]

Follow your manufacturers specification for severe duty. Drain pan and torque converter, new filters.

To those that say change when the fluid starts to look dark and smells a little burnt. Isn't that like saying wait until the tranny just starts to fail? Once the clutches start to wear, changing the fluid is not going to add material to the clutches.

[docnascar]

I don't plan to change it myself. Will probably let Chevrolet do it when I get around 50k.

I was curious and called the dealer. They said they offer both methods to customers. Drop pan only or Full flush method (which includes dropping pan, internal filter, and full flush. This is the recommended). I will do full flush. ~$300.

[LarryJM]

BurbMan wrote:
IMO, it's more valuable to drop the pan and change the filter than it is to flush 100% of the fluid. You will have 3/4 of the fluid replaced by dropping the pan, and the remaining 25% of teh old fluid won't hurt anything.

I disagree and don't think your numbers are correct and quoting numbers that are complete guesses are dangerous and often inaccurate as I think this is the case here so I have provided at least one reference in my reply here that contradicts your assertion. According to another thread LINK

04 service manual for the 4l60-4l65-E says 5 quarts for pan removal. Complete flush, including converter is approx. 12 quarts.

Therefore your simple pan drain and refill will get less than 1/2 of the old fluid out and probably closer to only 30 to 40% and not anywhere near your 75%. In fact I bet you will be on the low end in your 8.1 vehicle since I bet the TC alone has a lot of fluid. My 4R100 FORD tranny as an example holds 17qts and the pan around 5 to 6 with almost 12qt being in the torque converter.

IMO doing a complete fluid change is the only way to go and is very simple by disconnecting the rear line on the 4R100 and using the trans itself to pump out the old fluid. This way you change upwards of 95%+ of the old fluid. I'm not expert in other makes of trannies, but I bet there are procedures similar to what we FORD 4R100 owners use that will change an extremely large percentage of fluid.

Larry