First barrage with the dealer

[Raife]

So we went and spent time with the Grand Design Imagine XLS 21BHE today. We spent about 10 minutes with the sales person and then asked if we could spend some time in the unit by ourselves (me, wife, and 3 kids). We just "played" for about 15 minutes, and then did about 70% of Tom Boles Pre Delivery Inspection. We had shore power, but nothing else. Overall the unit was very nice...we found a couple nitpik things.

So then we talked numbers. He started with the same sheet he had sent me which was 18.43% below MSRP (inclusive of freight charge). He said the freight charge was the cost to get it to them. The only fees were (I clarified several times there were no other fees later - he said no. We do get a 1-hour walk-through and "basics" kit):
- Documentary fee: $150.
- Title fee: $116.75
- State inspection fee: $7.00

We said we had an out the door budget that was significantly lower (like 35%) than what he had proposed and that we were looking at several other models as they were much closer to our budget. He tried to go down the finance route, we ignored it, and said we wanted to talk the out the door price first and we already had the means to pay for it. He asked what we were willing to spend, so we gave the number at 26% off.

He did the "let me take it to my manager" game and came back with $300 off. We joked about how that was not really a change.

He then stated with the provided price it was was $1,000 profit for the dealer (which I didn't believe) and said that was the lowest the the dealership would go. We briefly discussed "freebies" he could toss in, primarily being the WDH. He said nope. He then went down the financing route again asking what our monthly payment target was...we ignored it and talked generalities of how the dealer financing worked. He said depending on how the financing played out he may be able to bring the sale price down some more.

We thanked him, said we would be looking at the other models we were considering, but would keep in touch as our hold deposit was good through Wed (although he said if we stayed in contact he could honor it till next weekend).

So a couple basic questions:
1) Do I believe the $1,000 profit and if true is that typical/reasonable for an RV sale?

2) If I calculate out the total cost (MSRP + freight + fees), the current offer from the dealer is 19.25% off...while I know in the "ol'days"
25-30% could be the norm, I question if it is now.

For reference the other two models are the:
- Gulfstream Kingsport Ultrlite 247ABH
- Jayco Jay Flight 224BH

I am opening up the flood gates to the thoughts and opinions of all of you...

Thank you.

[Beaker]

I'd use the internet to find a couple other dealers with the same model, email them with a nice low out-the-door offer you'd be willing to pay them, and see what responses you get back. What they say will tell you how good or bad a price this first dealer is offering, relative to competition.

This is the only way to get an idea what that trailer is selling for.
Doesn't matter what profit he says they're making(you believe him?) and I have never worried about what someones profit is whether cars or trailers. I get the best price I can get "out the door". Let them fill in the blanks however they want.

[the_e-man]

Raife wrote:
I know in 6-12 months the market will be better, but we are trying to get some trips in before a big trip in November. I am going to start looking at some campground options in the next day for our potential "shakedown" trips.

Hi Raife,

It seems like you are doing your research. You have picked some nice campers that meet your needs. It doesn't look like this dealer has added too many extra fees that you might have encountered elsewhere.

Many of us look for the best deal we can get when shopping for an RV. It's up to you to decide how urgent the purchase is and how much you can afford. Sometimes it's good to wait. Other times, you can jump in and enjoy something now. It's a trade off. Wait for a potentially better deal later or take an OK deal now. One approach maximizes the budget while the other maximizes for current enjoyment.

One other thought. Consider going to your local bank or credit union to line up a loan. You may find you can get a better deal that what is offered at the dealer. It seems like rates are pretty low at the moment - which could help you save a bit on your overall cost.

[noteven]

Gdetrailer wrote:

noteven wrote:
MSRP is a government mandated requirement isn't it?

No.

That would be GSRP, GOVERNMENT SUGGESTED RETAIL PRICE.

Last time I checked, we ARE still United States Of America and government does not set the prices or "mandate" the prices we pay for things like RVs.. Pretty much USA works on SUPPLY AND DEMAND unlike some other countries. Not enough supply for the demand and prices stay high, too much supply and prices drop.

RV manufacturers just like any other manufacturer has TWO prices, Suggested Retail (MSRP) and INVOICE (the price the DEALER pays to buy from the manufacturer).

INVOICE ALWAYS LOWER than the RETAIL.

Dealers goal is to get RETAIL OR MORE whenever possible.

There are times when the dealer CAN sell for less than Invoice, typically happens when manufacturer is trying to clear out old or slow moving models. At those times Manufacturer may offer dealer certain "Incentives" like cash back or "spiffs" to dealer to sweeten the deal. Those incentives in the RV world are not offered to the public unlike auto sales.

