Payload / Can they tow it question - 2009 F150

[fickman]

I'm trying to help a family member in their TT selection.

Truck for discussion:
2009 F150 XLT CrewCab 6.5' bed 2WD 5.4L V8 3.55 rear w/ 6-speed transmission
GVWR: 7,100 lbs.
Tow rating: ~9,500 lbs.
GCWR: 13,000 lbs.

A family member has the above truck. It has an ARE camper shell, spray-in bed liner, scooter lift, and scooter. All told, with his wife, him, and the scooter, the truck weighted 6,650 lbs. That leaves just under 500 lbs. available payload for tongue weight and anything else they pack in the truck.

The thing is, he's got plenty of more room on his axle ratings (maybe 500 lbs. per). I haven't checked tire ratings yet, they're the same p-rated Michelin tires that came on it.

Most towing would be in Texas, Oklahoma, and maybe Arkansas. . . generally short trips. They're looking at campers with dry weights from 4,100 lbs. to 5,300 lbs. I've advised to estimate +1,200 above that as a camping weight and 12% for tongue weight.

I'm a stickler for ratings, but it does seem that payload is the one number even the "weight police" don't mind pushing a little.

Questions:
1. Would you feel safe getting right up to or a little over this payload as long as you're well under axle and tire ratings?

2. Is this a candidate for air bags?

3. How would adding a leaf spring in the rear effect it? Would you still use the axles as the main restriction?

4. Any other ideas? This is a classic case of having the TV before the TT, but a new TV isn't an option right now.

Thanks for your help!

*Edited to add engine size

[jus2shy]

Yep, your VIN sticker on the door should have all the numbers for the axles and such. It should also have the rear axle code. You should also have a tire inflation sticker in the door jam that should note the allowed payload for that vehicle as it was fitted from the factory. Then you have to subtract whatever accessories have been installed since. With the 3.55 gears, I'd assume standard tow package vs. Max Tow. Good thing they have the 5.4 though, makes a good bit more power and torque over the 4.6.

[fickman]

Regardless of package, the door sticker should still be specific to the truck and reliable for the ratings printed on it, right?

[nipster]

If it was max tow, it would have 3.73 rear axle and a 5.4 engine

[fickman]

jus2shy wrote:
The dead giveaways for Max-Tow packages are the dumbo mirrors (which I actually really miss when compared to RAM's tow mirrors) and the 3.73 rear axle (at least these were part of the package in 2010). Only reason why I no longer own my Ford is because I was overloading it a bit with my weekend projects and the RV's we liked tended to have tongue weights right at 1,000 lbs or we were looking into 5th wheels.

Also, another member noted 3850 and 4050 axles. They're right, 4050 was the rear axle weight rating of my F-150. I no longer can walk outside and view the sticker so I was trying to work as best as I could from memory.

I updated the OP.

They have the 5.4L V8 and the manually-extending vertical tow mirrors.

[jus2shy]

rhagfo wrote:

goducks10 wrote:

rhagfo wrote:
Jus2shy's reply is very good covered all but two items.
#1. based on a post the other day current 7,700# GVWR F150's have a 3,750# front axle and a 4,050# rear for a total of 7,800# of capacity.
Given that 7,800 - 6,650 = 1,150, keep in mind that the rear axle is still only 4,050# rated, so you really only have about 900# to play with going by axles.

Doesn't Ford have a 3850lb axle also? I thought depending on GVWR that they came with either 3850 or 4050lb axles. Except for the 8200lb GVW @4800.

I wasn't sure of that, but minus another 200#

And I forgot the #2
#2 With 3.55's what size engine do you have? If a smaller engine with the 3.55 it will not move well.

The dead giveaways for Max-Tow packages are the dumbo mirrors (which I actually really miss when compared to RAM's tow mirrors) and the 3.73 rear axle (at least these were part of the package in 2010). Only reason why I no longer own my Ford is because I was overloading it a bit with my weekend projects and the RV's we liked tended to have tongue weights right at 1,000 lbs or we were looking into 5th wheels.

Also, another member noted 3850 and 4050 axles. They're right, 4050 was the rear axle weight rating of my F-150. I no longer can walk outside and view the sticker so I was trying to work as best as I could from memory.

