More on Unloaded Vehicle Weight

[GrandpaKip]

Lots of responses concerning UVW start with "UVW means nothing..." Or something to that effect. I have to disagree. I am researching for a newer camper. I know the floorplan we want. I also know what my present camper weighs, empty and loaded. So, while I am perusing the net, looking at all the offerings, I make note of the UVW to see if it fits with what I am comfortable towing. I also check the yellow sticker when looking at them in person.
If you understand the relationship between the UVW, Gross Vehicle Weight, and the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, the UVW is very useful in determining possibilities and eliminating others.

My 2 cents. (Probably a nickel now)

[2012Coleman]

Oaklevel makes a good point - whatever numbers you are using to calculate capacities are only a guess. If your guess doesn't give you significant comfort from using the gross numbers, then time to get to the scales.

And yes, total newbies DO think that their 1500 with P tires and a magical tow capacity of 9000 lbs can tow a 31 ft TT weighing 8500 lbs - dry. If you don't think so, then you don't read the forums here.

And no matter how much experience you have, you cant "see" what stuff you put inside your TT weighs.

[Oaklevel]

For me or in my case ccc or dry weight is useless I could have easily overloaded my truck if I started there.................. My campers brochure weight was a dry weight of 9200 lbs, the yellow sticker states its dry weight is 9800 lbs........... Gross Weight is 14500 so I want a truck that can tow at least 14500 lbs not just 11800 or 12800............ oh yea the cat scales say my trailer actually weighs 13800 loaded ready to go camping.............

Bottom line is do your homework....... or you may need a bigger truck as the blue lights of the weight police will be after you 🙂

[Terryallan]

Gdetrailer wrote:

GrandpaKip wrote:
Well, some of you got my point that UVW is not a useless figure. I cannot imagine even the noobiest noob thinking that they won't add anything in a camper and increase the weight. But if they are that dense, nothing anyone says to them will make sense. If I only go by gross weight rating, there are a bunch of campers that exceed my truck's rating. However, when the CCC is 2000 to 2500, or even 3000 lbs, I know I am never going to load that much in a 20-23 foot camper.
I'm probably up to a dime, now.

You sir have identified my point..

Many trailers which do have very large CCC ratings often well exceed the TOW VEHICLES Cargo rating and not only that the COMBINATION rating.

In some states you might have the "luxury" to do this with a CAMPING TRAILER but some states (like mine) CAN not only fine you but make you park your rig along the road until you correct the combination weight FOR NON RV TRAILERS like flatbed and utility trailers..

Additionally towing flat bed and utility trailers in my state exceeding 17,001 lbs GVWR COMBINATION you now are REQUIRED to have your HEALTH CARD (IE yearly doctor signed health card), YOU ARE REQUIRED TO HAVE THREE TRIANGLES OR FLAIRS AND YOU ARE REQUIRED TO HAVE ONE FIRE EXTINGUISHER.

You ARE more than welcome to justify your choice, but I myself will error on the safer side..

I am not so vain that I must prove my manliness or how macho I am by oversizing my RV for the tow vehicle I have.

[Yquote]

Uh you just admitted that you are sizing for a non RV. And the LAWS you refer to have NOTHING to do with a RV.

IF I don't load my TT to the GVWR, Then the GVWR is pretty much a useless number for me.

BTW. I did weigh my trailer loaded ready to camp. Camp stove, 10 folding chairs, coolers, plates, pots pans, sheets, towels cloths, some food, folding tables and such. I added 600lb the UVW. And now it is even less, as some of the stuff we never used. So out it came. And I have no need to prove anything, other than I can read a scale, and do math

[Gdetrailer]

GrandpaKip wrote:
Well, some of you got my point that UVW is not a useless figure. I cannot imagine even the noobiest noob thinking that they won't add anything in a camper and increase the weight. But if they are that dense, nothing anyone says to them will make sense. If I only go by gross weight rating, there are a bunch of campers that exceed my truck's rating. However, when the CCC is 2000 to 2500, or even 3000 lbs, I know I am never going to load that much in a 20-23 foot camper.
I'm probably up to a dime, now.

You sir have identified my point..

Many trailers which do have very large CCC ratings often well exceed the TOW VEHICLES Cargo rating and not only that the COMBINATION rating.

In some states you might have the "luxury" to do this with a CAMPING TRAILER but some states (like mine) CAN not only fine you but make you park your rig along the road until you correct the combination weight FOR NON RV TRAILERS like flatbed and utility trailers..

