let's talk generators

[campn4walleye]

I've got another thread going concerning solar power. Many of you are proponents of generators. Our unit is also wired for one. Can a Honda gen fit into our compartment? No offense out there, I still think the Onan is loud and annoying (that's the one that the factory would have installed).

I know that I'm asking a lot of different questions, but I want to know the options and be well informed to make the right choice for us. We're pretty self sufficient and run a lot of power. I think the biggest draw besides the jacks is the fridge.

This is the difference with the TC world. The jacks take a lot of power. If it weren't for them, we would have had plenty.

We're always learning something.

[full_mosey]

bka0721 wrote:

...
What battery do I recommend? Either. Follow my questions, above, to help make your decision. Me? I would, and will, keep using 6v batteries. Now if someone would GIVE me $4,000 I would switch to AGM batteries, over FWC batteries, as it was a price point for me, but they would still be 6v.
...
b

Yes, having 5 pairs of 6Vs will abate any concern over a single 6V failure!

1160AH and 600W of solar, wow! No wonder you have a cargo trailer.

Your $ figures are way off. Based on today's prices, 6V FLA GCs are $109. AGM grp 31s and 6Vs are $170 at club stores. (170-109)/109 = 56%. The price premium for AGMs is 56%. 10 x $109 = $1090 for new GCs. $1090 * 156% = $1700 and a difference of $610 for AGMs.

Of course you will only get 1000AH from the AGMs.

Deka specs. Note that there is no advantage for 2 x GC AGMs compared to 2 x 31s for total AHs. The 31s give more AHs.

HTH;
John

[bka0721]

While I value and respect many of the comments and opinions, provided on this thread, my own experiences and use debunk some of these comments and or theories.

I have been using both Solar and Generator, both daily for 2 years each, exclusively for the last 4 years. This includes the exclusive use of an Onan generator, running it at least 2 hours EVERY day for my first 2 years, on the road. Once I installed my first phase of Solar (600w), my generator use extended to about 2 to 6 hours use a month total. I used the Solar exclusively for the last 2 years, EVERY day.

My choice of this testing? Solar. But, I couch that by saying; "If you are only going out for a few days, or a vacation of a week or two, don't waste your limited funds on Solar, just get a higher AmpH battery/s and generator." Remember a generator can be used for so many issues, beyond a Truck Camper, as well at night, cloudy and snowy days.

If you are blessed with more money in your checking account than I have in mine, and most do, trip the trigger and install at least 100w of Solar with the option to expand. Smaller panels allow more flexibility of placement on the limited landscape on top of a TC. (Use Bigfoorford suggestion of cardboard cut out to the size of your planned solar panels to see how best they fit on your TC Roof) Plus the issues of tilting/snow load that can impact larger panels. If you are unsure on your need/demand, start out with 100w and keep adding another Panel after a year of use, until you meet the happy point where everything matches, sufficient amount of AmpH to operate the luxuries you wish and the amount of PV Watts to achieve Float S.O.C. in your batteries at least daily or within a 48 hr period.

While it is a pile of BS, running around and beating the drum to the song; "The sky is falling. The sky is Falling if you use 6V GC2 batteries and you WILL DIE!" There is a group that trully feel this way and I respect that and the fact that there is a bit of fact in that if you do lose one 6v GC2 battery the other is useless. True. With all the Drama? Not a chance. I think GPS have killed more people, lately, in remote areas than have a malfunctioning Camper battery. I can't think of a camper battery that impacts the starting and operating of an escape vehicle, like your truck, car or boots to the ground.

The first 2 years of fulltiming I started out using 2- 6v GC2 Eagle Batteries and 2- 12v Interstate Grp 27 batteries. At the end of that 2 years, when I switched to Solar, I was still using the 2- 6v GC2 Eagle Batteries and had gone through 7, thats right SEVEN 12v batteries. I switched out all of my 12v batteries (except the Ford Truck batteries) and no longer using them. Now 3 months into my 5th year of fulltiming, I am still using those original 2 - 6vGC2 Eagle Batteries, for my Phase II Solar Bank of batteries (3X100w Solar Panels) and I can't do anything to destroy these batteries, where the 12v batteries couldn't stay alive. At one point I thought they (the Eagle 6v batteries) were dead after discharging them to 10.8v and they came back. I think they like the topping off of the Solar, now, much better than the daily battery charging they once had for the first 2 .5 years of living with me.

