first time RV towing

[pmlevine]

Hello, I am a first time RV user, just purchased a Winnegago Micro Minnie 22 foot model 2106 FBS, http://winnebagoind.com/products/travel-trailer/2016/micro-minnie/specifications
The Winnebago Micro Mini has an UNLOADED weight of 3800 lbs, and has a double axle with electric brakes. Our tow vehicle is a 2016 Nissan Frontier, with Nissan tow receiver and 7 pin electrical, max tow capacity 6000lbs. http://www.nissanusa.com/trucks/frontier/versions-specs/version.sl-crew.html We will also be having an electric brake controller installed in the cab of the Nissan by the RV dealer.
My question is regarding the anti sway tow hitch setup, as part of the purchase we are having a anti-sway bar hitch installed by the RV dealer. Considering the Nissan Frontier is a small/mid size vehicle, is a two point adjustable anti sway bar setup adequate to prevent any sway issues on the highway? Or should we request a four point adjustable anti-sway bar?
thank you for advice,
A first time travel trailer user,
Philip

[SoundGuy]

Boon Docker wrote:
So what you are saying is that the manufacturer lied about the dry tongue weight (of 9 percent) 350 lb and you are correct about it being 14 percent.

Of course I'm correct! :W No need to be dramatic, the factory has no need to "lie" as the factory dry weight of this particular trailer could easily be 9%. So what? ... it's the trailer's gross tongue weight relative to it's gross weight loaded and ready to camp that's important, the ideal target being 13% to 14%. Currently I'm running closer to 13% but would prefer a bit more, closer to 14%, as I've proven to myself over the years that more is better, yet 14% still allows a reasonable buffer to a max of 15% those times I may run a little heavy.

[Boon_Docker]

So what you are saying is that the manufacturer lied about the dry tongue weight (of 9 percent) 350 lb and you are correct about it being 14 percent.

[SoundGuy]

Boon Docker wrote:
The dry tongue weight on this model is 350 lb which is 9 percent. So with a loaded weight of 4700 the tongue weight should be around 425 lb.

Nonsense. Doesn't matter what the so-called dry tongue weight is listed at ... fact is, this trailer loaded and ready to camp is going to weigh at least 4500 lbs but more likely closer to 4700 to 4800 lbs even with careful loading. 14% of 4700 lbs is 658 lbs ... which corresponds quite closely with my own Coachmen Freedom Express which is a bit lighter than the OP's Minnie, typically averages ~ 4500 lbs loaded and ready to camp, and which averages a gross tongue weight in the 600 to 625 lb range depending on the cargo I'm carrying at the time and how much content may be in any one of the three holding tanks. No way, no how will the OP be running just 425 lbs of gross tongue weight ... no way.

[Boon_Docker]

The dry tongue weight on this model is 350 lb which is 9 percent. So with a loaded weight of 4700 the tongue weight should be around 425 lb.

[SoundGuy]

If the OP hasn't already done so he'd be wise to read through this current discussion on the same subject. 😉

[SoundGuy]

pmlevine wrote:
The Nissan Frontier GVWR is 5815 lbs.
The Nissan front axle GAWR is 3296 lbs, the rear axle is 3331 lbs. With travel trailer loaded, I estimate the tongue weight to be around 650 lbs.
The Micro Minnie dry weight is 3705 lbs. The front end of the Micro Minnie is curved, and hopefully will help on wind resistance.

Oh boy, here we go. :R

First of all, dream on about that so-called "curved" front wall on your trailer - travel trailers ALL have a curved front wall and the only difference that might be noted is if it was compared to a perfectly vertical wall. NO travel trailer front wall is perfectly vertical so any minor difference in curvature between trailer front walls will have zero impact on your ability to tow any TT with your Nissan.

Secondly, your V6 truck will be working hard towing this trailer, count on it ... and that will be reflected in it's fuel mileage returns which you can bet won't be any better and probably worse on average than what a properly geared 1/2 ton would get towing the same trailer. When it comes to towing a barn door at highway speeds it's all about grunt under the hood.

So now you know your truck's GVWR, what you don't know is what it actually weighs sitting there with a full tank of gas ready to be hitched to a trailer. To determine this fill the tank and with the weight distribution mounted on the truck (and even spring bars in the back) go weigh the truck. If you're in it at the time subtract your weight from the scale reading - that's your truck's actual real world curb weight, ready to hitch up to a trailer. Subtract that number from it's stated GVWR and the difference will be it's actual real world payload capacity. That's the number you're going to use to account for the weight of all people in the truck, all cargo you may toss into the truck, plus any gross tongue weight transferred from the trailer to the truck.

With a factory dry weight of 3705 lbs you can bet the trailer's actual weight as it sits there with any options & accessories it may have, a battery, propane in the tanks, water in the water heater tank, and some reserve water in the fresh water holding tank, will be several hundred pounds more. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see this trailer's actual GVW hit at least 4000 lb before you add any of your personal gear - clothes, bedding, food, camping equipment, etc, etc, etc. Loaded and ready to camp I doubt you'd be as heavy as 5300 lbs but it certainly would be at least in the 4500 to 4700 lb range even if you're really careful about what you load into the trailer. 14% of 4700 lbs (as an example) is 658 lbs and dollars to donuts I'd bet that's approximately the gross tongue weight you'll be running with this trailer. That's weight your truck has to accommodate within it's payload capacity ... exceed that and you're sure to also exceed it's GRAWR (Gross Rear Axle Weight Rating).

