Gas or diesel

[Carrier]

I posted this on another site as well.
I have decided that the F150 I have is just not going to cut it with the trailer I have. Have an opportunity to get a pretty good deal on some 2015 350 Super Duty trucks coming available in a couple of weeks with very low mileage on them. Some are 6.7 diesel and some are 6.2 gas. Are there any here who have the 6.2 gas in a 350 Super Duty and how are the real numbers for mileage and power. I realize the diesel is going to have a lot more power however the price different is about $10,000 and the cost to service, repair will be less as well.

[FishOnOne]

rhagfo wrote:

Taco wrote:
It should be added that the reason to buy a diesel is perceived "seat of the pants" power. Since actual useful pulling power is almost identical. Nearly identical mph up hills nearly identical acceleration with a trailer.

Just feels like it is working less hard to most people and that somehow makes them feel better.

Sport45 wrote:
Diesel or gasoline doesn't matter when it comes to the hp/torque curves; it's wide open throttle for both.

This is where I get lost with the "Nearly identical mph up hills nearly identical acceleration with a trailer" thought. I tow mostly from Portland to the Oregon coast two lane twisty roads with some passing lanes. our about 270 hp Cummins can slow to 50 for a 45 mph curve, then in direct drive with 3.55's accelerate to 60 while going up a 5% to 6% grade, without going to WOT!

Keep in mind my torque is developed low, (410# at 1,400 rpm) not HP, I need to get to about 2,700 rpm for max HP.

Wrong... You need WOT and full turbo boost to make maximum HP.

[Taco]

double post

[Taco]

goducks10 wrote:

Taco wrote:
It should be added that the reason to buy a diesel is perceived "seat of the pants" power. Since actual useful pulling power is almost identical. Nearly identical mph up hills nearly identical acceleration with a trailer.

Just feels like it is working less hard to most people and that somehow makes them feel better.

I guess Ford, Ram and GM didn't get the memo when they were setting tow ratings for there HD trucks. Someone should've told them that their gassers could tow just as much. Makes me wonder why they even sell diesels.

I never mentioned ratings now did I. I simply said with the same trailer they are very very close in actual performance with the pedal to the floor.

Since the 8-10k extra a diesel costs doesn't buy any better performance maybe they give you a higher rating so you think you got something for your money.

[Sport45]

rhagfo wrote:

Sport45 wrote:
Diesel or gasoline doesn't matter when it comes to the hp/torque curves; it's wide open throttle for both.

This is where I get lost with the "Nearly identical mph up hills nearly identical acceleration with a trailer" thought. I tow mostly from Portland to the Oregon coast two lane twisty roads with some passing lanes. our about 270 hp Cummins can slow to 50 for a 45 mph curve, then in direct drive with 3.55's accelerate to 60 while going up a 5% to 6% grade, without going to WOT!

Keep in mind my torque is developed low, (410# at 1,400 rpm) not HP, I need to get to about 2,700 rpm for max HP.

A lot of people like the lower rpm grunt of the turbo diesel. I'm just pointing out that you're only going to get the rated torque at 1400 rpm when the go pedal is mashed to the floor.

[goducks10]

Taco wrote:
It should be added that the reason to buy a diesel is perceived "seat of the pants" power. Since actual useful pulling power is almost identical. Nearly identical mph up hills nearly identical acceleration with a trailer.

Just feels like it is working less hard to most people and that somehow makes them feel better.

I guess Ford, Ram and GM didn't get the memo when they were setting tow ratings for there HD trucks. Someone should've told them that their gassers could tow just as much. Makes me wonder why they even sell diesels.

[goducks10]

rhagfo wrote:

rhagfo wrote:

Taco wrote:
What assumptions are you using to get a payback at 100k miles.

Cause I sure can't see it with what I believe to be realistic numbers.

Well there is fuel savings even at gas at $3.50 and Diesel at $4.00, but to get the cost of the $8,000 engine back in 100,000 miles you need to save $.08 a mile.
With the assumption of $3.50 gas and $4.00 mileage open road 15 and 19, and 10 and 12 towing the savings is only about $.02 per mile.


The main reason for diesel now is POWER! I tow 11,000# (GCVW 19,000)running between 60 and 65 of the freeway climb grades in OD. On state highways Two lanes) may need to drop to 4th (direct) to run between 55 and 60, this is with 3.55's and about 270 HP.

GoDucks, this was in my post towards the top of the page, I don't expect payback in savings with diesel either. I just have never felt that the cost of operations is that much greater even with the fuel now costing more. It is more about POWER.

I am pretty sure we are both on the same page there.

Ditto

[rhagfo]

Taco wrote:
It should be added that the reason to buy a diesel is perceived "seat of the pants" power. Since actual useful pulling power is almost identical. Nearly identical mph up hills nearly identical acceleration with a trailer.

Just feels like it is working less hard to most people and that somehow makes them feel better.

Sport45 wrote:
Diesel or gasoline doesn't matter when it comes to the hp/torque curves; it's wide open throttle for both.

