License plate on Truck? or camper (with overhang)?

[towpro]

In PA we don't have plates on Pickup Truck campers.
I called PennDot and asked the following question:

"my camper hangs 24" over the back of my bumper and makes it hard to read the license plate on the truck".

"Instead of someone moving the license plate between camper and truck every Friday when they load camper, and Sunday when they unload camper, is there a solution like a duplicate license plate?"

After 15 minutes of hold they told me "no, you can't have a duplicate license plate."

I do know in order to get a replacement plate you need a cop to sign a form saying yours was lost or stolen. let alone the BS if you get caught with a duplicate plate on truck and camper.

So I found the law (below). its all about seeing the tag with (money generating) cameras like traffic light and toll booth.

With my overhang, I think a lower mounted toll booth camera or a red light camera that is low enough might see my license plate.
I guess if I am towing my trailer, this don't matter because that would also block the truck tag from cameras, but the trailer has a tag.

Now starting this month, PA no longer has uses little stickers on the plate that show when your registration expires.

Now the police have these cameras that scan all the cars as they drive down the street, and it auto runs every tag number through a database (wireless connection to state) looking for expired tags (as well as outstanding arrest warrants).

I now that a cop car passing me can not see the truck tag unless its some distance behind me.

below in the laws it talks about "at a reasonable distance". Do you think it is reasonable to not be able see the license plate unless you step back about 10 yards so you can see under the camper and fox landing?

last fall when I got eh camper, I moved the tag, but I really don't want to do it. I do unload several times per year.

What would you do?
------------------------------------
laws about obscured tags in PA.

(b) Obscuring plate.--It is unlawful to display on any vehicle a registration plate which:

(1) is so dirty as to prevent the reading of the number or letters thereon at a reasonable distance;

(2) is obscured in any manner which inhibits the proper operation of an automated red light enforcement system in place pursuant to section 3116 (relating to automated red light enforcement systems in first class cities) or 3117 (relating to automated red light enforcement systems in certain municipalities) or any other automated enforcement system authorized by this title or an electronic toll collection system as authorized under 74 Pa.C.S. § 8117 (relating to electronic toll collection);

(3) is otherwise illegible at a reasonable distance or is obscured in any manner; or

(4) is obscured, covered or otherwise obstructed in a manner which inhibits the visibility of the issuing jurisdiction at a reasonable distance.

(c) Penalty for obscured plate.--Any person who violates subsection (b)(2) or (4) commits a summary offense and shall, upon conviction, be sentenced to pay a fine of $100.

[sonuvabug]

pbrooks101 wrote:
... snipped ... I am an active duty law enforcement officer with 27 years under my belt (7 more to retirement!) and hold the rank of Deputy Chief.

I don't think there is one solid answer to this question as it is open to much interpretation by law enforcement all over the country...

Thank you for sharing your professional perspective. I think your final statement about "no one solid answer" hits the nail on the head.

[Dave_Pete]

Laws are laws. We raised our kids telling them that "you just obey the law". If you choose to break the law, you do so with a logical reason prepared, which might excuse you in the mind of the officer at a given stop, and then simply accept the consequences. Example, driving faster than the speed limit or running a rural stop sign when you are the only car around.

Laws are made for a large group, not necessarily for individuals. When individuals decide they are above the law, the result is more laws for we naturally law abiding individuals. You know, we self-governed types.

So why don't we all do each other a favor and learn the law of our state, and abide it? Don't try and bend it, or "get by with something". If the law is bad, get into action with others and get it changed!

Wyoming doesn't require licensing a TC. We bought Lil' Queeny from Oregon where apparently TC licensing is the law.

In Wyoming, the law is to have the truck plated and "visible". You can't let any cargo (or mud) obscure the plate, because the law states its visibility requirements. So these little arguments are the same as "being prepared with a logical reason, but then just take your citation lumps". Better yet, give the cops a break and don't make them pull you over to begin with. Learn your law and abide it.

Regardless of the state, I bet the end result is to have "a" vehicle registration plate visible from the rear in a defined way. Just because a hitch might cover it doesn't mean the law is void.

[Rubiranch]

pbrooks101 wrote:
So I'll start by saying that I am an active duty law enforcement officer

Thank you for your service.

I greatly appreciate what you do for soo many people.

[dadwolf2]

work2much wrote:
I have a similar set up to yours. I move the plate back and forth. It doesn't take me very long and I would rather not give some cop the excuse to stop me.

Ditto

[pbrooks101]

So I'll start by saying that I am an active duty law enforcement officer with 27 years under my belt (7 more to retirement!) and hold the rank of Deputy Chief. I've spent many years on the road in various patrol functions, right through patrol sergeant and shift commander. Also, just about all of the responses I have seen in this thread are from the "left" coast. I am in Vermont and there are not many TC's here on the "right" coast and my response is based in part on the law (Vermont's law), part common sense, and partly my own past practice. I also ran this question by several deputies in my department to see how they would handle it and got pretty much the same response from all of them.

It appears obvious from the varied responses that different states have different requirements. Wash. State issues plates for TC's. Some, including Vermont, do not. Some, it appears, require the plates to be on the truck; no exceptions.

The argument of the TC is cargo seems logical, however what other truck cargo has clearance and/or marker lights, tail light/directional signals, and in most cases, plate illumination lights and two screws that line up with license plate mounting holes as well as an extensive "tie down" system beyond ratchet straps. The law in Vermont, while not specific about tc's, is more silent about what would be required but I nor none of my deputies would be drawn to a TC WITH the plates attached to the TC and clearly visible. Their view (and mine) is the intent of a registration plate is to be visible and common sense would dictate to move the plate if there is a spot for it on a TC. As for me, I move my plate every time and carry an appropriately sized nut driver in the door pocket to do so. It takes about a minute or less to do so.