Not only are you expecting your V6 with it's rather modest HP and torque ratings to deal with twice the weight when towing this trailer than it normally does but you haven't even considered it's axle ratio and transmission characteristics, both of which are vitally important. I run GM's ubiquitous but non-tow friendly 3.42 axle ratio coupled to an older wide ratio 4-speed transmission in my Avalanche ... works OK but is hardly sterling and I would be far better off with a 3.73 axle ratio coupled to GM's more recent narrow ratio 6-speed transmission. As far as I can tell from what you've told us so far you haven't even considered this but believe me these details make a HUGE difference in the ability of your truck to tow. Unfortunately most off shore vehicle manufacturers don't offer different axles whereas domestic manufacturers (GM, Ford, Dodge) do, because those trucks are designed to tow.

Unfortunately, you have what you have and since it seems like this is a done deal the best I can do is wish you well but with the prediction it will only be a matter of time before you, like many before you, will be looking for more truck. 😉

[xteacher]

I towed a similar-sized TT with a Tacoma a few years ago with basically the same specs as your frontier. It wasn't ideal, but doable. Plan on the truck being sluggish on hills, and drive below 65 mph. Make sure you have a good WDH/sway control, as well as a tow package on your truck.

[naturist]

pmlevine wrote:
Hi All, OP here.
The Nissan Frontier GVWR is 5815 lbs.
The Nissan front axle GAWR is 3296 lbs, the rear axle is 3331 lbs. With travel trailer loaded, I estimate the tongue weight to be around 650 lbs.
The Micro Minnie dry weight is 3705 lbs. The front end of the Micro Minnie is curved, and hopefully will help on wind resistance.
http://winnebagoind.com/products/travel-trailer/2016/micro-minnie/overview
Traveling with water tank empty, the 2 passengers and cargo will be around 800 lbs. Full gas tank around 100 lbs.
Thinking of requesting an Equal-i-zer 4 point sway control hitch. The Micro Minnie will have two LP gas tanks and 2 batteries.
So I estimate towing around 5,370 lbs.
Kind of like calculating weight capacity for a lift-off from Cape Canaveral...
Philip

It is indeed like calculating a lift-off. Except, of course, when you are way under TV capacity. You are under, it appears, although not by a lot. This means doable, safe, but you'll feel that trailer back there, and you'll want to avoid steep grades, where the lack of power will be most obvious. Otherwise, go for it, and have fun camping.

[westend]

If you have an automatic transmission, make sure there is a transmission cooler on the truck. Previous Nissan and Toyota trucks may or may not have one. 280 HP should get you down the road in Mass but I wouldn't like to use that truck in the Rockies.

[2012Coleman]

Speedogomer wrote:
The weight police may disagree, but even with cargo and passengers, you should be under the trucks payload. The Frontier should have a payload around 1400 lbs, aka the same (or more) as many half ton trucks.

Your tow vehicle isn't ideal, but the users of this site generally lean very conservative with towing capacities.

I agree with this as the payload according to what I found is 1052 to 1471. Don't forget to add the weight of the WDH setup - and I didn't think you were confused on the anti sway. Since this is a dealer setup, most likely sway control is a friction device and your question was if you should have one, or two - one on each side.

The dry weight found at the OP's link was 3705. Add a conservative 1K for gear and the tongue weight comes out to 4705 * 13% = 612 lbs.

I don't think the towing experience will be comfortable though, and the V6 will struggle getting up to speed.

Let us know how it works out for you, and good luck.

[4Kellys]

Pretty sure you won't be adding 1600 lbs to your trailer, more like 1000! I would weigh your tv at the scale loaded with everything for a trip and then subtract that from it's GVWR of 5815 and then see if you have room left for wd hitch wt and 600+ tongue weight. Good luck!

[pmlevine]

Hi All, OP here.
The Nissan Frontier GVWR is 5815 lbs.
The Nissan front axle GAWR is 3296 lbs, the rear axle is 3331 lbs. With travel trailer loaded, I estimate the tongue weight to be around 650 lbs.
The Micro Minnie dry weight is 3705 lbs. The front end of the Micro Minnie is curved, and hopefully will help on wind resistance.
http://winnebagoind.com/products/travel-trailer/2016/micro-minnie/overview
Traveling with water tank empty, the 2 passengers and cargo will be around 800 lbs. Full gas tank around 100 lbs.
Thinking of requesting an Equal-i-zer 4 point sway control hitch. The Micro Minnie will have two LP gas tanks and 2 batteries.
So I estimate towing around 5,370 lbs.
Kind of like calculating weight capacity for a lift-off from Cape Canaveral...
Philip

[AmericalVette]

JoeTampa wrote:
I always arrived over stressed and ready to binge-drink just to calm down enough to set up.

This sounds great! Even if I have to make up something to be over stressed about!!:)

OP: Congrats on the new rig!!

[naturist]

Opinions vary here, as you see. There are at least three sets of stats that need to be checked: trailer gross weight vs TV max, which you have done and sounds good; TV payload weight vs weight of passengers, full fuel tank, tongue weight, and any luggage/cargo, which you do not mention and which is likely going to be the problem; and axle weights. There is also the matter of engine power vs wind resistance. A full height TT is like dragging an open parachute. It is there you will quickly find limits.

For what it's worth my TV is also rated 6,000 lbs and I drag a similar trailer around without issue, but mine is a diesel with twice the torque, and I wouldn't want to attempt it with less. TV payload is also where the pinch comes with my rig, and likely yours as well.

One other thing hasn't been mentioned yet: your transmission and gear selection. You are going to want to make use of lower gears on hills, both goig up and down, both to help prevent overheating on the climb and brake fade on the descents.

Good luck, and I hope it all works out for you.

[Speedogomer]

The weight police may disagree, but even with cargo and passengers, you should be under the trucks payload. The Frontier should have a payload around 1400 lbs, aka the same (or more) as many half ton trucks.

Your tow vehicle isn't ideal, but the users of this site generally lean very conservative with towing capacities.