Diesel vs gas for truck campers?

[Devocamper]

Have posted a few questios phere on the truck camper forum asking for help in down sizing to a TC and thanks for the help so far, I have been going over the weights of the TC's that we have looked at and all are over weight for my truck(07 Chevy 3500HD long bed Ext cab dual rear wheel diesel) but I do understand I can add suspension upgrades and maybe handle the bigger units but looking at replacing the truck and with the gas trucks having more capacity my question is do the gas 3500 or 350's handle the load of a heavy TC ? I know about towing and my current diesel is great for pulling around a 15k fifth wheel but do you need the diesel to have a good truck setup for a TC . Some of the newer 3500's and 350 have much higher load capacities when they have the gas motor. I think Chevy is around 7200 and ram may be higher with gvwr's around 13000 compared to my 07 at 11400. Thanks for any help and info
Mike

[Grit_dog]

^Understand Devo, that the addional "payload" capacity of a gasser is sucked up in a diesel, up to the truck class gvw limit, by the engine weight, which is pretty much centered squarely over the front axle, affecting the unladen weight over the rear axle little to none. And the camper will affect the weight on the front axle minimally at most.
If you add up the stated curb weight and the payload, on the truck spec charts, it pretty much always ends up to be exactly what the gvw is for that class. 9900, 10k, 12k, 14k.
Take a new Ford or GM as an example. Is it plausible that a3500 is exactly 2000lbs more capable than a 2500 with identical components everywhere except the rear springs? And yet when you load the 2200 lbs or whatever the cap is in a 2500 it barely sags. This tells you that the "gvw" of that 2500 is limited by the class rating and not the weakest link in the truck. This is even more evident when looking at dually ratings vs 2500. Couple more factors in play when you step up to a dually but conceptually similar.

Not to say that you can plop 5000lbs in the bed of a 2500 and it's all cool because it's the same chassis and drivetrain as a dually. But, the real world differences of the high $ hard to upgrade components are likely the same or at least way more capable than the puny class 2 load rating leads you to believe.

[Devocamper]

billtex wrote:

Devocamper wrote:
This has gone a little off track but I get the idea,Thanks for all the replies. I have a diesel DRW now and love it but it just cant handle the weight I am thinking about , so that said i think it is going to be gas ...

Mike, I have to tell you...in the TC world that just doesn't make sense. The choice of gas vs diesel really is not going to affect your ability to carry that camper.
Tire/wheel/axle ratings are your concern.

You will likely exceed the factory payload rating...get over that if you plan to carry a TC. The rest of us have and are happily out TCing!

It's a reality we all struggled with at first.

Good luck...and check your tires/wheels/axles! If you like diesel-get diesel.

Bill

Thanks Bill, I am just trying to get as much payload as I can if I am going to be looking at a new truck for a TC and it looks like on the current models there is at least 300 or more lbs of available payload with the gas motors on any brand some configurations even more and as said here before current gas motors can handle the weight. My diesel tows 15K no problem and the pin weight barely squats the rear end but that's much less weight on the rear axle than a TC my pin weight is about 2800lbs, I have found camper load guides for Ford and Ram but have been unable to find that information for GM, GM gives payload but not camper loads which never match on anything I have read so far . I am going to post a question asking if anyone has seen a publication or guide from GM referencing camper weights. thanks again for the help
Mike

[billtex]

Devocamper wrote:
This has gone a little off track but I get the idea,Thanks for all the replies. I have a diesel DRW now and love it but it just cant handle the weight I am thinking about , so that said i think it is going to be gas ...

Mike, I have to tell you...in the TC world that just doesn't make sense. The choice of gas vs diesel really is not going to affect your ability to carry that camper.
Tire/wheel/axle ratings are your concern.

You will likely exceed the factory payload rating...get over that if you plan to carry a TC. The rest of us have and are happily out TCing!

It's a reality we all struggled with at first.

Good luck...and check your tires/wheels/axles! If you like diesel-get diesel.

Bill

[Bedlam]

I would try to avoid either. Auxiliary bags work well for variation in load but adding spring rate or preloading the existing springs work better.

[Vinsil]

As cool as the factory air ride is... I believe I read it had a 3000k limit and that won't work for the huge TC your considering.

[Devocamper]

This has gone a little off track but I get the idea,Thanks for all the replies. I have a diesel DRW now and love it but it just cant handle the weight I am thinking about , so that said i think it is going to be gas but the new question is since I will have too order the truck the way I want it to get the load capacity it seems like it will be a ford or a ram because they have the higher load ratings , if you ordered a ram would you go for the factory rear air load leveling system for around $1500.00 or wait and put after market air bags ? may not need them but it wouldn't hurt things, a ram can be configured for 14000,GVWR and the ford for 13900 , ford works out to be 7200 lbs and the ram 5998 lbs from I can gather so far , so factory air ride or aftermarket ? Thanks again for the help and info
Mike

[Buzzcut1]

Steve

It's a non commercial Class A, no log books and no medical certificate required. just the written test and a drive test with the trailer hooked up. hardest part is the pre trip walk around. most folks miss dumb stuff like honking the horn for the inspector ( you have to show that everything works).