Additionally towing flat bed and utility trailers in my state exceeding 17,001 lbs GVWR COMBINATION you now are REQUIRED to have your HEALTH CARD (IE yearly doctor signed health card), YOU ARE REQUIRED TO HAVE THREE TRIANGLES OR FLAIRS AND YOU ARE REQUIRED TO HAVE ONE FIRE EXTINGUISHER.

You ARE more than welcome to justify your choice, but I myself will error on the safer side..

I am not so vain that I must prove my manliness or how macho I am by oversizing my RV for the tow vehicle I have.

Yes, using the GVWR as a sizing tool you WILL "eliminate" some choices in trailer size.. But what you lose in the larger trailers you gain so extra capacity and capability of your vehicle.. Makes for a nicer tow when you are not having to count potato chips..

Sorry if you don't like it.. If you must have that larger trailer then it is pretty much a no brainer to consider a better equipped vehicle for the job..

Yeah, my 3/4 ton truck has 3415 lbs of cargo capacity and of that capacity I am only using 1,200 of that capacity including passengers.. The result is I do not need WD at all to carry my trailer and I am not having to decide which child must stay home..

[GrandpaKip]

Well, some of you got my point that UVW is not a useless figure. I cannot imagine even the noobiest noob thinking that they won't add anything in a camper and increase the weight. But if they are that dense, nothing anyone says to them will make sense. If I only go by gross weight rating, there are a bunch of campers that exceed my truck's rating. However, when the CCC is 2000 to 2500, or even 3000 lbs, I know I am never going to load that much in a 20-23 foot camper.
I'm probably up to a dime, now.

[dodge_guy]

On my trailer the UVW in the brochure was only different by about 150 lbs. the only things that were options on my trailer were the "sunroom" option (bigger windows and 3 skylights) and a spare tire. everything else was standard!

Like the OP said, if you know how to do it using the "dry weight" is the way to go. I could easily say "no one tows around a trailer at it`s full GVWR!) my trailer has a 4100lb CCC. I still have 2k lbs left before I hit that. so it can work both ways.

Bottom line do you homework and know what you are doing! for a family of 4 or 5 I say add 1200-1500lbs to the dry weight. if you can`t tow this then you need to look at a different trailer!

[LarryJM]

Gdetrailer wrote:

GrandpaKip wrote:
Lots of responses concerning UVW start with "UVW means nothing..." Or something to that effect. I have to disagree. I am researching for a newer camper. I know the floorplan we want. I also know what my present camper weighs, empty and loaded. So, while I am perusing the net, looking at all the offerings, I make note of the UVW to see if it fits with what I am comfortable towing. I also check the yellow sticker when looking at them in person.
If you understand the relationship between the UVW, Gross Vehicle Weight, and the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, the UVW is very useful in determining possibilities and eliminating others.

My 2 cents. (Probably a nickel now)

While YOU may know to the exact ounce of what you put into your trailer many do not.

The problem I see with using UVW as your determining point of what trailer you can buy is many see it as a way to buy HEAVIER than they should for their vehicle.

Pretty much ignoring the fact that once they add in several passengers plus some gear to the vehicle AND add a lot of silly stuff like food, drinks, pots pans, dishes silverware, clothing bedding then comes all the entertainment stuff they are under the TRAILERS GVWR but hey have now exceeded the CARGO weight of their VEHICLE..

Also not listed on the UVW is the battery, propane tanks and propane.. That is nearly 200 lbs of weight completely ignored..

Yeah, I get it, there are trailers out there with huge cargo weight ratings which exceed 2K or 3K lbs but not all of them have such large cargo weights.

Also folks like to justify a questionable combination by using the UVW, near as I can tell it is the majority of thinking among the RV community.. Sure, you can hook a 32ft 8K lb UVW trailer to your 1/2 ton.. But by the time you fill it up and account for the battery, propane and all your gear you are now up to 9.9K lbs and just ounces away from being over your vehicles cargo weight.

Seems to me instead of having to decide just how many potato chips you are able to take with you it is nicer to use a simple rule of GVWR of the trailer as the max you can possible tow..

You see, that gives you HEADROOM to work with instead of having to decide which of your children must stay home...

YES, my view of this is unpopular and I EXPECT a lot of hateful responses to my view, but it NEEDS to be said..

I will not consider buying a trailer using strictly the unladen weight.. NO ONE EVER TOWS EMPTY..

You WILL PUT STUFF IN THE TRAILER.