Pick a battery type that best meets your needs, not what someone tells you, you HAVE to have. Location is an important issue and whether one battery will fit over another. The type of charging method is an important factor too, depending on 6v vs. 12v and your use.

No one has really brought up Flooded Wet Cell (FWC) over AGM type batteries. I like the AGM and also like the FWC, as I use both. Price ($) was the reason for my choice, as both types would last for about the same amount of time (Cycles), but the price was prohibitive for me. I use 10 batteries, spread between two battery banks and Solar Panel groups. The difference for me, was about $3,000 more for AGM after the initial cost of the FWC. The point for me here, to you, is that most batteries are destroyed by the owner, not by the batteries themselves (remember I killed 7 12v batteries). The biggest killer/longevity of batteries is discharging them below 55% of their S.O.C. Do this too many times and your can pretty much kiss your batteries good bye, after a couple of years. The big killer of Truck Camper batteries is the length of time that the campers sit, unused. During these periods, too often the batteries are not removed (cold can kill batteries) or not maintained (S.O.C.) while stored.

What battery do I recommend? Either. Follow my questions, above, to help make your decision. Me? I would, and will, keep using 6v batteries. Now if someone would GIVE me $4,000 I would switch to AGM batteries, over FWC batteries, as it was a price point for me, but they would still be 6v.

Generators? Excellent question. Don't buy your generator from the Factory!! Get the lines/electrical plumbed in, at the factory, but buy your generator from a Cummins/Onan dealer and have it installed, or do it yourself. Doing it this way you can save 25 to 30% over the cost of the option from most TC Manufacturers. As for Warranty, on Factory Installed Generators, the TC Manufacturers will send you to a Cummins/Onan Warranty repair service (at least Lance does) anyway. So having the Factory Installed option is useless when you have problems with the generator, which you will.

Which Generator to purchase? Good question. The opinions vary. Many of the top generators are the ones to go with(Red, Blue, Green). Being stuck with a broken generator is a big consideration, during a trip and the fact of how loud they are, is a consideration in how I make my choice.

I have an Onan Generator, installed from the Factory (Lance). It is convenient and it runs on Propane. All of these facts have been discussed. My exprerience is that the Onan is problematic. I have had two Onan Generators. The first one was replaced after 1900 hrs of daily use. The generator was rebult 4 times, before being replaced under warranty. The issue was Oil Blow by. Onan manufactured more than 2000 Onan 2500LP generators with a machining error in the head, allowing oil to drain through the engine and, ultimately, clogging the air filter. While Onan does not offer a recall, they have quietly replaced these problematic generators, when still under warranty. (That is how I know that the price of these generators are cheaper at the Cummins/Onan dealers, installed.) The second Onan Generator was installed and had only been in for warranty (when it would no longer start) due to a voltage regulator issue, spiking of voltage which damaged a few things inside my TC. They replaced the panel and it has been working fine, since, for almost another 1900 hrs of use. But that might be because I finally purchased a HONDA EU3000i Generator. The HONDA worked great the first 9 months I had it until I switched to Solar. After that it was only used on occasion. One day I was using the HONDA, when I was out on the motorcycle, to power my A/C in the Mojave Desert. When I returned, it was making a terrible racket. Something like a rock in a tin can. I turned it off and tried to look for the problem and didn't find it. When trying to restart it and it wouldn't start, elec start or rope pull (rope pulled out and would not retract).

Because I have redundancy on everything, (I won't die in the desert, even when people don't know where I am) the HONDA (I purchased it because everyone on the RV.net Forum told me that HONDAs were bullett proof), I continued on my adventure. I just pushed the HONDA off to the side and the Onan became my generator of use, when I needed one. The HONDA issue happened in early May. By November I came to a town where they serviced Inverter HONDA Generators and they fixed it under warranty. The problem? A bolt had dropped out of the manifold and dropped into the flywheel and sheared off the starter. The generator would run, you just couldn't get it started. In reviewing HONDA Generators issues, they have a continuing issue with bolts coming loose and dropping down into things and tearing things up. The biggest issue is one they have with a bolt falling into the cylinder and destroying the engine.

Conclusion? Not all Generators are created best, no matter what you hear, they all have problems. Pick one that best meets your needs and don't rely on it to save your life. Have a back up plan.

b

[69_Avion]

the bear II wrote:
You may be better off adding batteries and a small generator to charge them with. I had 4 batteries and a 1000 watt Honda and it took care of our needs including lights and a TV/DVD combo.

With just the batteries we could go for almost 3 days before needing a recharge. For a week if we were power conserving (coleman lantern instead of lights).

