Just Thinking aloude, Class A Toy hauler vs. TC

[serpa4]

I've been mostly a Truck Camper guy for about 10 years. My tow vehicle is a 2007 GMC 1T dually duramax (paid in full).
I've had a 8' truck camper, 10' TC, 21' 5th wheel, 11.5 TC, 11.5 TC w/slide, 35' Toy Hauler travel trailer, and currently back to a 9.5 TC with slide. I'd really like a couch!!! and hate sitting at the table to watch TV. I went from a 35' Toy hauler back to a 9.5 TC/wet bath. My previous TC was an Arctic Fox 11.5 with the full wall slide, dry bath. So, I shrank 2 feet, smaller slide, and went from dry to wet bath. Perhaps a mistake and that is why I'm thinking of something new. The price was great, but apparently not meeting my needs.

I keep going back to a TC because I have a 21' pontoon boat and 4 ATV that I equally use. I'm not a rich guy at all, I just get one thing at a time. I'm looking at used stuff to keep the price down and none of those $200,000 RVs. Maybe a Class A toy hauler somewhere in the $60,000 to $80,000 range and maybe more depending on what the deal is.

I've been itching for a little more room lately from my current 9.5 Host Raineer TC. Nothing huge by any means.

My main needs are: 1 a vehicle to launch my pontoon boat and get around town when not towing. I don't like the idea of tearing up camp to launch my boat or drive into town almost daily. I don't leave my boat in the water or in a slip while camping. I also don't often camp right where i ride my ATV, so the truck without the camper has been convenient to get the boat to the ramps, ATV to the parks, and tootling around town while camping. It meets all my needs except it not convenient "sometimes" in small towns and lack of space in a truck camper.

I was walking around the RV park here in Key West and saw a 40' Toy Hauler Class A. That got me thinking....

I can put a small 4x4 in the rear; like a Suzuki Samurai from the mid 1990s. They will fit in a 12' garage and only weigh about 2100 lbs. Thus, I would be under the weight capacity of the class A toy hauler and fit in a garage. I'd use the Samurai to launch and retrieve the boat. I would not be used to go more than .5 miles to the camp site boat ramps and probably never leave 2nd gear. 4x4 would help on slippery ramps. Then I could also use the Samurai to get around town. I.e. my dually doesn't fit down the streets in Key West and 12mpg isn't great either.

From all my readings so far, only one Class A works, the Gulf Stream Bounty Hunter. The other two I found, Newmar Canyon Star and Thor Outlaw garages are too small.

It comes with a v10 and I believe the v10 gas will be under powered for the 24,000 lbs GVWR. I'm currently in South Carolina, but will be going back to the Rockies in Colorado Springs next year! I don't think a V10 gas with a 2,100 lb car in the back and towing either a 2,000 lb pontoon or 2,500 lbs of ATV will work.

I currently get about 11-12 mpg in my truck with a trailer (boat/atv) and 14 with just the truck camper. Seems most class A with the v10 in a 25-35' Class get about 6-9 mpg. When towing, they are at about 7. I'll be towing and in a 40' Class A also, so I'm expecting about 6-7mpg.

What do you think about the v10:
1) 6-7 mpg sound about right?
2) Will it have sufficient power for 24,000 lbs and 2,000-2,500 lb trailer in the mountains?

Any other way to tow a boat or ATV, and have a vehicle to get around and launch a boat? Either a Class A TH or a truck camper is all I can think of.

P.S. I'm looking to get a Host Cascade double slide truck camper that is anther foot longer, would have a couch and table, and one more slide than I currently have. Plus, the floor of the camper is raised so it will have a 8' wide floor vs. my current one with a 5' floor width.

I need to decide which way best meets my needs; stay with a TC and just go back to a larger one or try a Class A? I don't want a 11.5 TC. They are too long with a very heavy hitch extension. My AF 11.5 TC literally bent my 2007 GMC 1T Dually factory springs! It, fully loaded with water was freaking 5,100 lbs! From my calculations, a Host Cascade with options, packed with all my current stuff (a lot) and fully wet (propane, water,batteries, etc) would be about 4,200. My door sticker says 4,100 lbs.

I think the v10 mpg and lack of power might be a deal breaker for me. Plus I've been some places I'd never go with a Class A. Not many, but they were sweet camping spots.

