JIMNLIN,
Diesel here has not been cheaper than regular. At best it hovers right about at the same cost and as I noted, this winter went to $.40 greater at a number of stations.
You might expect to see more diesels at a truck stop wouldn't you? Don't diesel owners sometimes like to get their diesel there feeling it may be fresher?
I agree that in some parts of the country a gas rig is less in demand but around here I see plenty of 8.1s and 6.0s. I believe GM sells quite a lot more of the gas rigs nationally than the DMax but then too the demand for the DMax I think outstrips the supply. But even if GM were able to supply enough it remains to be seen if that situation would change.
But whatever. I think a lot of people want diesels today simply because they have become popular and might I add, a lot of guys feel the vitamin T swell in them when they think of a big bad turbo diesel..say it ain't so? I see big bad t-diesels all day long that no sooner see much hauling or towing than a compact does. That tells me something.
All I'm saying is that I have a resonably large and heavy trailer and my gas rig handles it very easily. The 8.1 engine is built tough for the very reason that 20% of output is aimed for the marine market. Check it out, you can read about the 8.1 in many marine sites in various states of tune. It's BIG engine and in standard truck form it's pretty mildly tuned. But I do get better mileage than older BBs and even some of the smaller gas engines when towing.
I don't care if people buy diesels, that's a personal issue. But again, the whole diesel thing really gets way out of whack on this forum.
Diesel here has not been cheaper than regular. At best it hovers right about at the same cost and as I noted, this winter went to $.40 greater at a number of stations.
You might expect to see more diesels at a truck stop wouldn't you? Don't diesel owners sometimes like to get their diesel there feeling it may be fresher?
I agree that in some parts of the country a gas rig is less in demand but around here I see plenty of 8.1s and 6.0s. I believe GM sells quite a lot more of the gas rigs nationally than the DMax but then too the demand for the DMax I think outstrips the supply. But even if GM were able to supply enough it remains to be seen if that situation would change.
But whatever. I think a lot of people want diesels today simply because they have become popular and might I add, a lot of guys feel the vitamin T swell in them when they think of a big bad turbo diesel..say it ain't so? I see big bad t-diesels all day long that no sooner see much hauling or towing than a compact does. That tells me something.
All I'm saying is that I have a resonably large and heavy trailer and my gas rig handles it very easily. The 8.1 engine is built tough for the very reason that 20% of output is aimed for the marine market. Check it out, you can read about the 8.1 in many marine sites in various states of tune. It's BIG engine and in standard truck form it's pretty mildly tuned. But I do get better mileage than older BBs and even some of the smaller gas engines when towing.
I don't care if people buy diesels, that's a personal issue. But again, the whole diesel thing really gets way out of whack on this forum.
Does all this mean there's no reason to buy a diesel? Not at all. But let's not make more out of it than exists.
Thank you and goodnight.
Sounds a bit like some good old fashion diesel envy...
Just jokingโฆ very good points to consider and well written.
I want to (again) point out that which seems to be glossed over by diesel fans.
Depending on where you live diesel isn't always cheaper (here) than regular and this winter here it has been $.40 higher, almost taking away any cost savings through extra mileage.
Comparing an older V8 (gasser) to a new turbo diesel and then proudly stating there's no comparison. Since when would anyone go shopping between an older truck/engine with a new one? It may be a comparison for the person trading up but anyone shopping new out there has the new BB gas engines as well as the diesels to compare. They are rated more closely on towing ability.
Recent gas engines are more fuel efficient than the older ones. Time hasn't stopped on the gas side of things either. In fact, GM is said to be looking at a line of V10s for a broad range of vehicles, including their trucks. If diesels were the only way to go why would they spend millions to do so? (Ford and Dodge boys can keep your comments to yourselves)
The initial extra cost of a diesel is substantial. Why does that seem to be ignored while proudly proclaiming that mileage is better?
On the subject of resale value it matters on how much percentage retained of the original cost. Not just that a diesel will have a higher resale value. Take a look at any vehicle valuation guide and you'll see that they both retain a similar percentage of the original cost down the road. Maybe not the exact same percentage but nothing shocking that I've seen. Just as a more expensive Cadillac will cost more initially than a Chev it will most likely be worth more at trade-in.
On the issue of engine longevity, GM for example, rates both the 8.1 gas engine and Duramax as 200K engines. That sounds about the same to me. Just because an engine is diesel does not mean you're going to see 300k miles roll around. When's the last time you had a vehicle that long? Would you likely want to be towing that nice new trailer with a 15 or 20 year old diesel? 300,000 miles is 15k each and every year for 20 years. Yes, some people rack up considerable miles but do you? Would you?
If you trade your diesel to supposedly take advantage of superior trade-in value wouldn't you likely be forfeiting that longevity point?
