Do all lightweight large TT's tow terribly, or just ours?

[BoilerEE]

Hello RV.net forums friends! It's been a while, but I'm back, and with a completely different rig now. We've had a couple of different large truck campers, a 42' Titanium 5th wheel, and multiple cargo trailers up to 10k# and 30', so I consider myself a fairly experienced RVer.

Thinking I knew what I was doing, we decided to try an SUV/TT combo, and I'm happy that we're only trying it (will be driving back to Alaska for the summer so my wife and I can do our Guard/Reserve duty for the year and then selling the rig up there and flying home). The reason I'm glad is, it tows terribly!!! Here are the details:

2015 Suburban LTZ
2013 Passport Ultra Lite 3220BH
14K Equal-i-zer hitch (tried a 6K on the dealer's advice, and it was way too sloppy, so I just setup my 14K I had from previous setups, and it's better, but still floaty).

So, I spent some time at the scales today and here's what I learned:
Suburban is right at 5980# empty, with Steer axle 3080 and drive 2900.
The height to the front wheel well unloaded is 35 1/2"

I didn't run across without the WD bars attached, but the wheel well height was 36 1/8" with no weight distribution.

With the Equal-i-zer adjusted, my weights are:
Steer: 2840 (240# less than unloaded) and height of wheel well is 35 7/8"
Drive: 3960
Trailer: 5960
Gross: 12760

I'm thinking I could probably put in one more washer to dial in a little more WD and get the Steer axle closer to the unloaded weight, but I'm wondering if not matter what I do the real problem is that I've got a ton of surface area and very little weight. Is this just the way it is with a light and large TT? Is there anything I'm missing?

As you can see, it's dead-nuts level (which makes my OCD happy) -- I just wish it was as nice to drive as it is to look at!

M%Eo6MepSZWYAax5bVlnXA by BoilerEE, on Flickr

[goducks10]

TT axles are to close to the center of the TT. Won't matter how heavy you make the TW it will still not feel planted. BTDT.
And it's too long.
Put the same weight in 6x12 cargo trailer and I bet you'd have no issues.

[TurnThePage]

One more vote to max out the pressure if you're running P rated tires, as well as ensuring trailer tires are properly inflated. I also think you might try lowering the hitch a notch then tighten it up.

[MikeJulieGDImag]

I suggest going back to the scales and weighing multiple times with different adjustments on your WDH. We tow with a 2013 Expedition EL and on one trip I noticed it felt very 'floaty' to the point it was a little nerve racking. Your feeling 'floaty' because you have removed quite a bit of weight off the steer axle. Go back to the scales loaded as if you were going on a full trip and hit the scales multiple times doing different adjustments until the weight on your steer axle is almost back to stock without the trailer hooked up. I did this and noticed the setting I was using when I had the 'floaty' feeling I was off almost 300 lbs on the steer axle from stock. I weighed up multiple times and go the adjustment on the WDH to where the weight on the steer axle is within 40 lbs of stock. No issues since.

[naturist]

One other thing to consider is tire pressures. They can make all the difference in the world, too.

One mistake I see often is folks expecting to load up a rig and run exactly the same tire pressures they have in it when not towing. The simple truth is that having more weight on the back end (or the front end, for that matter) than the tire pressure can handle will cause squirrelly behavior.

I have seen vehicles that used the entire roadway at 45 because they squirmed all over the place due to low tire pressures, turn into perfectly civilized rides at 60 when enough air was put in the tires.

Look on the tire sidewalls, you will find a rating of X number of pounds at Y psi. If you take the weight you expect that tire to carry, divide by the max number of pounds the tire can carry, and multiply by the max tire pressure, you will learn how much air you need in there. This is a starting point. You may need to go to more air than that (up to the max on the sidewall) to get it to behave. But it is absolutely certain that if you have less than that, BAD THINGS will happen.

[jrhanbar98]

the bear II wrote:
I know photos can be deceiving but to me it looks like the front of the trailer is higher than the rear. I would like to see some more squat at the rear of the suburban. The weight of the rear slideout may be the culprit.