[serpa4]

Not overly durable eh? I'm sure I'll just get a larger truck camper. Thanks for your time. I've gone big before towing doubles and also the 35' toy hauler was a travel trailer and thus really about 40 from truck bumper to trailer bumper. I really didn't like going big. Space was nice, but simple things like gas and groceries can become a pain really fast. Even on my trip right now my TC and boat got in a really tight spot. Went for dairy queen and turned one entrance early and ended up in a busy night club parking lot. Ran over a couple curbs trying to get out. Even a 40 rv would have has some trouble let a lone one with a 21 foot boat.

[Boatycall]

serpa4 wrote:

I was walking around the RV park here in Key West and saw a 40' Toy Hauler Class A. That got me thinking....

I can put a small 4x4 in the rear like a Suzuki Samurai...I'd use the Samurai to launch and retrieve the boat.

P.S. I'm looking to get a Host Cascade double slide truck camper that is anther foot longer, would have a couch and table

I had a setup similar in size to what you're talking about. I had a 5th Wheel TH hauling a Sammy that I wheeled, broke, and fixed(over and over.) First - Don't tow with the Sammy. Here's what I used to haul around---





Here's what I can tell you about having a rig similar in size to this MH TH you're considering---

1-- A 40' MH hauling a 21' boat will not fit anywhere. You don't realize how much bigger till you go to Safeway for groceries or Shell for fuel, then you go "Rut Roh Raggy". It will be a total PITA to drive just about anywhere. Keep the truck/TC combo. I sold my Toyhauler for this very reason, too frickin big.

2-- truck is paid for. Keep it.

3-- DON'T tow with the Sammy, even slowly. The ring and pinions are extremely small, lightweight, geared hi, and you'll snap something or burn up the clutch trying. I rebuilt the gears and clutch in mine a couple times. Same with the transfer case. Very light duty, I've broke and rebuilt one twice. And as if that's not enough, the Tcase casing cracks easily under heavy torque.

[Grit_dog]

With all the different stuff you tow, I'd say keep the Dmax. Find or modify a TC to fit your needs for comfort and get a decent sized enclosed trailer to haul the off road Toyz when needed.
You could even flat tow a little jeep/ samurai so as not have to unload the camper if that's all your taking with.
And no way a 24k lb rig with a Ferd V10 is adequate in the CO mtns. My V10 pickup with a small trailer was wound out in CO. You'll want to kill yourself after pulling the first grade without the Dmax under the pedal!

[jimh406]

You could take out the dinette and add a love seat. A few here have done that with good success. La-z-boy apparently is the brand since they come apart to go through the door.

I do like the looks of the Class A Toy Haulers, but they have relatively light cargo weights for the ones that I looked at online. They are also huge in comparison and the major benefit seems to be sleeping capability. While I was searching, I noted that there are small toy haulers as well down to 17 ft. That might be an option.

[Explorer1016]

Hi Serpa4,

I haven't read all of the comments in your post yet due to lack of time but I did read your intro post. I had a '11 Dmax in a LB DRW with a 9' TC and a 20' enclosed trailer to tow my rock crawler '87 Jeep Wrangler. My trailer is 8' high and 8' wide to get the Jeep inside with the suspension lift and 35" tires. Trailer, with Jeep, generator, tools, work bench etc weighs in at a little over 9000#.

I had the same dilema you face with lack of space in the TC but to tow the trailer I needed something with lots of horse power to drive through the mountains in Colorado and Utah. The Dmax/Allison combo is hands down the best there is. However, still needing to tow the load and wanting a dry bath and more room I found a 2008 Host 300 Super C on the Ford F550 chassis. I have the 4x4 capability needed, the diesel engine (even though it is a 6.4 Ford and not a Dmax) plus I have the towing capability required. The rig is 30' nose to rear bumper with crew cab. It is basically a large TC on a chassis. The floor of the coach is only 18' long but it has 3 slides. Unlike a TC with a rear slide, we can still get into the coach through the cab of the truck when all 3 slides are in. We can access the fridge and the bathroom and absolutly love that!! For our needs, this was the perfect rig. The Ford diesel still only gets about 7 mpg towing with the 4.56 gears in the huge Dana rear end, (it also has a Dana 60 front axle under it) but I am going to fix that. I am going to install some new goodies, more than likely from Banks Engineering, and increase the HP and the MPG. I consider the up front expense an investment or buying diesel fuel in advance because my calculations show the modifications paying for themselves in 17,000 to 20,000 miles using $4/gal of fuel as my benchmark.

