Installed a Micro-Air Soft Start today

[Boatycall]

So there's a backstory first ---

When I bought my 1160, I got it 6mos old used. Original owner bought it stripped - no AC, no gen, not even any TVs. I got a helluva deal on it, and first thing I did was put in not the normal 11k btu roof air, but a 13.5. First problem - PITA to try and get one Honda 2000 to run it... got a second 2000. Well... two 2000's - that's it's own PITA.

Put in a MicroAir Soft Start in my roof air today - worked as advertised. One single 2000 fired it right off, from eco mode, it rev'd up, but not even to full throttle, no problem. Got it from Hutch Mountain.com, people that specialize in propane conversions for Honda gens. Great people, ask for Clayton, tell him my name (Jim, not Boatycall), he might give ya a break.

Mods/admin -- Disclaimer - I get nothing nor am I affiliated with hutch Mountain. Just passing on a good product from good people.

[Travels_with_Yo]

The one in discussion here is about $295

[BradW]

So what did that thing cost? Seems like I looked at them a few years back and they cost about 75% of what the a/c unit cost.

[opnspaces]

Weird, it must have something to do with using the batteries to break the compressor free initially (maybe old stiff bearing grease) then the generator is able to keep up from there.

Maybe try flipping the breaker on the battery charger so all the current from the generator goes to the AC.

[17oaks]

opnspaces wrote:

17oaks wrote:

opnspaces wrote:

17oaks wrote:
Been there done that:

Then one hot summer night about 3 am I said Ah-Ha and I headed out to the barn and did this:

1) Unplugged and flipped the switch on my AF 1150 to the battery. Turned on my AC unit and it fired right up, blew cold like it always did.

2) Fired up my Onan and flipped the switch over to Gen power...AC still blowing cold air.

3) Did a few things from our trip that past weekend and flipped it over on external power.

Not sure how long that will last, but so far it's been over 2 years.

Granted I don't have a TC, but I'm curious about your post. Can you elaborate, what was the Ah-Ha moment that came to you? Were you thinking there was a sticky transfer switch or something? Do you have to start the AC on battery power then flip to gen power while it's running?

After talking to the engineer at Coleman I knew the problem:

Old unit, wear, and tear, need more juice to start, thus soft start devices which are just capacitors. As time goes by the compressor gets older and more tired, thus needed even more than the capacitor can deliver...BUT, my 2 Odessey Group 31 Extreme batteries were good for about 1800 amps. My Onan won't give me that. That was my Ah Ha moment at about 3 am. I tried it and bingo it works.

That was 3 years ago and still works. All you are doing is bypassing the Onan to start then switching over to the Onan after its running. NOTE: Either wait till the AC cycles off the compressor or do it manually by turning up the temp control so just the fan is running, then switch over to the Onan and slowly raise the temp control until the compressor kicks in, the Onan should be able to run with it, mine does.

I do know I am running on borrowed time as the AC unit is 11 yr old, still blowing cold!

So you basically start the AC in two stages, fan then compressor. Thinking out loud about this I would wonder why you need the batteries to get a cold start out of the AC, but then can go to the generator and it will successfully cycle the compressor?

Based on what you said about success with waiting for the compressor to kick off, then flip to generator, I wonder if it would work to ignore the batteries and just start the fan for a minute or two, then turn on the AC. My Coleman has that capability though your's might not.

I tried that by itself, Onan, fan on, then the compressor. That never worked. That said after a while I seemed to run out of luck with starting the fan with batteries and then flipping to Onan the turning on the compressor, my success rate fell.

WHY? My guess is either: Running the compressor for a bit on the batteries loosened it up and the Onan will start it...OR I just caught the compressor on the downstroke.

Of late I have had to get it all running off the batteries and then flip over to the Onan, but the AC is OLD and getting older. It's all based upon wear and tear on the unit and it just gets harder to start as time goes by...kinda like me in the mornings.:)

[opnspaces]

17oaks wrote:

opnspaces wrote:

17oaks wrote:
Been there done that:

Then one hot summer night about 3 am I said Ah-Ha and I headed out to the barn and did this:

1) Unplugged and flipped the switch on my AF 1150 to the battery. Turned on my AC unit and it fired right up, blew cold like it always did.

2) Fired up my Onan and flipped the switch over to Gen power...AC still blowing cold air.

3) Did a few things from our trip that past weekend and flipped it over on external power.

Not sure how long that will last, but so far it's been over 2 years.