What he said. Slide aft axel will cause issues. When loading try and get weight in fro to of the axel, than and 1-2 more washers should help.

[coolmom42]

Put another washer on your hitch, drop the TT tongue an inch, and put some more tongue weight. Do each of these and check in between. I'm betting the extra washer will make a huge difference.

Make sure that your Burb tires are inflated correctly for the load, and consider going up another load range if you are close to the top.

Make sure the TT tires are inflated correctly for the load (usually max pressure.)

Regardless, it's not going to tow like a 5th wheel, but it shouldn't be squirrely.

[CavemanCharlie]

I have a 2011 F-150. When I first got it I was unhappy with how it towed my TT. I had a tire go bad on it and after I got different tires it towed my TT a lot better.

How good are your tow vehicle tires ? From the factory they tend to put the mushiest tires on them that they can so that they ride better.

[BoilerEE]

DownTheAvenue wrote:

Hornnumb2 wrote:
Just my 2 cents but that looks like a whole lot of trailer for 1/2 suburban.

X2

It does look like it, but as seen in the pic it weighed in at 6,780# and the Suburban is rated to 8K ... thinking though that the wind and the leverage, particularly laterally don't care about the weight as much as the surface area.

I didn't weigh the tongue separately, but even with the WD bars attached, I'm increasing the drive axle weight by 1000#, which seems like a lot. I wonder if the auto-level air ride system is giving it problems - I did try to set it up like the GM manual says and read a lot of threads on the subject. Wish there was a way to manually control what it tries to do.

I'll measure from the frame next time I have it out, but it's no kidding level within +/- 0.5" across the whole span when I measure from the belt line to the ground - you can see the roof is level with the eave on the garage.

[DownTheAvenue]

Hornnumb2 wrote:
Just my 2 cents but that looks like a whole lot of trailer for 1/2 suburban.

X2

[jfkmk]

ScottG wrote:

the bear II wrote:
I know photos can be deceiving but to me it looks like the front of the trailer is higher than the rear. I would like to see some more squat at the rear of the suburban. The weight of the rear slideout may be the culprit.

I was thinking the same thing about the TT being a little high in front (couldn't see pic originally).
Even being a little high makes a big difference.
I would measure the frame to ground at both front and back.

If it's higher in front, I would lower the front one hole and try it out. That will make the spring bars tighter as well. You may even be able to back off on them after that.

BTW, you may already know this but 2 washers = 1 chain link.

I was thinking it looked a little high in front as well.

[ScottG]

the bear II wrote:
I know photos can be deceiving but to me it looks like the front of the trailer is higher than the rear. I would like to see some more squat at the rear of the suburban. The weight of the rear slideout may be the culprit.

I was thinking the same thing about the TT being a little high in front (couldn't see pic originally).
Even being a little high makes a big difference.
I would measure the frame to ground at both front and back.

If it's higher in front, I would lower the front one hole and try it out. That will make the spring bars tighter as well. You may even be able to back off on them after that.

BTW, you may already know this but 2 washers = 1 chain link.

[the_bear_II]

I know photos can be deceiving but to me it looks like the front of the trailer is higher than the rear. I would like to see some more squat at the rear of the suburban. The weight of the rear slideout may be the culprit.

[Hornnumb2]

Just my 2 cents but that looks like a whole lot of trailer for 1/2 suburban.

[WNYBob]

Yes balance makes a big difference, do you have at least 12% of the total weight of the TT (not 12% of the dry wt.)

Next what tires are you running? 'P'? I upgraded to 'E' rated and also upgraded the suspension. OEM plastic bushings were shot. Went to bronze bushings and wet bolts, plus a cushioned equalizer (EZ-Flex by Dexter)

This reduced my sway 10 fold!

[MFL]

Sometimes with a TT, slightly low in front will make a big difference. If your fresh water tank is over the axles, you might try towing with it full.

Jerry