Dealer may also get bonus money from manufacturer at the end of year depending on how much sales were generated for the manufacturer.

No matter how much they whine about not making money on a sale they do have wiggle room in the price between Invoice and MSRP to earn enough money to pay sales people, keep the lights on, pay lot rent, pay inventory carry costs and yes even make a profit.

Dealers do pad the bill by adding on extra charges like DOC prep fees and in the case of the OP, Freight??? Those are pure profits..

Oops I didn’t mean government sets MSRP...

Let me re-word my question correctly:

Displaying / publishing a MSRP is mandated by government isn’t it?

[rexlion]

I'd use the internet to find a couple other dealers with the same model, email them with a nice low out-the-door offer you'd be willing to pay them, and see what responses you get back. What they say will tell you how good or bad a price this first dealer is offering, relative to competition.

[Gdetrailer]

Raife wrote:
I know in 6-12 months the market will be better, but we are trying to get some trips in before a big trip in November. I am going to start looking at some campground options in the next day for our potential "shakedown" trips.

We tend to keep things for a long time (i.e. every car we have owned we sold close to 200K miles), so not worried about selling in a year or two and necessarily being upside down. We also plan on paying more per month than what ever the financing ends up at...

I know he can sell to someone else without issue as when we tried to put a hold on a unit it was gone in the 30 minutes my wife and I discussed. The subsequent one we now have the hold on happened to be inbound.

I contact 40 dealers in a 5 hour radius of us and we only got 5 in-stock used or new units that meet my weight, length, and sleeping requirements. 2 were too small...

Nobody knows what the market will be in 1 day from now, let alone 6-12 months from now it may be better, it may be worse.

Seems to me you are putting way to much "pressure" on yourself by lining up camping "opportunities" and not having a RV to camp in.

STOP.

RESET.

You are driving yourself crazy because of the pressure that you are putting yourself under.

The proverbial "putting the cart before the horse".

PUSH OUT your camping until you actually physically have a RV, then do a few "backyard" camping in your driveway or literally in your back yard.

Heck, my DW and I have been camping for almost 20 yrs and this is the first year we have PUSHED out all of our camping until next Summer due to the C thing.

You are not missing one thing other than the pressure, headaches and misery you are putting yourself under.

If your REALLY feel you MUST camp this year, start looking at USED RVs, there are PLENTY of used RVs OR EVEN RENT A RV once or twice.

Dig around CL, always plenty of those on CL to choose from. This also gives you a chance to review what you like, don't like or find you might want in a new one and allows for you to have more time to strike a deal that you can live with for a new unit.

[Gdetrailer]

noteven wrote:
MSRP is a government mandated requirement isn't it?

No.

That would be GSRP, GOVERNMENT SUGGESTED RETAIL PRICE.

Last time I checked, we ARE still United States Of America and government does not set the prices or "mandate" the prices we pay for things like RVs.. Pretty much USA works on SUPPLY AND DEMAND unlike some other countries. Not enough supply for the demand and prices stay high, too much supply and prices drop.

RV manufacturers just like any other manufacturer has TWO prices, Suggested Retail (MSRP) and INVOICE (the price the DEALER pays to buy from the manufacturer).

INVOICE ALWAYS LOWER than the RETAIL.

Dealers goal is to get RETAIL OR MORE whenever possible.

There are times when the dealer CAN sell for less than Invoice, typically happens when manufacturer is trying to clear out old or slow moving models. At those times Manufacturer may offer dealer certain "Incentives" like cash back or "spiffs" to dealer to sweeten the deal. Those incentives in the RV world are not offered to the public unlike auto sales.

Dealer may also get bonus money from manufacturer at the end of year depending on how much sales were generated for the manufacturer.

No matter how much they whine about not making money on a sale they do have wiggle room in the price between Invoice and MSRP to earn enough money to pay sales people, keep the lights on, pay lot rent, pay inventory carry costs and yes even make a profit.

Dealers do pad the bill by adding on extra charges like DOC prep fees and in the case of the OP, Freight??? Those are pure profits..

[Boomerweps]

X2 www.rvtrader.com
I bought my 2019 TT 180 miles away in the next state. $11,500.00 vs. $16,000 2018 50 miles away April 2019. Base price Taxes, state paperwork fees added, no delivery fees added, THAT should be part of the sales price. Separating that out is a dealer money maker. My TT was listed by some dealers out to near $22,000!
Dealer I worked with sent me photos of the 2019 changes, mostly around the full size refrigerator vice previous under counter model (lost a small pantry).

