Diesel "loudness"?

[GordonThree]

Do diesel trucks get louder as they age, or were ones built years ago that much louder than today's diesel?

I test drove one recently, a 2016 ram 2500, and it was rather quiet... only a bit louder than my 2013 ram gasser.

But most every diesel that I come across driving by my house, or at a campground, sounds more like a semi tractor than a private use vehicle.

Why is that? Are most diesel owners modifying their trucks for more "performance" and removing sound/emission control equipment? Has there been some major improvement in quieting down diesel only discovered in the last few years?

[bqcooker]

New ones my be quieter, but nothing beat the sound of a 7.3!!!! My dad has a stock 2002 7.3 CCDWLB and I love the way it sounds. But I love the sound of any diesel and would love to have one soon.

[wilber1]

Harley owners are the worst. I like the sound of a V twin as much as anyone but not at 115 dB. Don't know what's the matter with those guys.

[WTP-GC]

hvac wrote:

Regarding overall noise of vehicle, what happened to decebil meter violations?? Motorcycles included. I mean local agencies could really generate revenue by just enforcing existing laws already on the books.

I think most LEO's (and citizens) would rather avoid the petty stuff and focus on criminal activities of a more substantial nature. I also believe that many municipalities are moving away from the laws dealing with vehicle noises.

[hvac]

I am actually surprised how noisy our new eco diesel is. Not in a bad way, you know its a diesel when it starts up anyway.

Regarding overall noise of vehicle, what happened to decebil meter violations?? Motorcycles included. I mean local agencies could really generate revenue by just enforcing existing laws already on the books.

[Kevin_O_]

High Sierra wrote:
Problem is they are going to be around as you can't wear them out.

I don't see that to be a "problem " at all!!! 🙂

[High_Sierra]

Yep, old trucks are louder. Problem is they are going to be around as you can't wear them out. 500,000 miles diesels are out there working and pulling every day. I don't know if newer diesel trucks last that long. Old ford powerstrokes and cummins seem to be the loudest, engine noise not exhaust noise.

[coolbreeze01]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
This is FACT. The 1994 Dodge/Cummins trucks that were made prior to 1/1/1994 DID NOT have a CAT, the ones that were made 1/1/94 and thru mfg date of 12/31/1997 DID have a CAT. The pre Cat 94's had a section of exhaust pipe where the Cat would go starting 1/1/94.

So my question is it a "sin" to remove the CAT and buy the section of pipe that Chrysler has sitting on their shelves and install in place of the cat on the ones that came with a CAT?

My 94 came with a CAT. I had my Dodge dealer install a 4" turbo back exhaust with a BD exhaust brake.

My CAT was in the bed with the rest of the factory exhaust pipe when I picked up the truck.

I ran the PU 14 years legally in CA and sold it here.

[Grit_dog]

mkirsch wrote:
It's a good thing, with mainstream media traditionally depicting diesel vehicles as "noisy, smelly, and messy." Such treatment really hurts the development and availability of these amazing powerplants.

Lol. I don't think that's really the reason...

[Kevin_O_]

I love the sound of my 7.3L that's in my 2001 F350. My truck didn't even come with a catalytic converter for emissions. In stock form she was a SLUG so I installed a tune for more power with a bigger exhaust and intake. Unfortunately it is quite loud and it does blow some black smoke under load but she runs strong and she is paid for! I will take that over a $60,000 bill for a new quiet truck any day! 😉

[wilber1]

Source

Clean Air Act Civil Penalties





The maximum
penalty
for violations
of
the tampering
prohibition when committed
by
any person
other
than
a manufacturer is $2,500
per vehicle,
and
the
maximum
penalty for violations
of
the
defeat device
prohibition is $2,500
per device.

[2oldman]

WTP-GC wrote:
Why are people so concerned about something so trivial?

Now I think you're trolling.

[WTP-GC]

jfkmk wrote:

From the EPA website:

Defeat devices. It is a violation of the CAA to manufacture, sell, or install a part for a motor vehicle that bypasses, defeats, or renders inoperative any emission control device. For example, computer software that alters diesel fuel injection timing is a defeat device. Defeat devices, which are often sold to enhance engine performance, work by disabling a vehicle's emission controls, causing air pollution. As a result of EPA enforcement, some of the largest manufacturers of defeat devices have agreed to pay penalties and stop the sale of defeat devices.

As for the last part of your arguements, I wholeheartedly agree. The people who believe their "privilege" to modify or defeat an emission control device outweighs someone else's "privilege" or even "right" to breathe clean air is indeed very sad and quite disturbing.

The worst are the sub humans that "roll coal" as they pass a hiker, bicyclist or a vehicle they deem doesn't pollute enough so they spew toxic fumes at them.

The statute in which your statement is derived comes from the subsection referring to manufacturers, dealers, and auto shops. Nothing in there about private party folks. Section 203-a (or "b") or something like that. Pretty much concurrent with most state statutes.

