Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[bluenote]

RollingRockTX wrote:
What's this thread about?

Wasting bandwidth.

[RollingRockTX]

So, I jump ship in Hong Kong and make my way over to Tibet, make my way as a looper.

What's this thread about?

[Devo_the_dog]

woodrow wrote:
...By the time you are done doing 1st grade math us diesel folks will be camping! And no not next to you, we go too far. and pull to heavy...

Now I've heard it all. Diesel's not only pull heavier loads faster up hills (big effing deal). They pull them to places that are further ( so far that gassers can't reach).

???

You guys think you can drive into another dimension - campgrounds that only diesels can reach. I think you've driven yourselves to dementia.

This discussion is more lame than an argument about chevy vs. ford vs dodge.

[woodrow]

Ace! wrote:
Ah, it's alright bluenote. Your truck came with a sense of humor and my gas truck came with more rear wheel torque.

Thought you replied to the mod's post. I guess you need a lesson on TQ and posting:R By the time you are done doing 1st grade math us diesel folks will be camping! And no not next to you, we go too far. and pull to heavy.. and your music will never be too loud 4 me! The V10 gasser you have is a great rig for pulling less...as you state. but not for me. Wow you get really rilled up for a gasser guy..maybe put that energy into some torque and quit whining...on the other hand, get a diesel and be done!

[blt2ski]

Ace,

When doing those figures, also use the first gear or low ratio in the trans too! I have a rig with 336 lb ft of torque, 4.33 gears, but a trans ratio of 10.08-1 in first gear. That rig WILL out pull ANY of my 2 pickumups, be them gas or diesel! Both of which have more torque than that rig with its NA 7.3 diesel in it!

Also, make sure you factor in the tire diam. Bluenotes Chebby has 30.5" diam tires, your Dorf 31.5" diam tires. So your RA ratio is effectively about a 4.15 or there abouts! So reality is, Bluenotes rig is probably producing more torque to the rear wheels than you are! Of course, I have "NOT" done the math, so I may be wrong, but the comparison will be more equal than what you have shown!

Any way, torque is what you need to move the thing initially, HP keeps it going!

Also, somewhere I have posted a formula that will tell you the max grade in % terms that you can go up with a given rig, based on tire diam, torque, axel and trans ratio. Quite interesting to say the least. My navistar is good to 30% at 30K lbs, my 620 lb ft torque dmax, all of 24% at 20K lbs, my old 6.5TD due to the manual trans with 385 lb ft of torque, 30% a 20K lbs. yet the dmax has a 10K lb higher tow rating! There is more to a good tow rig than the tq multiplication!

Please note, I am NOT saying a gas is better/worst than a diesel. BUT, we need to look at ALL the factors to decide. Torque, gearing, both trans, and axel ratios, with a tire diam thrown in, payload, spring capacities, etc. Otherwise, IF you go by JUST the power part, you will have a very BAD tow rig. Been there done that!

marty

[bluenote]

Ace, feel free to show us a link to anywhere, anytime, at any point, in any thread here at rv.net where I have stated a big block gas engine is an incapable powerplant for towing heavier RV's. Oops....wait a minute, you can't do it, because it hasn't happened. Yet, you continue to make comments attacking me and/or insinuating I have, seemingly lumping me in with those who have made such statements. Maybe if you actually read what people posted, instead of making incorrect assumptions as to their intent, you wouldn't come off sounding so foolish.

[Rvndave]

woodrow wrote:
Ford F-Series Super Duty, 2-valve SOHC, 310 hp (231 kW) and 425 lb·ft (576 N·m) ratings for 2000 and later model years

The LLY (internally called the 8GF1) (engine code "2") is a 6.6 L (6599 cc, 403 cu in) turbocharged engine which debuted in 2004 and continued until the end of 2005. It is a 32-valve design with high-pressure common-rail direct injection and aluminum cylinder heads. Output is 310 hp (231 kW) at 3100 rpm and 605 lb·ft (820 N·m) at 1800 rpm.

Can you add ACE!...605...425 a classic gasser post! another example of a non tower on the tow vehicle forum.. thats ok ace..if I only drove up and down the 5 i would have a gasser also...not! I-5 is like a mole hill...you probably havent unleashed the 2 ponies of extra hp out of that 10 cylinder pig. One question, how come I can make 360HP and 650 FTLB's of TQ with 8 cyl.(thats torque by the way) and you make what seems to be a Honda Accords TQ value, I mean the ford escort sorry...too much credit.Move on and realize that your V10 is the old school way of towing efficiently...

And to think my lowly straight six cylinder only puts out 555 ft lb of torque. Don't seem fair a 6 cylinder with more power than a V10.

[Ace_]

woodrow wrote:
Ford F-Series Super Duty, 2-valve SOHC, 310 hp (231 kW) and 425 lb·ft (576 N·m) ratings for 2000 and later model years

The LLY (internally called the 8GF1) (engine code "2") is a 6.6 L (6599 cc, 403 cu in) turbocharged engine which debuted in 2004 and continued until the end of 2005. It is a 32-valve design with high-pressure common-rail direct injection and aluminum cylinder heads. Output is 310 hp (231 kW) at 3100 rpm and 605 lb·ft (820 N·m) at 1800 rpm.

Can you add ACE!...605...425 a classic gasser post! another example of a non tower on the tow vehicle forum.. thats ok ace..if I only drove up and down the 5 i would have a gasser also...not! I-5 is like a mole hill...you probably havent unleashed the 2 ponies of extra hp out of that 10 cylinder pig. One question, how come I can make 360HP and 650 FTLB's of TQ with 8 cyl.(thats torque by the way) and you make what seems to be a Honda Accords TQ value, I mean the ford escort sorry...too much credit.Move on and realize that your V10 is the old school way of towing efficiently...

