Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[mgratner]

Tankerhed,

Physics is physics. Any naturally aspiritited engine looses 3% every 1000ft of increase in elevation. Fuel injection makes no difference. Only way to overcome the loss on a gas engine is with a supercharger on your gas engine.

Cigar Mike

[rsh_757]

Tankerhank wrote:
yes it will pull a serious 10,000 lbs. My 5'er tops out at a little over 8,000 lbs and it pulls it like it wasn't there..

Like it wasn't there? First off, with that truck, you feel every move that fiver makes. Probably. Chucks pretty good even if you are using airbags.

To add, after experiencing what the new Tundra tows a boat like that weighs less than half of your fiver I know you are giving that truck some serious pedal and going through gears like nobody's business.

Just like any other gasser towing 8000#'s.

Of course, you may drive on 100 percent flat roads with no bumps for miles. Then, I suppose your definition of "like it wasn't there" could be pretty grey.

[Tankerhank]

socalschlegels wrote:
I am not doubting your word but does a 5.7 Toyota have that much more towing capcity than a
dodge 4.7? My capacity is 6200 with the 3.5x rear end. I am thinking of
postponing the big truck payments by installing 4:10 gears. Has anyone else done this?

My 2000 4.7 V8 Tundra was rated at only 7,500 lbs with 3.90 rear end. I sold it recently.

This 2007 Tundra makes a serious jump in towing capacity with a much larger V8, 6 spd tranny, 4.30 rear gears... yes it will pull a serious 10,000 lbs. My 5'er tops out at a little over 8,000 lbs and it pulls it like it wasn't there.

Changing the rear gears in your truck would helps but don't know how much.

[Tankerhank]

mgratner wrote:
Tankerhank,

All I can say in response to your post is "DREAM ON". Unles you have a turbo charger on your engine you lose 3% per 1000 ft. of altitude. That sir, is a fact. I also doubt that your particularly configured Tacoma will haul 10,300 pounds.

Cigar Mike

Sorry I don't drive a Taco, my 380+ HP 400+ ft/lbs of torque 5.7L TUNDRA is configured to pull over 10,000 lbs. I still think your are smoking something if you believe there is a 3% power loss/gain, if it loses going up in elevation it must increase as you go down in elevation, physics is physics... that is if I was buying. I drive up in the mountains quite often with the 5'er, elevations from 2,000' to over 8,000', by your "facts" my motor would lose what 24% of its power (8 X 3% = 24%), that is like almost a 100 HP loss, I sure hope you don't pretent to be an engineer for a living. Like said before with carbs there is some truth to your BS but not with computer controlled fuel injection, not saying there isn't a loss at higher elevations just saying your 3%/1000' is dribble, but then maybe the MOTOR in your truck does lose that much power... I know I get behind some real snails going up the mountain until I can get around them when a passing lane comes up. 😉


http://www.cdxetextbook.com/fuelSys/gasoline/fund/stoichiometricratio.html

It is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but it isn't fact just because you said it.

[Tarantula]

For Srockwood's and Jagt's information, the high compression on a diesel is necessary to generate enough heat for igniton of the fuel. Also, diesels have not always been turbo-charged. The first Cummins put in trucks (called a "JT") was naturally aspirated as was the NT220. The diesels that Oldsmobile & Cadillac used in the '70s weren't turbo-charged.

[mgratner]

Tankerhank,

All I can say in response to your post is "DREAM ON". Unles you have a turbo charger on your engine you lose 3% per 1000 ft. of altitude. That sir, is a fact. I also doubt that your particularly configured Tacoma will haul 10,300 pounds.

Cigar Mike

[Mike_E_]

Just returned from an 11,500Km...err, roughly 7K mile trip from the West Coast to Ottawa and back. Headed East through USA and returned mostly through Canada via Edmonton.

'Burb 8.1L/4.10 pulling a 7K TT averaged 8MPG(calculated) @ 62-65MPH, well, mostly 65.;) Could have gone faster on the Interstates, but 65 was good enough for me. Never had a want for more power as she just cruised along in OD @ 2100RPM. Down to 3rd for the slight I-State grades, except for in Montana on the day I actually had a tailwind...yeehaw. Most passes were handled at around 3000RPM @ 50MPH. Again, could have punched it up to 4200RPM and screamed up to the top, but I'm not much of a fan of teetering on the edge of controlling a 50 foot long rig in the fast lane.. I'm on holidays, right!!

Was happy with the mileage numbers but when the 'hankerin' for a 5th wheel overtakes me I'll probably be heading the diesel route, unless I can find a nice 2500HD 8.1L.:B

Cheers,

Mike

[SRockwood]

I've got a CTD-powered Dodge 2500 and love it, but I had to point some misnomers out... 😄

Jackjagt wrote:
Diesel engine use very high compression to extract all the energy, gasoline engines must use lower compression to get the available energy.