[rhagfo]

goducks10 wrote:

rhagfo wrote:
Jus2shy's reply is very good covered all but two items.
#1. based on a post the other day current 7,700# GVWR F150's have a 3,750# front axle and a 4,050# rear for a total of 7,800# of capacity.
Given that 7,800 - 6,650 = 1,150, keep in mind that the rear axle is still only 4,050# rated, so you really only have about 900# to play with going by axles.

Doesn't Ford have a 3850lb axle also? I thought depending on GVWR that they came with either 3850 or 4050lb axles. Except for the 8200lb GVW @4800.

I wasn't sure of that, but minus another 200#

And I forgot the #2
#2 With 3.55's what size engine do you have? If a smaller engine with the 3.55 it will not move well.

[fickman]

agesilaus wrote:
Air bags do -not- increase the payload of a vehicle. They may improve the ride but the same weight (plus the weight of the airbag system) is transmitted to the axles.

Thank you.

jus2shy wrote:
I owned a 2010 F-150 Crew Cab 6.5 bed and 5.4 with 3.73 gears and 4x4. My GVWR was 7,700 lbs. Sounds like he doesn't have the max tow package which gives you the upgraded cooling system package. I'm unsure if the regular tow package has the same cooling system upgrades, that's something you'd want to make sure of since you live in a generally warm area of the country. You can usually punch in the VIN of your truck in this web page http://services.forddirect.fordvehicles.com/inventory/WindowSticker.pdf?vin=1FT8W3BT3DEB19230

just change the VIN number after the "=" sign. This will give you a breakdown of what the truck is equipped with.

As for 1. The limitation on my max tow truck was actually the rims. Each rim was rated at only 2,100 lbs. The "P" rated tires were rated at 2,400 lbs a piece roughly. So I only have 4,200 lbs of capacity at each axle. However, there's a rag that noted a capacity of 4,500 lbs for the axle, so the rims were not limiting the axle by much

2. Air bags don't add capacity, they help level the load of your vehicle though so you're not dragging your rear end around.

3. For 3, it's the same as 2. I'll note again that in my case, it was my wheel rims being rated at 2,100 lbs a piece. The 9.75 axle (if your truck has that) can actually handle a little more, right around 4,500 lbs (can't remember, but some 4-wheeler mag did a comparison build between the 9.75 and the Dana 60). I can't say much for the other supporting bits though like the leaf pack and bolts that hold the rear suspension together.

Personally, as long as you aren't exceeding the axle weight of your rig, I'd be fine with it. Only thing to do is scale the setup and make sure you aren't exceeding the axle ratings.

This is helpful. I'll try to get the VIN. As you can imagine, I'm competing against every RV salesperson who says, "Oh, you won't have a problem with that truck" and every person at their Ford dealership that answers the phone and gives partial advice.

I've explained that I have no agenda to keep them from getting the TT they want - I just want them to be safe and happy, but I won't drop the conversation because I feel they are being misled by so many other people who have their ear.

He says he has the Max Tow package, but I don't know for sure. He did not have the integrated brake controller but got it added after the sale (if that's an indicator of which package they likely had). I'm not a Ford guy, so I'm playing catch up in trying to help.

goducks10 wrote:

rhagfo wrote:
Jus2shy's reply is very good covered all but two items.
#1. based on a post the other day current 7,700# GVWR F150's have a 3,750# front axle and a 4,050# rear for a total of 7,800# of capacity.
Given that 7,800 - 6,650 = 1,150, keep in mind that the rear axle is still only 4,050# rated, so you really only have about 900# to play with going by axles.

Doesn't Ford have a 3850lb axle also? I thought depending on GVWR that they came with either 3850 or 4050lb axles. Except for the 8200lb GVW @4800.

I can get the exact axle ratings next week some time.

[fickman]

Old-Biscuit wrote:
Go weigh YOUR truck camp ready....you, passengers and all stuff you would take with you in truck.

With YOUR weight numbers then you can find the right TT that is within your trucks ratings and actual payload capacity.

Anything else is just a 'guesstimate'.....SWAG (Scientific Wild A** Guess)

My truck has nothing to do with it. I have over 3,400 lbs. of available payload in my 3500 van.

If you see the OP, we did weigh the family members' truck in question. It was 6,650 lbs.

HappyKayakers wrote:
This sounds suspiciously like a case of "I'm gonna do it anyway, just hope a few folks agree".