Granted I don't have a TC, but I'm curious about your post. Can you elaborate, what was the Ah-Ha moment that came to you? Were you thinking there was a sticky transfer switch or something? Do you have to start the AC on battery power then flip to gen power while it's running?

After talking to the engineer at Coleman I knew the problem:

Old unit, wear, and tear, need more juice to start, thus soft start devices which are just capacitors. As time goes by the compressor gets older and more tired, thus needed even more than the capacitor can deliver...BUT, my 2 Odessey Group 31 Extreme batteries were good for about 1800 amps. My Onan won't give me that. That was my Ah Ha moment at about 3 am. I tried it and bingo it works.

That was 3 years ago and still works. All you are doing is bypassing the Onan to start then switching over to the Onan after its running. NOTE: Either wait till the AC cycles off the compressor or do it manually by turning up the temp control so just the fan is running, then switch over to the Onan and slowly raise the temp control until the compressor kicks in, the Onan should be able to run with it, mine does.

I do know I am running on borrowed time as the AC unit is 11 yr old, still blowing cold!

So you basically start the AC in two stages, fan then compressor. Thinking out loud about this I would wonder why you need the batteries to get a cold start out of the AC, but then can go to the generator and it will successfully cycle the compressor?

Based on what you said about success with waiting for the compressor to kick off, then flip to generator, I wonder if it would work to ignore the batteries and just start the fan for a minute or two, then turn on the AC. My Coleman has that capability though your's might not.

[17oaks]

Rbertalotto wrote:

. I prob installed a good 5 or 6 different makes and brands of devices that you can buy to start your roof RV AC.

Interesting. Other than simple capacitors and this soft start device, I've not seen any other Dr ice that accomplished the same thing.

Can you list a fewthat you have indtalled?

Thanks

Its been awhile, but I had the wife order some off e bay, Amazon and TWeety's. They run about $20-$30, its a capacitor and you replace the one you have with xyz.

I never had any issues with it starting off pole power, but my 2500 Onan would not kick the compressor on and that is what I was wanting...not that we boondock often, but there are times I want or need to. Fine in winter, but summer in S Tx and AZ...no way!

[Rbertalotto]

. I prob installed a good 5 or 6 different makes and brands of devices that you can buy to start your roof RV AC.

Interesting. Other than simple capacitors and this soft start device, I've not seen any other Dr ice that accomplished the same thing.

Can you list a fewthat you have indtalled?

Thanks

[17oaks]

work2much wrote:
The Micro-air soft start is more than just a bigger "hard start" capacitor. Here is my install on a Dometic Penguin 11.5k unit.

This is the brains of the system. It learns from each successive start for the first few starts of the compressor and creates a custom profile for your air conditioner. I watched our battery monitor and the spike in wattage did decrease with each start through our inverter.


Because this module was too big to fit where the old removed start capacitor was located they have you mount it on the opposite side of the unit and a cable bundle crosses over back to the air conditioners electrical circuits.



Old start cap removed.



New wires routed in. And connected.


The company is great to deal with and they have detailed installation instructions for specific air conditioner units online. I had a couple questions that they answered very quickly vis e-mail. The install was pretty easy. If you have basic wiring skills you can do this yourself. If your smaller generator is having a hard time bumping the condenser give one a try.

I talked with them and yes they are good to talk with.. I prob installed a good 5 or 6 different makes and brands of devices that you can buy to start your roof RV AC. I saw no use for the "custom profile" so I took a pass on it along with keeping my $300 bucks.

Saving the money and figuring out how to start it off my batteries which has never failed is good enough for me. YEA I stayed awake night thinking on that but that's just the engineer in me. A good deal of my career found me watching the sun come up trying to solve a problem for the day or week before, LOL. Those were the days andI would not have it any other way!

[work2much]

The Micro-air soft start is more than just a bigger "hard start" capacitor. Here is my install on a Dometic Penguin 11.5k unit.

This is the brains of the system. It learns from each successive start for the first few starts of the compressor and creates a custom profile for your air conditioner. I watched our battery monitor and the spike in wattage did decrease with each start through our inverter.



Because this module was too big to fit where the old removed start capacitor was located they have you mount it on the opposite side of the unit and a cable bundle crosses over back to the air conditioners electrical circuits.



Old start cap removed.



New wires routed in. And connected.





The company is great to deal with and they have detailed installation instructions for specific air conditioner units online. I had a couple questions that they answered very quickly vis e-mail. The install was pretty easy. If you have basic wiring skills you can do this yourself. If your smaller generator is having a hard time bumping the condenser give one a try.