The Hondas are not designed to be used in an enclosed are but will work if you have a fan and vent the exhaust.

I have a 1994 Yamaha 1000 watt generator and a new Honda 2000 Companion. I bought the Honda when I was having some gas tank issues with my old Yamaha. Since I got the Yamaha fixed, I haven't even run the Honda. The new 1000 inverter generators are really nice and they are enough to run my AC (5000 btu) in my camper, charge the batteries and run the computer or DVD player. The new Honda 2000i weighs about the same (maybe a little less) than my old Yamaha 1000. Since I don't have electric jacks on my camper, I don't need any more power than 1000 watts. I don't even need that if I'm not running the AC. I can get by for several days on two fully charged 12 volt batteries since I am using 100% LED lights and the only other significant use of electricity is the heater fan during cold days.
As far as 6 volt vs 12 volt, I'm sure the larger 6 volt batteries will produce more power, but for me I don't use all my 12 volt power so it doesn't pay for me to go to the extreme. Besides, if one of my truck batteries goes bad, (diesel) I am set up so I can use one of my Camper batteries to get me going again. I like redundancy.

[full_mosey]

motorsports wrote:

The reality is that this list is basically hearsay, and lacks electrical facts.

Here's a little video explaining why 6v are better...but only by about 6%> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGNMenyNqwU

The video is the same-ole,same-ole story about comparing two smaller 12V to two larger 6V measured on total AH. Factual, but total mis/dis-information!

The second fault is comparing dual purpose/hybrid 12Vs to Deep-cycle 6Vs. In this case, yes, the 6Vs will run your furnace fan longer, but not your microwave.

Also, yes, you will get more cycles from the 6Vs.

🙂

HTH;
John

[Oldtymeflyr]

Personally I dislike generators, they are noisy and just more work. Our electrical loads are low.

Solar works well and we charge two 6 volt batteries (lead acid) that are now in their 7th season and going strong. Our solar system is rated for a whole 80 watts.

As far as 12 volt vs. 6 volt batteries, take your pick. I would probably replace our 6 volt batteries with the same, they have served us well. Batteries don't just fail. They generally give warning.

As far as it goes, we have been in as remote an area as anyone in the US and Canada and if a camper battery fails we can keep on going without much inconvenience. We basically loose our lights and would switch to a propane lantern. For us its not a big deal.

In the winter the rules do change a little, we camp in some pretty remote areas of the mountains. we carry a small charging generator (350 watts) to help in case we had a failure of the truck batteries. We have never used it.

Skip the generator and go with a decent solar package. I will admit that 80 watts is a little on the low side, but it works well for us and if we were going to do anything, we would add another bigger panel, just to have more reserve for the rainy and cloudy days.

Good Luck.

[motorsports]

I fear we stray from the OP's topic, and should probably start a new thread on this.

Reddog1 RV list> Thank you for that information. I've never subscribed to the dogma that RV manufacturers only put out what's best for the consumer. My observation is that the vast majority of them sell what's convenient and inexpensive. That's why a huge amount of the posts on these forums are about modifying the RV's we have to be better.

The reality is that this list is basically hearsay, and lacks electrical facts.

Here's a little video explaining why 6v are better...but only by about 6%> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGNMenyNqwU

What the video doesn't address is that golf cart batteries will take a 50% discharge hundreds of times more than most (maybe all?) 12v deep cycle batteries due to their thicker plates.

My personal experience bears out this 50% discharge superiority. I will admit surprise that the GC batteries are only 6% better in available power, as anecdotally it seems much more to me, but I defer to science on this.

To each his own. I'm more than content with my battery choice, and am pleased that the rest of you are content with yours.

[skipbee]

I completely concur with Sleepy regarding 12 volt vs. 6 volt. With 3 type 29 AGM 12 volt batteries we have NEVER had a dead battery situation in 9 years of extensive usage. We use 120 watts of solar, a Onan Generator that is most convenient, I believe the noise factor is over blown, although the Honda and Yamaha gens are very servicable, at our ages, just pushing a button is better. By exercising the Onan monthly for an hour, under load, it is dependable.

There is much solving of non-existant problems sometimes. I have found no need for extra heavy, extra large 6 volt batteries. Experience is the best teacher, so they say!

[Reddog1]

Personally, I think 6-volt golf batteries are great for golf carts. I also think that battery technology has advanced to the point that the Golf cart batteries are obsolete in a Rv of any type.