Maybe I failed to communicate the situation??? I am advising somebody else. I am coming from the "lets weigh, measure, calculate, and know everything scientifically without guess work" angle.

I've been advising them for over 9 months and educating them on the ratings and explaining they have to abide by whichever measurement ends up being the most restrictive one. I've been pushing them to weigh their Expedition (they want a trailer they can tow with either vehicle) and I thought its payload would be the limitation. We were shocked to weigh both and see that the Expedition had 2x the available payload as truck did.

I've given them all the normal advice I've learned in ten years of being around this forum, especially that this is the concern we see at least 1x/week for people who bought their TV first. It's not ideal. I know about the people who try to justify pushing their limits. If they were close on anything else, this post wouldn't be here.

That said:
- They would not get close to tow rating
- They would not get close to axle ratings
- They would not get close to GCWR
- I will investigate the tires

But on the truck, with a 500 lbs. loaded tongue weight, they'll be right at the max for GVWR.

I'm asking about the additional leaf spring b/c I've often participated in discussions here about this essentially being the difference between a 2500 vs. 3500 SRW.

[goducks10]

rhagfo wrote:
Jus2shy's reply is very good covered all but two items.
#1. based on a post the other day current 7,700# GVWR F150's have a 3,750# front axle and a 4,050# rear for a total of 7,800# of capacity.
Given that 7,800 - 6,650 = 1,150, keep in mind that the rear axle is still only 4,050# rated, so you really only have about 900# to play with going by axles.

Doesn't Ford have a 3850lb axle also? I thought depending on GVWR that they came with either 3850 or 4050lb axles. Except for the 8200lb GVW @4800.

[rhagfo]

Jus2shy's reply is very good covered all but two items.
#1. based on a post the other day current 7,700# GVWR F150's have a 3,750# front axle and a 4,050# rear for a total of 7,800# of capacity.
Given that 7,800 - 6,650 = 1,150, keep in mind that the rear axle is still only 4,050# rated, so you really only have about 900# to play with going by axles.

[jus2shy]

I owned a 2010 F-150 Crew Cab 6.5 bed and 5.4 with 3.73 gears and 4x4. My GVWR was 7,700 lbs. Sounds like he doesn't have the max tow package which gives you the upgraded cooling system package. I'm unsure if the regular tow package has the same cooling system upgrades, that's something you'd want to make sure of since you live in a generally warm area of the country. You can usually punch in the VIN of your truck in this web page http://services.forddirect.fordvehicles.com/inventory/WindowSticker.pdf?vin=1FT8W3BT3DEB19230

just change the VIN number after the "=" sign. This will give you a breakdown of what the truck is equipped with.

As for 1. The limitation on my max tow truck was actually the rims. Each rim was rated at only 2,100 lbs. The "P" rated tires were rated at 2,400 lbs a piece roughly. So I only have 4,200 lbs of capacity at each axle. However, there's a rag that noted a capacity of 4,500 lbs for the axle, so the rims were not limiting the axle by much

2. Air bags don't add capacity, they help level the load of your vehicle though so you're not dragging your rear end around.

3. For 3, it's the same as 2. I'll note again that in my case, it was my wheel rims being rated at 2,100 lbs a piece. The 9.75 axle (if your truck has that) can actually handle a little more, right around 4,500 lbs (can't remember, but some 4-wheeler mag did a comparison build between the 9.75 and the Dana 60). I can't say much for the other supporting bits though like the leaf pack and bolts that hold the rear suspension together.

Personally, as long as you aren't exceeding the axle weight of your rig, I'd be fine with it. Only thing to do is scale the setup and make sure you aren't exceeding the axle ratings.

[HappyKayakers]

This sounds suspiciously like a case of "I'm gonna do it anyway, just hope a few folks agree".

[agesilaus]

Air bags do -not- increase the payload of a vehicle. They may improve the ride but the same weight (plus the weight of the airbag system) is transmitted to the axles.

[Old-Biscuit]

Go weigh YOUR truck camp ready....you, passengers and all stuff you would take with you in truck.

With YOUR weight numbers then you can find the right TT that is within your trucks ratings and actual payload capacity.

Anything else is just a 'guesstimate'.....SWAG (Scientific Wild A** Guess)