I would like to meet the one single person that buys a 32ft trailer and does not have clothing, food, pots and pans, entertainment stuff when they go camping.. That would make for one heck of a boring camping trip..

I completely agree with your assessment and you have correctly IMO pointed out the one "wild card" and that being those few trailers with really excessive CCCs in the 2.5K to 3K and above along with some THs where even Lucy couldn't take enough rocks to reach their GVWR.

I have to laugh when I read a lot of these threads where folks are trying to estimate what they will add and almost without exception are not just being overly optimistic, but unrealistic .... like in only adding 800 lbs for a family of 4. I've been doing this for over 40 years and have raised two childern from birth to college RVing in a TT including multiple coast to coast trips with the TT being our only home for up to 2 months at a time. My experience is things add up quickly and many trailers have just too much great room to not take that little extra that you did w/o the last trip out. I've almost never heard of a TT getting lighter over time only heavier.

Larry

[atreis]

Yes, each trailer is weighed at the factory, and that weight includes all factory options, as well as propane. Look for the yellow sticker. The UVW in the brochure is usually an estimate or average that doesn't include factory options - the yellow sticker has the real deal.

My current trailer has a reasonable CCC and using the GVWR as a max is reasonable. My old trailer had a ridiculously high GVWR - with the CCC being almost equal to the UVW. In that case, using the GVWR would lead one to think the small lightweight trailer could only be towed by a 1/2 ton which was ludicrous. CCC varies quite a lot. Use the yellow sticker plus an estimate of loading as a guide and after getting a trailer, load up, weigh it and adjust from there as needed.

[Terryallan]

rbpru wrote:
My biggest concern would be, did they weigh each TT or estimate its weight from the blueprints.:h

According to what I saw when buying mine. they weigh each one. My TT weighed in dry at 4811lbs. The one sitting beside of it just like it Weighed dry 4830lbs. So there was a 19lb difference.

[Gdetrailer]

And so goes the war..

[rbpru]

My biggest concern would be, did they weigh each TT or estimate its weight from the blueprints.:h

[mtofell1]

Old-Biscuit wrote:
IF the truck/tow vehicle can't handle the full GVWR of trailer/camper then one is too small or the other is too big

I also don't totally agree. Just because a TT has a given GVWR doesn't mean it WILL carry that much weight the way certain person uses it. As an example, my TT has a GWVR of around 12,000# but weighs only about 7000# w/o anything in it (except batteries, propane tanks, etc, etc)

So just because my TT "could" carry that much weight I HAVE to buy a truck to handle it? Nope. The way I use mine it weighs about 8500# and I couldn't imagine what I'd have to bring with me to get anywhere close to what the TT could handle.

A TT GVWR is based on axle rating, frame size and a whole bunch of other stuff. Sometimes, they are just overbuilt.

And, to the OP's point, the UVW is MUCH more useful than the GVWR for the reasons mentioned. Yes, manufacturers understate UVW but the yellow stickers have done great at keeping them honest. I think most reasonably intelligent people are capable of weighing what they put in their own TT. If they can't even do that what makes someone think they would magically stop when reaching the max GVWR?

[OutdoorPhotogra]

Old-Biscuit wrote:
IF the truck/tow vehicle can't handle the full GVWR of trailer/camper then one is too small or the other is too big

I still say depends. I'm looking at TTs with 2,000 to 2,500 cargo limits - 5,000-5,500 dry with GVWR's of 6500-7500. With my F150, 6,500 is my limit due to TW. Good on other numbers. If I have a true 5,500 dry weight, I have plenty room to work with using 6,500 as my limit. I will upgrade to a 3/4 ton in a couple years and then be able to go to the 7,500.

Until I upgrade my truck, I probably won't travel with water. No big deal since I haven't done that with my PUP for 7 years. I'll also be on the East Coast for a few years and not dealing with West Coast grades.

Now, on your point. I know my trucks limits and use a scale. Most don't and use the dry weight to lie to themselves.

[Terryallan]

Me. I go by the Yellow Sticker weight. It tells me what the trailer weighs as it sits on the lot in front of you, including battery, and propane tanks. If the yellow sticker tell me the trailer is close to or over my tow capacity. No need to look at it. But if it is 2000lb UNDER my tow capacity. Good to go.

Unless the GVWR is only 1000lb over the yellow sticker, The GVWR is a totally useless number for me. I will never load a TT, or 5er to a GVWR that is 2000lb over the yellow sticker.