This is where I get lost with the "Nearly identical mph up hills nearly identical acceleration with a trailer" thought. I tow mostly from Portland to the Oregon coast two lane twisty roads with some passing lanes. our about 270 hp Cummins can slow to 50 for a 45 mph curve, then in direct drive with 3.55's accelerate to 60 while going up a 5% to 6% grade, without going to WOT!

Keep in mind my torque is developed low, (410# at 1,400 rpm) not HP, I need to get to about 2,700 rpm for max HP.

[Sport45]

Diesel or gasoline doesn't matter when it comes to the hp/torque curves; it's wide open throttle for both.

[azwildcat99]

Taco wrote:
It should be added that the reason to buy a diesel is perceived "seat of the pants" power. Since actual useful pulling power is almost identical. Nearly identical mph up hills nearly identical acceleration with a trailer.

Just feels like it is working less hard to most people and that somehow makes them feel better.

What you say is true, but only matters in tests using WOT. I can honestly say that I have never ran that way with my truck and I imagine most others haven't either. In part throttle applications running at lower rpms than max hp then the superior torque of diesel wins out.

I bought mine because my 5.3 barely had enough to keep 55 on small Hills. I thought the 6.0/5.4/5.7 that were in my price range didn't offer a significant enough upgrade and I found a good deal on my Duramax. Newer (07+) 6.0 and 6.8 were non existent on the used market when I was looking.

[Taco]

It should be added that the reason to buy a diesel is perceived "seat of the pants" power. Since actual useful pulling power is almost identical. Nearly identical mph up hills nearly identical acceleration with a trailer.

Just feels like it is working less hard to most people and that somehow makes them feel better.

[rhagfo]

rhagfo wrote:

Taco wrote:
What assumptions are you using to get a payback at 100k miles.

Cause I sure can't see it with what I believe to be realistic numbers.

Well there is fuel savings even at gas at $3.50 and Diesel at $4.00, but to get the cost of the $8,000 engine back in 100,000 miles you need to save $.08 a mile.
With the assumption of $3.50 gas and $4.00 mileage open road 15 and 19, and 10 and 12 towing the savings is only about $.02 per mile.


The main reason for diesel now is POWER! I tow 11,000# (GCVW 19,000)running between 60 and 65 of the freeway climb grades in OD. On state highways Two lanes) may need to drop to 4th (direct) to run between 55 and 60, this is with 3.55's and about 270 HP.

GoDucks, this was in my post towards the top of the page, I don't expect payback in savings with diesel either. I just have never felt that the cost of operations is that much greater even with the fuel now costing more. It is more about POWER.

I am pretty sure we are both on the same page there.

[goducks10]

rhagfo wrote:

goducks10 wrote:
So if I buy a diesel XL/ST for $36,000 after rebates and someone else buys a loaded gasser Laramie/Platinum for $46,000 after rebates, I'm expected to recoup cost but the other guy isn't? I don't get it.

Well that is not apples to apples really now is it Go Ducks.

I don't think anyone pays full price for the diesel option, that and the resale on diesel is higher, so the true cost is not $8,000.

I gave a $.50 difference in price and minimized the difference in mileage.

Myself the difference between my old F250 460 ci, and the Ram 5.9 Cummins was double city and almost triple empty highway.

No diesel is not for everyone, and Ford did a great job of using some of the most unreliable diesel engines, with high maintenance cost. This leads to the belief that all diesels are troublesome.

Now they build their own diesels, so you need to pay what they feel repair parts are worth.

With my Cummins, I have three parts choices;
Parts house
Dodge/Ram dealer
Cummins NW

I have found that buying from Cummins is usually the best price.

My point was that not everyone buys a diesel expecting to recoup the cost of the diesel option with mpg's. IMO It's no different than the gasser guy loading up his gasser with bling. It's all the same when resale comes around. You get a % of your options back on resale. I just don't get the idea that a diesel has to pay for it's self. People buy the diesel option because they either need it or want it.

[rhagfo]

goducks10 wrote:
So if I buy a diesel XL/ST for $36,000 after rebates and someone else buys a loaded gasser Laramie/Platinum for $46,000 after rebates, I'm expected to recoup cost but the other guy isn't? I don't get it.

Well that is not apples to apples really now is it Go Ducks.

I don't think anyone pays full price for the diesel option, that and the resale on diesel is higher, so the true cost is not $8,000.

I gave a $.50 difference in price and minimized the difference in mileage.

Myself the difference between my old F250 460 ci, and the Ram 5.9 Cummins was double city and almost triple empty highway.

No diesel is not for everyone, and Ford did a great job of using some of the most unreliable diesel engines, with high maintenance cost. This leads to the belief that all diesels are troublesome.

Now they build their own diesels, so you need to pay what they feel repair parts are worth.

With my Cummins, I have three parts choices;
Parts house
Dodge/Ram dealer
Cummins NW

I have found that buying from Cummins is usually the best price.

[goducks10]

So if I buy a diesel XL/ST for $36,000 after rebates and someone else buys a loaded gasser Laramie/Platinum for $46,000 after rebates, I'm expected to recoup cost but the other guy isn't? I don't get it.