Woodrow, you know rear wheel torque is a function of gearing, right? That flywheel torque is more of a marketing tool for manufacturers, in my opinion anyway?

I wasn't speaking to you; however, I'll address what you said, since you said it. I can add. I can also multiply. You got the torque wrong for my truck. It's 457 at the flywheel. I was addressing bluenote, as indicated in the thread. The truck bluenote has is a 2001, with 520 ft/lbs of torque, right? Multiply 520*3.73 and you get 1939. Multipy 457*4.30 and you get 1965. Can you see one is higher than the other? Guess which one. I've shown this same example, or one like it, over and over, but honestly, it amounts to much ado about nothing. What it proves is that both trucks will do the same thing. There isn't some magic that a diesel has that a gasser does not. They'll both pull the same loads. Woodrow, I'm sure you've read all of the posts in this thread, and especially all of mine, so I'm sure you understand that I don't care what you drive, and that I have experience with most gas/diesels out there, and in other applications than towing (farm equipment, boats, etc.). So, I'll make you the winner. I thought it was someone else, but after reviewing the play, you're definitely the winner. How's that?

You on the other hand have a different engine than does bluenote (based on profiles anyway). So, if you have 650*3.73 you get 2424. So, you know what you win? What did you prove? Nothing. I'll still see you at the campground, I'll park next to you and probably play my music too loud, or you won't like Irish bagpipes, whatever. Our trucks will still do the same thing, and pull the same loads.

One thing I did not mention though, is transmissions. So, those of you scratching your heads, yes, that needs to be taken into consideration. Also, the RPM at which you reach max torque. So, if anyone read the pickuptrucks.com heavy duty shootout and didn't understand why a V10 gasser was so closely matched to the Ford 6.4L diesel, well, that's why. Although they share a transmission, the gasser makes peak torque much later in the powerband, and the RPM at which it does it more closely matched to the 10k lbs load they were testing with. The V10 climbs where the 6.4L drops. And yes, in the real world this happens too, so those of you with diesels, Ford, or otherwise, I hope you'll realize that regardless of how much you protest, the V10 gasser will hold it's own and in many respects put MORE torque to the ground than your diesel (which is not a slam against diesels, but rather a fact, that is still a fact even if you believe only a diesel will pull heavy).

If you want to keep making personal insults or arguing, I'm definitely up for it. I can go all night and then some, just ask your ... Anyway, my point has always been, option the truck for what you need, but to say something else won't do the job is bs, unless you understand what the other thing is. A lot (not saying you) of diesel owners don't understand the current gas offerings or what they have to bring to the party.

Edited to add:
I didn't look it up, but since you mentioned it, how much torque does a Ford Escort make, what's it's differential/transaxle gearing? Is it really more than my truck, or any other truck, or are you talking out the side of your mouth? Why post like that anyway, really? It brings the level of discussion, argument or whatever else you want to call it, WAY down. Shouldn't we be at least using true statements? Really, what was your point?

[BertP]

blt2ski wrote:
I need NO more proof this thread is phun.....or is that fun!

I had not seen Bert post in what seemed like ages, and here is is, trying to stir up the pot again, with his HP is better the torque posts!:P:P:P:p

Sorry Bert, could not resist the jab!:B:B:B:B:B:B

marty

No problem Marty :P:P:P:P I figured that this thread seemed to need an infusion of levity :B:P:B:P:B:P

Bert

[woodrow]

Ford F-Series Super Duty, 2-valve SOHC, 310 hp (231 kW) and 425 lb·ft (576 N·m) ratings for 2000 and later model years

The LLY (internally called the 8GF1) (engine code "2") is a 6.6 L (6599 cc, 403 cu in) turbocharged engine which debuted in 2004 and continued until the end of 2005. It is a 32-valve design with high-pressure common-rail direct injection and aluminum cylinder heads. Output is 310 hp (231 kW) at 3100 rpm and 605 lb·ft (820 N·m) at 1800 rpm.

Can you add ACE!...605...425 a classic gasser post! another example of a non tower on the tow vehicle forum.. thats ok ace..if I only drove up and down the 5 i would have a gasser also...not! I-5 is like a mole hill...you probably havent unleashed the 2 ponies of extra hp out of that 10 cylinder pig. One question, how come I can make 360HP and 650 FTLB's of TQ with 8 cyl.(thats torque by the way) and you make what seems to be a Honda Accords TQ value, I mean the ford escort sorry...too much credit.Move on and realize that your V10 is the old school way of towing efficiently...

[Ace_]

Ah, it's alright bluenote. Your truck came with a sense of humor and my gas truck came with more rear wheel torque.

[blt2ski]

Gee, I only show 114 pages! and have only had to fill up my tank a half of a time!:B:B:B:B

lets see here, the gazzer has been filled a few dozen times. the diezel dump truck three dozen times...........

Ok, off to boat to see how much snow in onit, have 8" at my house in N seattle right now, frequin blizzard for this area right now........such phun!

SPLAT! ohhhh got bluenote on the windshield! Splat, not got ace, that should slow them down with them snoballs on the drivers side window! hee hee

Marty

[bluenote]

Ace,

Well, at least we've established one of us does.

[Ace_]

Wow bluenote, you do have a sense of humor, nice!

[bluenote]

...and even with 227 pages, I've only had to fill with diesel a couple times.