I am NOT trying to sell Host Campers, however, they make a 33' Tow Hauler, a 27 and the 30 footers. The Coach is built very solid and we have GINORMACE storage inside and out. I have had the rig for 1 month now and other than being a Ford, I am very satisfied. I will make my mods over the next several months and see what actual fuel improvements I get in real world. Good luck on your research!

[Seamutt]

Replace the table and bench with a couch and removable table. You will loose storage though but I have seen it done.

[serpa4]

I don't spend too much time in my rv. I'm out riding atv, boating, or sight seeing hence my love of a TC. I'm just not liking siting at the table for every occasion whether it's talking, TV, or whatever. I'd like two areas to sit. This week in the florida Keys was too hot to sit outside and we were done boating for the day. So, my son was at the table playing a game, I was on the internet, and my wife was watching TV... All at the table. Ugh.
I'm leaning towards a larger TC with a couch and dinette.

[serpa4]

MTRhino wrote:
The only other alternative I can think of is to get a short 5th wheel and pull the toys behind that. Not all states allow pulling double trailers but it is legal here in MT. We did this for a while with a 27ft fiver and a 20 foot boat. It worked ok but there was no way the wife was going to drive it and the hooking up and unhooking all the time got real old. Also have to be very careful where you fuel and where you go due to the length and extra hinge point. Not real fun to pull in heavy winds either.

Been there done that! I did a year with a 22 foot
5th wheel and a 20 boat. I had my double tripple endorsement in Ca. I got in a couple bad spots and had to unhook. No more of that for me. And my wife would never drive either. No quick stops at McD, gassing up was a major event, etc.. You know the pain also eh?

[Budster]

reading your situation I was wondering how much time do you spend inside the RV? Do you really need all the room a class A offers? I know when I go out I spend the late hours in the RV, then go to sleep. Morning have breakfast, then outside do my things all day. I had a 9 1/2' TC for 24 years, raised one child with it and never felt like I needed more room than what was there in the TC. I next went to a 22' class C which was slightly larger than a TC and still spent the same amount of time out of the RV. Then I went to a TT so I could drive around to see the sights, nice but really wasn't necessary. Then I went back to a 8' TC and still it met my needs. I did fall out of the overhead in the middle of the night while boondocking with my dog, no cell service, and waking up to sunlight and the dog barking and licking my face. Fortunately I was not seriously injured, no blood, no broken bones, just a sore back. I was lucky. My wife insisted that I no longer have an RV where I had to sleep in the overhead bed. So these days I am back to a class C. I am presently in Iowa at the Northstar factory visiting with Rex (the owner), we discussed building a custom flatbed TC, but since I am spoiled with the room I now have the TC would have been 15' long and 8' wide (would that still be a TC? Probably because I could remove it from the truck, but then that is too big for a TC, plus I would need to 'stretch' the frame on the truck, and on and on.

In summary, rethink your 'inside time' of the RV, do you really need 'bigger'

[MTRhino]

The only other alternative I can think of is to get a short 5th wheel and pull the toys behind that. Not all states allow pulling double trailers but it is legal here in MT. We did this for a while with a 27ft fiver and a 20 foot boat. It worked ok but there was no way the wife was going to drive it and the hooking up and unhooking all the time got real old. Also have to be very careful where you fuel and where you go due to the length and extra hinge point. Not real fun to pull in heavy winds either.

[Jfet]

Your situation is very similar to where we found ourselves. We needed the ability to haul/launch a boat, carry 2 motorcycles and 2 snowmobiles, and do it all in a package that isn't a 70 foot long train.

We ended up building our own (still under construction) but I would look seriously into a super C toyhauler like the Renegade or Jayco Seneca ZX. The Funmovers on the super C are *ok* also.

A used Seneca is going to set you back about 70k.

[serpa4]

No, my boat is on a storage lot. I go to as many different lakes as possible. I love to see new places.

[69_Avion]

You are asking a lot for one rig. Do you keep your boat at the lake so you aren't towing it?