[Steve_in_29]

Kayteg1 wrote:
Don't trust forum in legal aspects as even with honest replies, you always find too many variations.
In CA all diesels below 14,000lb GWVR 1998 or newer need smog.
All the rest is exempt.
The exempt year for older gasoline engines keeps on moving every few years, so it is 1975 today, but next year it MIGHT be 1980.
Go to dmv.ca.gov and check yourself.

No they REPEALED the "Rolling Exemption" of the smog laws YEARS ago. Locking in the 1975MY as the end for smog.

Plus it's a 14,500lb cut off for diesels and smog.

Another peculiarity in CA is that driver's of 3/4Ton pickups pulling a trailer where the GCW exceeds 10,001lbs are technically required to have a Commercial Drivers License.

The drivers of the newer crop of 1 Ton Duallies where the GCWR is over 14,500lbs also fall into the CDL rule under Federal DOT rules.

Both the last two examples really come into play when you are using the pickup you bought and put your company's logo on to be able to write it's cost off on your taxes to tow your trailer to the beach.

[Kayteg1]

Don't trust forum in legal aspects as even with honest replies, you always find too many variations.
In CA all diesels below 14,000lb GWVR 1998 or newer need smog.
All the rest is exempt.
The exempt year for older gasoline engines keeps on moving every few years, so it is 1975 today, but next year it MIGHT be 1980.
Go to dmv.ca.gov and check yourself.

[Steve_in_29]

skyhammer wrote:
To be accurate, you only have to have a smog check if you sell a used vehicle,not if you buy one. Also if you bought the vehicle new or used, regardless of the year, you don't have to have a smog check if you keep the vehicle.
San Diego County have a population of 3 million and only a certain zip codes require smog checks.

ANY vehicle newer then 1975 whether bought new or used requires a smog check when sold (or have had one done within the last 90 days).

The dealer/seller is responsible for the vehicle passing smog. So while it's true the buyer doesn't need to do a separate smog check, if the vehicle doesn't pass smog when the seller gets it done the new owner can not get a permanent registration until it does so.

Also while the vehicle might not have to do the bi-annual smog check it is STILL subject to all applicable smog laws and is required (though it's not enforced) to maintain it's OEM smog parts. While they are rare now, roadside smog checks (tailpipe and visual) have been used in the past in CA.

[Vinsil]

For fun I did a quarter mile run today. Figured I'd share in this thread.

It was 73 degrees, ran in 4x4 high, boosted launch @12 psi. 14.7 at 97 mph. This was on my street tune as my trans won't hold any higher, so 425 hp at the wheels.

Just another toy, never ran it like that before. Won't do it again, I can see where it would lead to look stupid amounts of money and broken parts!

[Kayteg1]

Diesel smog check in CA is just formality, so if you still have mufflers on the truck and original emission equipment, you don't need to spend more than 15 minutes at the station.
No, I am not happy with smog checks, but I am not happy with headaches I am getting following Oregon trucks neither.

[skyhammer]

To be accurate, you only have to have a smog check if you sell a used vehicle,not if you buy one. Also if you bought the vehicle new or used, regardless of the year, you don't have to have a smog check if you keep the vehicle.
San Diego County have a population of 3 million and only a certain zip codes require smog checks.

[Reddog1]

Steve_in_29 wrote:

skyhammer wrote:

Reddog1 wrote:
Unfortunately, in California you have to smog 1998 and newer, even the 12-valve. To avoid the smog check, you must have a 1997 or older. I have had my 1996 12-valve since 2001. Never had any issues with it. I recently bought my 2004 DSL, so time will tell.

I too had a 1986 GMC dually. Had it for over 15 years. My only real complaint with it mechanically was it had no shame in using gas.

Wayne

That is just not true, it may be true for your county but not mine(Humboldt).
I have a lot of vehicles all bought new that run in age from 1985-2013.
I have never had to have a smog check done on any of them.
Now, If I decide to sell one of them, I, the seller must pay for a smog check for the new owner, other than that there are no smog checks...at least for now.
If I wish to sell one of my vehicles and I have to install some parts to enable it pass smog, such a catalytic converter etc.. the new owner can take those parts off if they like and not have to worry because there won't be another smog required until they sell the vehicle again.

The counties where there is no smog are VERY sparsely populated so for the other 99.99 percent of CA residents smog is a fact of life.

I agree with Steve on this. I will add, it does apply to all in California, as per the part of the post in red type. So, it is true.

[Steve_in_29]

skyhammer wrote:

Reddog1 wrote:
Unfortunately, in California you have to smog 1998 and newer, even the 12-valve. To avoid the smog check, you must have a 1997 or older. I have had my 1996 12-valve since 2001. Never had any issues with it. I recently bought my 2004 DSL, so time will tell.

I too had a 1986 GMC dually. Had it for over 15 years. My only real complaint with it mechanically was it had no shame in using gas.

Wayne

That is just not true, it may be true for your county but not mine(Humboldt).
I have a lot of vehicles all bought new that run in age from 1985-2013.
I have never had to have a smog check done on any of them.
Now, If I decide to sell one of them, I, the seller must pay for a smog check for the new owner, other than that there are no smog checks...at least for now.
If I wish to sell one of my vehicles and I have to install some parts to enable it pass smog, such a catalytic converter etc.. the new owner can take those parts off if they like and not have to worry because there won't be another smog required until they sell the vehicle again.

The counties where there is no smog are VERY sparsely populated so for the other 99.99 percent of CA residents smog is a fact of life.