Look anywhere on this forum. Some people touting the longevity issue have had several diesels over a relatively short period of time. Again. look at the number of PSD 7.3 owners who decided to buy a 6.0 or the Dodge owners who just had to have an H.O. Cummins when their only a few years old truck was still serviceable. Did they recoup the diesel's extra cost with fuel savings or take advantage of extra engine longevity?
Remember too, even with a fairly heavy trailer full throttle is rarely needed to get down the road. Full throttle is the only time any engine will produce maximum power (at any given rpm). Too many people like to bench race and state factory torque and HP figures. That's great but that's not what gets to the ground. I have plenty of power. I barely have my foot in it running down the open road. The engine just purrs along, quiet and smooth. I can get about 9.5 mpg average for a tank while towing. I know that diesels return only a few mpg more for the same trip with similar weight/style of trailer. I do not get 6 or 7 mpg like some insist I must because for no other reason than that I have a "gasser". You can expect a diesel to return from 20 to 40% greater fuel mileage than a comparable gas engine. That's all well and good but proudly stating that one gets 15 mpg in town somehow pales when many sensible cars can return twice that mileage. Do you fire up your big heavy-duty truck just to pick up some washers and light bulbs at the hardware store? That's a waste of fuel no matter what's under the hood.
Does all this mean there's no reason to buy a diesel? Not at all. But let's not make more out of it than exists.
Thank you and goodnight.
Depending on where you live diesel isn't always cheaper (here) than regular and this winter here it has been $.40 higher, almost taking away any cost savings through extra mileage.
Comparing an older V8 (gasser) to a new turbo diesel and then proudly stating there's no comparison. Since when would anyone go shopping between an older truck/engine with a new one? It may be a comparison for the person trading up but anyone shopping new out there has the new BB gas engines as well as the diesels to compare. They are rated more closely on towing ability.
Recent gas engines are more fuel efficient than the older ones. Time hasn't stopped on the gas side of things either. In fact, GM is said to be looking at a line of V10s for a broad range of vehicles, including their trucks. If diesels were the only way to go why would they spend millions to do so? (Ford and Dodge boys can keep your comments to yourselves)
The initial extra cost of a diesel is substantial. Why does that seem to be ignored while proudly proclaiming that mileage is better?
On the subject of resale value it matters on how much percentage retained of the original cost. Not just that a diesel will have a higher resale value. Take a look at any vehicle valuation guide and you'll see that they both retain a similar percentage of the original cost down the road. Maybe not the exact same percentage but nothing shocking that I've seen. Just as a more expensive Cadillac will cost more initially than a Chev it will most likely be worth more at trade-in.
On the issue of engine longevity, GM for example, rates both the 8.1 gas engine and Duramax as 200K engines. That sounds about the same to me. Just because an engine is diesel does not mean you're going to see 300k miles roll around. When's the last time you had a vehicle that long? Would you likely want to be towing that nice new trailer with a 15 or 20 year old diesel? 300,000 miles is 15k each and every year for 20 years. Yes, some people rack up considerable miles but do you? Would you?
If you trade your diesel to supposedly take advantage of superior trade-in value wouldn't you likely be forfeiting that longevity point?
Look anywhere on this forum. Some people touting the longevity issue have had several diesels over a relatively short period of time. Again. look at the number of PSD 7.3 owners who decided to buy a 6.0 or the Dodge owners who just had to have an H.O. Cummins when their only a few years old truck was still serviceable. Did they recoup the diesel's extra cost with fuel savings or take advantage of extra engine longevity?
Remember too, even with a fairly heavy trailer full throttle is rarely needed to get down the road. Full throttle is the only time any engine will produce maximum power (at any given rpm). Too many people like to bench race and state factory torque and HP figures. That's great but that's not what gets to the ground. I have plenty of power. I barely have my foot in it running down the open road. The engine just purrs along, quiet and smooth. I can get about 9.5 mpg average for a tank while towing. I know that diesels return only a few mpg more for the same trip with similar weight/style of trailer. I do not get 6 or 7 mpg like some insist I must because for no other reason than that I have a "gasser". You can expect a diesel to return from 20 to 40% greater fuel mileage than a comparable gas engine. That's all well and good but proudly stating that one gets 15 mpg in town somehow pales when many sensible cars can return twice that mileage. Do you fire up your big heavy-duty truck just to pick up some washers and light bulbs at the hardware store? That's a waste of fuel no matter what's under the hood.
Does all this mean there's no reason to buy a diesel? Not at all. But let's not make more out of it than exists.
Thank you and goodnight.
I sure like my diesel... It is our first and we will continue with a diesel far into the future. Towing we are getting 16-17mpg at 62mph (hand calc'd).