[Grit_dog]

^Wapiti sounds like a RV dealer, lol.
Well Raife, it’s worth what it’s worth to you regardless of all the conjecture here.
Personally I don’t mind haggling for price onthings and will every time, but somehow I basically despise car/boat/RV type tactics.
Guess I don’t like the run around and being told a story.
A good salesman will get more money for something and not make the customer feel like they got jipped.

Met a good salesman yesterday. Went to check out the first real hockey pro shop in the seattle area. Kinda grand opening for them still. They gave us (3 of us) t shirts and $60 worth of gift cards at the door! Cool!
We were just size shopping, son is growing out of a couple things and no trips to Canada allowed for cheap hockey gear, lol.
Trying on skates, He brings out the $1000 models. Awesome skates! And immediately is shoving custom insoles in them etc. well we settle on the $380 skates after trying a bunch on....and the insoles. I didn’t even have the inclination to look at them. How much could insoles be, right? Kid plays tier 1 hockey and we’re at the point where little things matter I suppose and if they feel better, great.
We check out with a few items incl the skates and insoles. Quick math doesn’t seem like we got much if any of that $60 discount.
I was right. Insoles were $59.99!

See, THAT salesman would have had that TT hooked to your vehicle by the time you left!
Good luck in your search bud. And IMO don’t be afraid of used TTs either. The chance that new is a benefit over newer used is very slim. Again IMo.

[Deb_and_Ed_M]

I'm impressed by a dealer that doesn't play the add-on-fees game. At one point in my search, I had asked a large dealership that we had purchased our MH from a long time ago, for a price on a new TT. Because I was a returning customer - he cut the almost $4,000 in added fees, in half.

I bought a nice 2yr old trailer from a small dealer (I'm going to give them a shout-out because they were so nice to deal with: Curtis Trailer in Schoolcraft, MI) about 30 miles away - there were no add-on fees, they charged for tax/license/title. The price was competitive, the trailer spotless. The salesman knew his product, and there was no pressure to purchase 🙂

Always compare the out-the-door price! And it's fine to walk away if the price is more than you wish to pay - if you realize later that your expectations were a bit too much, you can always go back with a higher offer.

[wapiticountry]

How do you want to define what a dealer makes on a sale? Say the dealer paid $40,000 to the manufacturer for the unit. If they sell it for $45,000 did they make $5,000? I would say, not even close. Because out of the $5,000 they have to pay the sales person a commission, usually around 25%, that leaves $3750.00 But wait, on top of the commission, the dealer has to pay FICA taxes, unemployment insurance, workman's comp insurance, possibly a 401K match and other benefits, so that will likely run up and additional 20% to the cost of the commission, so take $250.00 off the profit. Apparently there is a sales manager, so he gets $250 net off this sale. There are support people such as receptionist, title clerk, accounting department etc. Say they all cost $250 more. We are down to $3000.00. Land, buildings, utilities, the guys who clean the rigs, surely add another $500.00 to $1000 to the cost of a sale. Split the difference to $750.00 and we are at $2250.00. State and local income taxes for the dealer probably are $35% at a minimum so the dealer is making less than $1500.00. And I bet all those cost figures are on the low side and the original gross profit is greatly inflated. There is no way a dealer could make it if each sale only started with a $1000.00 gross profit before expenses on each sale.

[GrandpaKip]

Pay no attention to doc fees, freight, delivery, etc. Just get the out the door price with any freebies. I have never cared what was written above the bottom line. When I bought ours, I told them what I would pay for it and not a penny more. I told them to just make all the numbers work, that the bottom number is all I cared about. He agreed and we had a deal. Did the same with our new truck.

[Devocamper]

Dealers do not currently need to make you a good deal , there are so many people that are buying rv’s for the first time they probably could get MSRP for most of their sales . Wait until spring and there will be a flood of rv’s that were used one time for sale ! The rv life is not the answer for everyone and not as simple as the industry is making it look with hitches proper tow vehicles, poor quality, plumbing and electrical repairs and tanks bing filled and emptied. Good luck in your plans .

[TomG2]

bob213 wrote:
....snip..... Have you really considered how cramped that trailer is going to be with 5 people in it? I don't mean to rain on your parade but that's going to be pretty tight living conditions. ........

Other than full-timers do people really buy travel trailers to "Live in"? I use a camper to sleep in while I am visiting interesting and fun places. Then I am out of the trailer. Families have enjoyed tent camping for years in smaller spaces than a 25 foot travel trailer with sleeping for six.

[garyemunson]

Using RV Trader is how we will buy RVs from now on. Buying one from out of state has the advantage the dealer has to scrap all the "doc fee" nonsense as they have no way to do the paperwork in your home state.

[noteven]

MSRP is a government mandated requirement isn't it?