What RV manufacture uses (special order excepted) 6-volt Golf Cart batteries? I'm thinking which of these manufactures use 6-volt Golf Cart flooded wet cell batteries:

Airstream
American Carriage
American Coach Works
ARI
Coaches by Dare
Country Coach
Creative Mobile Interiors
Dynamax
Earth Roamer
Executive Coach
Four Winds
Featherlite
Fleetwood Motor Homes
Four Winds Intl Inc.
Gulf Stream Bus
Hoffman Coach
Integrity Motor Coach
Innovative Coach Works
LDV
Mattman Company
Millennium Luxury Coach
Mirage Mfg Co.
Marathon Coach, Inc
Monaco Coach
New Horizons
Newmar
NRC
Newell Coach
Outlaw Conversions
Pace American
Parliament Coach
Sports Mobile
Thompson Coach
Travel Supreme
Renegade
Royale Coach
Vantare
Premier Motor Coach

[sleepy]

Just a reminder... your battery has to be charged to start your generator if it's electric start.

[77charger]

Came close to buying a honda 1k for my camper.There small and it was basically going to be used for batt recharging or small stuff.There are some weekends i know for sure A/C will not be needed.
I already have a honda 3000 i use its mainly on idle most of the time.My last trip for a week i didnt even use a full tank of fuel in it.

[motorsports]

The "unprepared dummy" responds>

I've got a generator, remember??....and if there's a real emergency, there's a 12v battery in the truck for gosh sakes.

You've got two 12 volt batteries?...what if BOTH fail?!

Holy ****, what then??!!

The fact is, MANY RV folks have been using two 6v batteries for longer than I can remember....and I'm sure we've all heard the countless stories of stranded RV's, right? These boards are full of them....uh huh.

Personally, I've used the golf cart batteries for over 10 years without issue. In fact, they've lasted YEARS longer than any other battery I've ever had.

But the real plus is how much longer they last than even a deep cycle 12v battery when boondocking. They are just awesome.

As always....YMMV.

[sleepy]

Someone mentioned 6VDC golf Batteries in series

DO NOT USE 6 VDC BATTERIES

Think about it...

if one fails... what do you do with the other... what does one good 6VDC battery do for you?

The OP just got caught with no battery power in his truck camper to run his jacks (or anything else)


That is exactally what happens when one of the 6 VDC golf batteries fail.

Now... think about where TC people go to boondock... and how often do others really know where you are. Think about an emergency caused by illness or an accident... and you are down to one 6VDC battery.

When you are found you might be on the nightly news... as the unprepared dummy that got stranded along with his family... had to be rescued.

With two 12VDC batteries in parallel... one fails... you'll be OK!

That makes you look like a genius doesn't it, at least to your family.

[narcodog]

Since you are frugal with your amps you should have no problem with your jacks. I guess I'm looking at it from perspective as I have only unloaded my camper one time. That was to drive forty miles to get a tire repaired.

It had a nail in it and didn't want to drive all that way with a low tire. Now I have a pump and plug kit.

[Reddog1]

campn4walleye wrote:
Me again,

I mis-spoke...we DON'T run much power. We are conservative with our lights. Our LEDs are the good ones that do handle power fluxes. I rarely use the microwave (I store the toaster and bread in it.) We only use the AC when it's REALLY hot for the dogs. If it's too hot, we don't go. We are not heat lovers.

Of course the fridge is run on propane if elec is not available. A tank usually lasts us a season.

You were holding out on us, I don't recall you mentioning having LEDs. :B The LEDs definitely help.

In your first post you wrote; "I think the biggest draw besides the jacks is the fridge." That led me to understand you were running your fridge on 12-volts. It is great that you responded with clarification.

campn4walleye wrote:
Maybe I shouldn't have 2 threads going, but I'm trying to keep things from getting blurred. These issues are too complicated (to me) to keep straight. Thanks for all the assistance so far.

Tough call on the two Threads, but I think you did it right. Each has it's own learning curve, especially the Solar stuff. Just accept, we will post in the wrong Thread from time to time.

campn4walleye wrote:
I can honestly say that without this forum, I wouldn't know where to start.

Although there are other RV Forums, I do think everything considerd RV.NET is the better Forum. Do look at the other Forums on RV.NET. I suggest especially the Tech Issues Forum. It will answer many of the questions on Solar and Generators. It is less TC specific, but has many knowledgeable members posting.

When you post acknowledging input, and provide details, you will discover we will will be more helpful to you, and tend to stay on topic more. Keep asking the questions.

Wayne