Gasoline also uses spark plugs to ignite the fuel. A direct injection gasoline engine has a more complete burn than a direct injection diesel.

Jackjagt wrote:
The high compression Diesel engine also therefore has excellent torque characteristics.

This has more to do with turbocharging and a really low redline than it does with compression ratio. The low redline means you don't need to worry as much about piston speeds, so you run a longer stroke. You also don't have to worry about a 6000rpm-wide powerband, so you tune the cams with high ramp angles, low duration and reasonably high lift. The low valvetrain speeds also mean you can run lighter springs (less drag) and higher ramp angles.

Jackjagt wrote:
Torque equals acceleration, horsepower equals top speed.

Torque and horsepower are related. Low end power equals low end acceleration, top end power equals top end acceleration. High torque, low horsepower and long gears can mean the same top speed as high horsepower and short gears.

Either way, powerband and gearing determine acceleration.

Jackjagt wrote:
We now seem to be at the point where the Diesel fuel fraction is fully utilised and thus Diesel fuel prices are rising.

I think this had more to do with the more expensive refining process that comes with ULSD than it does with demand or utilization. As it sits, we refine a smaller percentage of our oil for diesel than some other countries do.

[Jackjagt]

A barrel of oil is refined into several energy 'fractions'. One that is heavier and higher in energy, is Diesel, another, lighter, is gasoline.
Diesel fuel contains more energy than gasoline.
Diesel engine use very high compression to extract all the energy, gasoline engines must use lower compression to get the available energy. The high compression Diesel engine also therefore has excellent torque characteristics.
Torque equals acceleration, horsepower equals top speed.
Diesels are expensive to manufacture, gas engines much less so.
Both engines have their place but Diesels are preferred and becoming more popular.
We now seem to be at the point where the Diesel fuel fraction is fully utilised and thus Diesel fuel prices are rising.

My motorhome has a Cat C7, and the 'toad' is a VW TDI.

[socalschlegels]

I am not doubting your word but does a 5.7 Toyota
have that much more towing capcity than a
dodge 4.7? My capacity is 6200 with the 3.5x rear end. I am thinking of
postponing the big truck payments by installing 4:10 gears. Has anyone else done this?

[Tankerhank]

Its sort of like those diapers... depends!

[Rvndave]

If your thinking of getting a 5er I recommend the one ton dually with the Cummins. Fifth wheels add a lot more weight to the truck vs a TT, 25% of the 5er's weight should be on the hitch vs 15% for the TT. The extra power will put a grin on your face and when you check MPG the grin will fade to a big smile.

[Hannibal]

The Hemi's tow up hill fine and dandy at close to sea level. I've said many times, if we lived in or towed in the mountains much, I'd have my 5th Cummins Ram. All naturally aspirated engines lose about 3% of their power for every 1k ft of elevation. Doesn't seem like much but it adds up quick and you'll feel it. Thankfully, I've not seen below 7.2mpg towing but we've not been to the Rockies. The Hemi is a great engine for what it is and at 111k miles of hard work, mine is still running like new. A tow beast for the mountains it isn't. Your engine probably wasn't straining. It was probably just running in it's powerband. Won't hurt the engine at all but grates on the nerves for those with rpmaphobia. The Hemi's exhaust mellows the sound of the valvetrain at higher rpm so it's not as grating but it still runs in 2nd gear up the steeper ones. My constructive comment would be for your area, you'd be much happier to bypass the Hemi and get a 2500HD Cummins Ram for towing much of anything over 5k lbs.

[socalschlegels]

Wow! What a discusion. I just got back from our first long distance trip from socal to Gallup, NM. The only negative thing was that we found out that my dodge ram 1500 w/ 4.7 and 3.57? Rear end was grosly under powered! with 5 adults, all the gear and 21' TT I believe i was still under the 6200# towing capcity. I averaged 5 & 7 mpg! Seemed like I was in 2nd gear doing 55-60 the whole trip! So I now want a truck I can trust to tow without straining so much. The obvious first question is diesel or gas? I am planning for retirement so I may step up to a fifth wheel. But I see here that some of you are towing large trailers with hemis. Do they really go up the hills ok? What kind of mileage are you getting? I get 12 mpg around town without towing. My friends f250 diesel gets 16-18 and 12 mpg towing. I could have cut my gas bill in half and got there 4 hours faster. Any CONSTRUCTIVE comments will be appreciated.
Thanks

[Ace_]

I usually don't even bother to calculate my under-85mph mileage, so I wouldn't know my 75-mph mileage, but I bet it's better than my 95+ mph towing mileage. It's nice speed laws vary but around here if I saw a truck with that much weight traveling at 75mph, on flats, up, down grades I'd just move over and say, "I hope he realizes I'm driving a gasser so he can keep track of how many he passed!" Good argument for the gasser...buy a gasser and you won't be able to drive faster than your angels can fly 😉

Edited to add, I'm just plain to scared of getting a ticket to drive that fast towing.