As for photocopying a plate, that would be a no-no. Under Vermont law that would be a form of "counterfeiting" and a potential "display of plate" violation.

As for out-of-state vehicles - in Vermont (and I imagine most other states) the TC's home state laws would apply. For example, in some states, vehicle inspections are not required. In Vermont they are. An out-of-state vehicle without an inspection sticker WOULD NOT be ticketed in Vermont for no inspection as their home state does not require it.

I don't think there is one solid answer to this question as it is open to much interpretation by law enforcement all over the country...

Good luck and happy TC'ing!

[Rubiranch]

I spoke with a Sargent with the UHP this morning.

He told me "in his opinion" that if I load and unload my camper to go ahead and just leave the plate on the truck.

If I was going leave the camper on the truck for extended periods of time (months) them move the plate to the camper.

He said I could leave it on the truck and never move it to the camper but there's a chance that I "might" get pulled over so they could check to make sure I have a plate, that the registration of the truck is current an that I have ins.

I did not know this for sure in my previous post so I did call the DMV and there is a $10/yr registration fee on my camper.

[Mote]

The first time we took the Lance out I put the plate on the camper. We drove down to the park and unloaded the camper. The next day we drove an hour over to a Bass Pro shop. Once there, we got out of the truck and realized the plate was still on the camper back at the park.:S
We don't unload the camper very often but if we do the first thing I do is switch the plate back to the truck.

[tad94564]

Having been pulled over speeding in Utah (there's a special curve where they chop the speed from 55 to 35 coming in to a little town) with my camper on the superduty, and not having moved the plate to the camper (grey area again - CA law, camper is cargo, not truck, plate must be attached to vehicle, yadda, yadda, yadda)..

The cop leaned over, got my rear plate number and probably peeked at the tags, said 'Here's your ticket, thank you for wearing your seat belt today", then handed me two carbiner keychains as consolation prize, then said "Have a Nice day."

so when I finally get pulled by CHP/Cop/AHJ, and told move the plate, I'll ask what section of california code mandates, and sign my ticket, go to the judge and get clarification on what the heck I'm supposed to do, get it in *writing*, and then carry with me after that..

Of course, I snore when I sleep, and I am probably just dreaming now..

[AnEv942]

Ya that was my only real intent- seams like an easy work around but If you got called on it, though I cant imagine getting cited with a misdemeanor, it might surprise some not knowing the line they actually are crossing. In all honesty this was a plan of mine also till I looked it up- just an FYI

[Rubiranch]

mkirsch wrote:
You go ahead and try making a photocopy of your license plate and see how far you get.

Here in Utah they would tell me to take it off and I'd be on my merry way.

[tattoobob]

AnEv942 wrote:
I'm glad to see some counter the idea of duplicating plates. The potential for a really bad day is huge. Cant imagine how this might seem like a good idea, but FYI-
Most states its against the law, period. While not intentionally pursuing fraudulent intent (just trying to assist LEO reading copy of legal plate), likely only get a warning but copying and representing as actual state issued plate possibly land you in jail and fined. Don't.

Falls under registration fraud, in CA its vehicle code 4463

As far as plate placement, my interpretation is visibility overrides fact its mounted on my 'cargo' and so move it from truck to camper.
On our camper you cant even see what color the plate is if left on truck when camper is mounted. I'm of the opinion folks who work in law enforcement have enough to deal with without trying to figure out where I'm from if they were curious. The fact that I've been doing this for the last 16 years and have never been questioned or cited only means that. Probably could have had it mounted on a propeller on camper roof with same results.

I Move mine from truck to camper when need be, I saw the man I bought the camper from was using this method and he said it worked for him with no problems
I thought of doing it but am to cheap to spend the money so I just move mine.

Sorry for the misinformation I ment no harm

[AnEv942]

I'm glad to see some counter the idea of duplicating plates. The potential for a really bad day is huge. Cant imagine how this might seem like a good idea, but FYI-
Most states its against the law, period. While not intentionally pursuing fraudulent intent (just trying to assist LEO reading copy of legal plate), likely only get a warning but copying and representing as actual state issued plate possibly land you in jail and fined. Don't.

Falls under registration fraud, in CA its vehicle code 4463

As far as plate placement, my interpretation is visibility overrides fact its mounted on my 'cargo' and so move it from truck to camper.
On our camper you cant even see what color the plate is if left on truck when camper is mounted. I'm of the opinion folks who work in law enforcement have enough to deal with without trying to figure out where I'm from if they were curious. The fact that I've been doing this for the last 16 years and have never been questioned or cited only means that. Probably could have had it mounted on a propeller on camper roof with same results.

[mkirsch]

You go ahead and try making a photocopy of your license plate and see how far you get. You're making a fake plate. Counterfeit license plates are illegal even if the legit ones are right there on the truck.

Common sense has nothing to do with it. The litmus test is if the cop has to expend extra effort, no matter how little, to verify your license plate. You want to avoid notice, not attract it, and a paper license plate will attract attention.

[DWeikert]

Rubiranch wrote:

tattoobob wrote:
Go to Staples or similar and copy your plate with updated sticker and then have them laminate it use that on the truck camper leave the original plate on your truck

This what I've been thinking of doing myself.

Next time I see a Highway Patrolman eating lunch and I go over to thank him and let him know I appreciate what he does I'll ask him what the rules are here in Utah. 🙂

I could care less if I get pulled over.

I believe this would fall under the category of "forgery" and would probably result in a higher fine than obstructed plates, good intentions or not.