I've lived my entire life without ever seeing anyone intentionally "roll coal" as they pass someone. A few youtube videos doesn't make this a factual common occurrence. I never understand why folks always come back and claim this as being a problem.

Bedlam wrote:
With full disclosure, my feeling is if you can tune an engine to fall withing its emission limits, it should not matter what device you use (following the intent of the law). The Clean Air Act is what has given the EPA power to fine owners and restrict their deleted vehicles.

Emission Standards: https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/

Sale of deleted vehicles: http://www.hardworkingtrucks.com/about-dpf-delete/

Fines for deleted vehicles: http://www.hardworkingtrucks.com/special-report-dpf-deletes/

1 link to standards and 2 links to conjecture. Nothing resolved.

At dispute here is the context of the statement: is it always illegal to modify and/or remove emissions equipment? The original posts which frustrated me are those that claimed folks who modify their trucks are ignorant, arrogant, egotistical, and just plain inconsiderate. There were no passes given...if you modify, you're one of these types of people. What is the point of saying things like this? Why are people so concerned about something so trivial? I hope that I never become someone with such a pessimistic point of view.

[Me_Again]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
This is FACT. The 1994 Dodge/Cummins trucks that were made prior to 1/1/1994 DID NOT have a CAT, the ones that were made 1/1/94 and thru mfg date of 12/31/1997 DID have a CAT. The pre Cat 94's had a section of exhaust pipe where the Cat would go starting 1/1/94.

So my question is it a "sin" to remove the CAT and buy the section of pipe that Chrysler has sitting on their shelves and install in place of the cat on the ones that came with a CAT?

Simple answer is YES you broke the law! My 2001.5 did not have a CAT and was under 10K GVWR so it was not against the law to modify the exhaust. Time box yes! Stage 1 injectors that were noted to run cleaner than the stock ones??? Different turbo??? Are they going to go after these trucks? Depends on where you live! If they raise the hood on my BIL 2008 RAM and see the EGR stuff gone and block plates bolted in its place he might have a problem, even though he bought it used that way. I believe the seller gave him a box of stuff that was removed.

Our son is a part owner of a large wholesale exhaust company. They no longer stock any delete pipes or parts. They have retail clients that have been visited by the EPA and requested to cease and desist doing mods and pointed to individual vehicles that they had worked on. Fines have not YET trickled down to individuals or shops, they have been fining the large manufacturers, trying to stop it at the source.

Chris

[Bedlam]

With full disclosure, my feeling is if you can tune an engine to fall withing its emission limits, it should not matter what device you use (following the intent of the law). The Clean Air Act is what has given the EPA power to fine owners and restrict their deleted vehicles.

Emission Standards: https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/

Sale of deleted vehicles: http://www.hardworkingtrucks.com/about-dpf-delete/

Fines for deleted vehicles: http://www.hardworkingtrucks.com/special-report-dpf-deletes/

[jfkmk]

WTP-GC wrote:
Some of you could do yourselves good by reading the statutes. In general, they can be summarized as follows:
You cannot sell a vehicle that's been tampered with (exceptions exist, of course)
A motor vehicle dealer cannot legally perform emissions deletions without having a waiver signed for off-road use.
An entity cannot sell items specifically to defeat an emission systems (except for off-road use).
You cannot tamper with gasoline powered vehicles that are used on-road.
You cannot have continuous visible emissions longer than 5 seconds unless under acceleration, lugging, deceleration.

There are other things, but that's the gist of it. I've yet to read a statute that prohibits the on-road use of a diesel truck in which the owner has modified/removed emissions equipment. Not to say that one doesn't exist, but I've not seen it. There's been tons of discussion of this for years, but no one has ever seemed to find a statute that says if you (private person) perform your own work to modify your vehicle, then you are in violation of the law. I could be proven wrong, which I would actually welcome. I'm not against knowing the truth, even if it means I'm 100% incorrect.

There's no advice implied above, and I'm just referring to the statutes I've read (both federal and state). Your state might have different rules/regs, so that's up to you.

Note that this entire argument originated with the personal vendetta of someone who believes their privileges outweigh someone else's, which is the saddest and most arrogant position to take.

From the EPA website:

Defeat devices. It is a violation of the CAA to manufacture, sell, or install a part for a motor vehicle that bypasses, defeats, or renders inoperative any emission control device. For example, computer software that alters diesel fuel injection timing is a defeat device. Defeat devices, which are often sold to enhance engine performance, work by disabling a vehicle's emission controls, causing air pollution. As a result of EPA enforcement, some of the largest manufacturers of defeat devices have agreed to pay penalties and stop the sale of defeat devices.

As for the last part of your arguements, I wholeheartedly agree. The people who believe their "privilege" to modify or defeat an emission control device outweighs someone else's "privilege" or even "right" to breathe clean air is indeed very sad and quite disturbing.

The worst are the sub humans that "roll coal" as they pass a hiker, bicyclist or a vehicle they deem doesn't pollute enough so they spew toxic fumes at them.