[17oaks]

opnspaces wrote:

17oaks wrote:
Been there done that:

Then one hot summer night about 3 am I said Ah-Ha and I headed out to the barn and did this:

1) Unplugged and flipped the switch on my AF 1150 to the battery. Turned on my AC unit and it fired right up, blew cold like it always did.

2) Fired up my Onan and flipped the switch over to Gen power...AC still blowing cold air.

3) Did a few things from our trip that past weekend and flipped it over on external power.

Not sure how long that will last, but so far it's been over 2 years.

Granted I don't have a TC, but I'm curious about your post. Can you elaborate, what was the Ah-Ha moment that came to you? Were you thinking there was a sticky transfer switch or something? Do you have to start the AC on battery power then flip to gen power while it's running?

After talking to the engineer at Coleman I knew the problem:

Old unit, wear, and tear, need more juice to start, thus soft start devices which are just capacitors. As time goes by the compressor gets older and more tired, thus needed even more than the capacitor can deliver...BUT, my 2 Odessey Group 31 Extreme batteries were good for about 1800 amps. My Onan won't give me that. That was my Ah Ha moment at about 3 am. I tried it and bingo it works.

That was 3 years ago and still works. All you are doing is bypassing the Onan to start then switching over to the Onan after its running. NOTE: Either wait till the AC cycles off the compressor or do it manually by turning up the temp control so just the fan is running, then switch over to the Onan and slowly raise the temp control until the compressor kicks in, the Onan should be able to run with it, mine does.

I do know I am running on borrowed time as the AC unit is 11 yr old, still blowing cold!

[opnspaces]

17oaks wrote:
Been there done that:

Then one hot summer night about 3 am I said Ah-Ha and I headed out to the barn and did this:

1) Unplugged and flipped the switch on my AF 1150 to the battery. Turned on my AC unit and it fired right up, blew cold like it always did.

2) Fired up my Onan and flipped the switch over to Gen power...AC still blowing cold air.

3) Did a few things from our trip that past weekend and flipped it over on external power.

Not sure how long that will last, but so far it's been over 2 years.

Granted I don't have a TC, but I'm curious about your post. Can you elaborate, what was the Ah-Ha moment that came to you? Were you thinking there was a sticky transfer switch or something? Do you have to start the AC on battery power then flip to gen power while it's running?

[Rbertalotto]

There is really no "programming"...you just need to cycle it a few times so it learns your AC unit. No big deal.

[jimh406]

Interesting, I thought those devices were plug and play. Too bad they can’t send them to you already programmed.

[otrfun]

Boatycall wrote:
. . fire up the roof air 5 times, with 5 minute wait times in between to avoid locked rotor---this is so the MicroAir can learn and adjust/optimize to the start surge . . .

FYI, this step is supposed to be done on commercial power. Important to get full inrush/startup current during this 5-cycle "learn" process.

Also, if you change your a/c unit or change any major components (run cap, compressor, etc.) you should run this learn process over again. To do this you have to temporarily move a jumper inside the Micro Air unit to clear the previous learn process.

[otrfun]

Boatycall wrote:
. . . put in not the normal 11k btu roof air, but a 13.5 . . . Put in a MicroAir Soft Start in my roof air today - worked as advertised. One single 2000 fired it right off, from eco mode, it rev'd up, but not even to full throttle, no problem . . .

Northern Lite advertises how the 10k Dometic Penguin II a/c units in their campers can be easily started by a Honda EU2000i/EU2200i. We were disappointed to find out our Honda EU2200i had a heck of a time starting the a/c unit in our new 2019 8-11. Come to find out NL had mistakenly installed a 13.5k a/c unit. Considered keeping the 13.5k and installing a Micro Air Easy Start. However, noticed the 13.5k unit cooled down the camper too fast---too fast in the sense the compressor didn't run long enough to dehumidify. Nothing like being cool and "sticky" at the same time. NL sent us a 10k unit to replace the 13.5k. The 10k has more than enough capacity to cool (and dehumidify) the 8-11 nicely and only draws 10 amps. The 13.5k drew 14 amps. That's a big difference in load (i.e., wear and tear) for a small Honda 2000/2200 watt generator---not to mention the generator is much quieter running with a 10a load vs. 14a.

FWIW, even though the Honda EU2200i started the 10k unit "ok" (the EU2200i still strained a bit), we went ahead and installed the Micro Air Easy Start on the 10k. Now there's only a minor blip in RPM when the compressor turns on--barely noticeable. For the long haul it's going to reduce the wear and tear on the Honda significantly.